Author Topic: US Army Trivia  (Read 4606 times)

Offline Gripmaker

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US Army Trivia
« on: November 01, 2008, 07:11:54 pm »

Ran across an interesting fact today and thought I would pose it as a question and see who (if anyone) can come up with the right answer.

What do John T. Shanks and  Joseph Wheeler have in common and who was responsible?

OK, St. George, here is your chance to shine!

Offline Dr. Bob

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 01:00:25 am »
Wheeler is easy.  He graduate 19th from the USMA in 1854 and served in the 1st Dragoons and Mounted Rifles.  Resigned in 1861 and became a Lt. Gen. CSA through ACW.  Served in Congress and became a Maj. Gen. of Volunteers in 1898 and Brig. Gen. US in 1900.  Military service taken from Heitman's Historical Register, 1903 [U of Ill. 1963 edition.]

Mr Google was little help on John T. Shanks and there is only a John Peter Clever Shanks in Heitman's. and he served only during the ACW in  the US Army.

I have no resource material about the states in rebellion! ::) ;D
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Offline Major Matt Lewis

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 05:46:09 am »
Both were played by  Gary Bussy?
;D ;D
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Offline Gripmaker

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 07:51:43 am »

Dr. Bob,  You are headed in the right direction so keep looking.

Major Matt,  I see that you are your normal laughable, affable self this morning.

Offline Major 2

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 01:20:34 pm »
Both breveted B.G of US Vol.... Shanks for his service to save Chicago from a Camp Douglas uprising.

Both were Confederate soldiers ...Shanks from Texas, and a Texas Ranger
 Fightin Joe Wheeler from Alabama

Both served in the US government and held public office after the War between the States,

as to " ...who was responsible? "...I'm not sure to what your refur  :-\

do I get a cookie ?  ;D
when planets align...do the deal !

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:58:29 pm »

Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 01:24:05 pm »
Roger, I think you oughta get 2 cookies.
SASS#47185  RO I   ROII       NCOWS#2244  NCOWS Life #186  BOLD#393 GAF#318 SCORRS#1 SBSS#1485  WASA#666  RATS#111  BOSS#155  Storm#241 Henry 1860#92 W3G#1000  Warthog AZSA #28  American Plainsmen Society #69  Masonic Cowboy Shootist  Hiram's Rangers#18  FOP  Lt. Col  Grand Army of The Frontier, Life Member CAF
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Offline Major 2

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2008, 01:27:16 pm »
naugh ..they will just go to my butt  ;D
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Gripmaker

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2008, 06:24:02 pm »
Major 2,  You are derned close but some of the "facts" are slightly askew.

Both were commissioned Confederate officers, Shanks from Texas (no real proof of his being a Texas Ranger but he may have had "contact" with them on an occasion or two), and Wheeler from Alabama. Shanks was the first Confederate officer commissioned by Presidential edict into the US Army (for his help in a mutiny incident at Camp Douglas in Chicago), Wheeler was the second (during Spanish American War), Shanks to that of Captain of Co. I, 6th US Volounteers (note he was commissioned, not breveted) and Wheeler to Major General of US Volounteers. Wheeler was then commissioned to rank of Brigadier General of
regular Army troops later.  Both were placed into US service by a special edict of the then President of the United Sates, Lincoln for Shanks and whoever was President at the time for Wheeler. Shanks left the Army on Oct. 12, 1866, still only a Captain while Wheeler left as a Brigadier General after 1900 (not sure of official date). These are the only two former Confederate officers I have found who were commisioned US Officers in spite of established Army regulations.

So...General US Scout, I really can be a US LTC after serving as a Confederate Capt. (with your permission of course). YEEEEHAAAAW!

More info on Shanks can be found in Dee Brown's book, THE GALVANIZED YANKEES by Bison Books

Offline Gripmaker

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2008, 06:27:21 pm »
Major 2: If those cookies are just going to go to your butt,then please accept a, "Well done, soldier!" and go have a steak and beer (on your wife).

Offline Major 2

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2008, 07:30:05 pm »
"... These are the only two former Confederate officers I have found who were commissioned US Officers in spite of established Army regulations. "

Here is a third ;)
Major General Matthew C Butler 

Not to be argumentative  but to clarify.. Shanks was comissioned as a Capt. and According to Mark M. Boatner III
Lt. Col. United States Army Historian and Author states Shanks was Brevetted Brig. Gen. of USV.
when planets align...do the deal !

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #10 on: Today at 05:58:29 pm »

Offline US Scout

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2008, 09:14:23 pm »
I believe Fitzhugh Lee also qualifies. 

Can't remember the details - brain housing group if full of sand at the moment.

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Offline US Scout

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2008, 09:18:31 pm »
So...General US Scout, I really can be a US LTC after serving as a Confederate Capt. (with your permission of course). YEEEEHAAAAW!

I never said you couldn't.  The GAF is much more open minded about these things than the US Army in the 19th century.

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Offline Zouave Officer

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2008, 09:24:58 pm »
Actually there were alot more than two Former Confederates Commissioned back into the service. I have a listing of some of them on my Sons of Spanish American War Veterans Camp Website. At present the list I have consists of over 300+ veterans of the Civil War who served again in 1898. Only two former Confederates were offically put back into the U.S. Regular Army, that being Fitzhugh Lee and Joseph Wheeler who were both made Brigadier Generals, United States Army, following their U.S. Volunteer service.

Among the Confederates who served again in the Span. Am. as General Officers of United States Volunteers are:

Major General Matthew C. Butler, U.S. Volunteers, former Major General, Provisional Army Confederate States
Major General Fitzhugh Lee, U.S. Volunteers, former Major General, Provisional Army Confederate States
Major General Joseph Wheeler, U.S. Volunteers, former Major General, Provisional Army Confederate States
Brigadier General John B. Castleman, U.S. Volunteers, former Major, 2nd Kentucky Vol. Cav. Rgt.
Brigadier General Henry T. Douglass, U.S. Volunteers, this is possibly former Colonel, Confederate States Engineer Corps
Brigadier General William W. Gordon, U.S. Volunteers, former Captain & Assistant Adjutant General, Confederate States Army
Brigadier General Thomas L. Rosser, U.S. Volunteer, former Major General, Provisional Army Confederate States
Brigadier General William Calvin Oates, U.S. Volunteers, former Colonel, 15th Alabama Vol. Inf. Rgt.
Brigadier General James R. Waites, U.S. Volunteers, former 1st Lieutenant, South Carolina Artillery

The list of U.S. Volunteer Officers who were former Confederates is much, much longer. The above is only those that I know for a Fact were commissioned as General Officers of United States Volunteers.

Sorry, I know I'm a know it all, ha ha.  ;D
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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 06:24:52 am »
I never said you couldn't.  The GAF is much more open minded about these things than the US Army in the 19th century.

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But, Lt. Col. Little, I wouldn't be counting on stars like Shanks and Wheeler got.  ;)
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Offline Gripmaker

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 10:47:41 pm »
Col. Pitsptr,  The only stars I am interested in come out on a clear night at Fort Hartsuff and I expect to see them again next year.
                   The only time it is that clear around here is when the electricity goes out on a cold clear night in December. Not at
                    all interested in that.

                    BTW, has Steffan made up any more GAF membership medals? Looking forward to receiving mine. Got the medal
                     you sent today. Thanks so much for forwarding it.

Offline US Scout

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 01:33:10 am »
Actually there were alot more than two Former Confederates Commissioned back into the service. I have a listing of some of them on my Sons of Spanish American War Veterans Camp Website. At present the list I have consists of over 300+ veterans of the Civil War who served again in 1898. Only two former Confederates were offically put back into the U.S. Regular Army, that being Fitzhugh Lee and Joseph Wheeler who were both made Brigadier Generals, United States Army, following their U.S. Volunteer service.

A very interesting list.  Thanks for providing it.

I believe the law was such that former Confederates were not allowed to join the Regular Army as an officer, and former Confederate Officers were not allowed to join at all, but that this was eased a bit during the Spanish-American War because the government wanted Southerners to join - and commissioning former Confederate leaders into the Volunteers was an incentive for enlistments.  This is also why we now see a large number of Army bases in the South named after Confederate generals - to provide incentive for enlistments (I doubt many Southerners wanted to serve at a Ft Sherman in Georgia).

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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 08:50:26 am »
                    BTW, has Steffan made up any more GAF membership medals? Looking forward to receiving mine. Got the medal
                     you sent today.
I talked to Steff last week. He had cast a batch the day before and they hadn't turned out. I think he said the mould broke(?)
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Offline Zouave Officer

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 07:48:05 pm »
A very interesting list.  Thanks for providing it.

I believe the law was such that former Confederates were not allowed to join the Regular Army as an officer, and former Confederate Officers were not allowed to join at all, but that this was eased a bit during the Spanish-American War because the government wanted Southerners to join - and commissioning former Confederate leaders into the Volunteers was an incentive for enlistments.  This is also why we now see a large number of Army bases in the South named after Confederate generals - to provide incentive for enlistments (I doubt many Southerners wanted to serve at a Ft Sherman in Georgia).

US Scout
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Yes I believe that you are probably right on that account, not too many folks would like to see a Fort Grant or Camp Sherman, or for those fast ones of us a Fort Jefferson C. Davis  (Not note the middle inital).  ;D
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- Charles Devens Jr. Camp No. 10, Sons of Union Veterans.
- Micah J. Jenkins Camp No. 164, Sons of Spanish American War Veterans.

"There’s no use dodging. You will be hit when your body and bullets are at the same place at the same time….
Captain Henry J. Reilly, Battery F, 5th U.S. Artillery, 1898.

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Re: US Army Trivia
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 01:10:49 am »
Quote from: Zouave Officer

Yes I believe that you are probably right on that account, not too many folks would like to see a Fort Grant or Camp Sherman, or for those fast ones of us a Fort Jefferson C. Davis  (Not note the middle inital).  ;D

Interestingly enough, we have a Jeff Davis on our team here in the desert.  He was not aware of General Jeffeson C. Davis until I told him last week. 

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