Author Topic: pattern of 1874 holster  (Read 7407 times)

Offline Black River Johnny

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pattern of 1874 holster
« on: June 18, 2008, 05:55:02 pm »
i am looking for a supplier of the 1874 hoslter, the only one i can find is this uk one and it is to expensive http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/IWaccout.html

every other sitesi have been to have 1878 or later patterns - do you guys know any other sources or my other question is what is another holster style for Indian war era that is not a full flap.

Offline Sagebrush Burns

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 07:54:15 pm »
You will want to check out Trailrider Products.  Trailrider is a GAF member and often posts here.  He also has a web site with plenty of information.  His work is top quality and very well researched and correct, and his prices are reasonable. 

Offline Dr. Bob

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 01:08:14 am »
BRJ,

Try Carrico Leather.  He makes great military holsters and can get you taken care of.  About a 6 week delivery as of Monday when I ordered an 1878-79 holster pictured on page 26 of Packing Iron.  I'm guessing that the one that you want is on page 24.  I don't think that it will be a problem.  His prices are quite reasonable.

     http://www.carricoleather.com/
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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 01:17:32 am »
Sir;

The design prameters for the 1874 holster( I have used them) are in Cavalry Equipment 1874,"Ordnance Memoranda 18" and it's availiable from S&S firearms (refer to the links page on the GAF web site).

Hope this helps.

V/R

1st. Sgt. 8)

Offline Old Top

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 02:05:44 am »
Black River Johnny,

Looking at the 1874 and the 1881 holsters, I beleive that your could take an 1881 and carefully cut the flap to make it look like an 1874, does not look to be that difficult.

Old Top
I only shoot to support my reloading habit.

Offline Black Powder

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 06:47:06 pm »
Try Carrico Leather.  He makes great military holsters and can get you taken care of.  About a 6 week delivery as of Monday when I ordered an 1878-79 holster pictured on page 26 of Packing Iron.  I'm guessing that the one that you want is on page 24.  I don't think that it will be a problem.  His prices are quite reasonable.

     http://www.carricoleather.com/

I second that recommendation.  Actually was gonna first-it, but was slow on the draw.

I ordered mine before he got swamped with that movie prop order, but that's OK.  He did not charge my credit card until date of shipment, wouldn't even take a deposit.  And today, he sent me this pic, so I think it's on its way.  That David, he's such a tease...

Sorry for steppin' on your thread, but I's excited!  :P :P :P

So contact Carrico, like the good doctor prescribed.

BP

« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 07:01:11 pm by Black Powder »
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Offline Black River Johnny

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2008, 04:33:54 am »
Thanks for the leads, I have been to Carricos web page and he does not have one. But I called him anyway, he cannot make one. The 1874 has a swivel and he dont have those. so the search goes on. I actually will probably go with a full flap or a slim jim after all.

Offline Trailrider

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2008, 01:33:19 pm »
i am looking for a supplier of the 1874 hoslter, the only one i can find is this uk one and it is to expensive http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/IWaccout.html

every other sitesi have been to have 1878 or later patterns - do you guys know any other sources or my other question is what is another holster style for Indian war era that is not a full flap.

Sir:

I have the honor to reply to your communication.  As issued, the Pattern 1874 holster had the Hoffman swivel.  There were two versions of the swivel, the first permitting the holster to swing around 360 degrees.  This allowed the holster be inadvertantly swung upside down.  If the flap was unbuttoned, the trooper lost the gun.  The second version had a limited swing of about 45 degrees.  That eliminated the holster swinging upside down.  The Pattern 1874 holster was shaped to handle the Colt's Single Action Army revolver only.  Therefore, when it was found the 1874 pattern would not accomodate the older S&W American revolvers.  The Ordnance Dept. then reshaped the holster body to handle both guns, resulting in the Pattern of 1875, which also had the limited swing Hoffman swivel.  But the problems were not over with this design!  The metal tabs that held the swivel and holster body to the belt loop had a tendency to come loose dropping the holstered gun to the ground!  Since company commanders were financially responsible for equipment losses, many, if not most, had their saddler sergeants rivet and/or stitch the holster to the belt loop.  Since the belt loops were only intended to fit the sword or waist belts, the introduction of the wider prairie belts and Mills belts made for practical problems for the troops, in them having to wear two belts...one for the pistol and the wider one for their .45-70 cartridges.  As a result, many company commanders had the saddlers remove the Hoffman swivels altogether and put on larger, fixed belt loops.  While NOT officially approved by Ordnance at that time, there is nothing to indicate that any of these officers were reprimanded for these field modifications. 

About 1877 or so, Ordnance did approve modification of the full flaps on various existing holsters to a 3/4 flap with a rounded end and separate closure tab.  Later, when they ran out of CW holsters to modify, they started making new ones, termed the Pattern of 1879.  These would fit the Colt's and the newer S&W Schofields, but the use of the closure tab added to the cost of manufacture.  Ordnance then went to the one-piece flap like the '75 pattern, but with a wider end with two holes, one hole for the Colt's and one for the S&W.  This became the Pattern of 1881.  Like the previous patterns, the belt loop was only big enough to handle the 1-7/8" wide belts.  The loops were attached rigidly to the holster body.   Eventually, Ordnance got around to making the loops bigger and bigger, in three different sizes, the last large enough to handle the widest Mills belts.

Now, like some of the other manufacturers, I do NOT make holsters with the Hoffman swivel.  Just too expensive to make, and the fragility of the attachment is something I don't care to foist on my customers.  Therefore, I make a Pattern 1875 (which will handle both the Colt's and the replica S&W Schofield replicas).  This is not on my website, but is shown in my catalog as an insert.  Price is now US$88.00 for the unlined version (which was the way they were originally).  Linings for the inside of the body are $32.50 extra.  The flaps are not lined.

This is NOT a solicitation for an order, but rather information. 

I remain,
Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
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Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF

Offline Ten Wolves Fiveshooter

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 09:42:42 pm »
I second that recommendation.  Actually was gonna first-it, but was slow on the draw.

I ordered mine before he got swamped with that movie prop order, but that's OK.  He did not charge my credit card until date of shipment, wouldn't even take a deposit.  And today, he sent me this pic, so I think it's on its way.  That David, he's such a tease...

Sorry for steppin' on your thread, but I's excited!  :P :P :P

So contact Carrico, like the good doctor prescribed.

BP

 Howdy BP

       Looks like your rig is just around the corner, what a beautiful rig Pard, David did a great job on this for you , it looks to be a rig you can be proud of for years to come , I'm happy for you , maybe now you can get out there and show your stuff , and shoot them six guns. ::) :o 8)

                                                         tEN wOLVES  ;) :D ;D


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Offline Black Powder

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2008, 11:04:58 pm »
Thank you, 10WFS.  Can't wait.

Trailrider, that was excellent.  Two things don't cease to amaze me here: 1) how much indepth knowledge people here have and 2), how generous they are in sharing it.

Hat's off to ya'.

BP

« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 11:07:47 pm by Black Powder »
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Offline Steel Horse Bailey

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2008, 12:29:56 am »
As you can see from his post, Trailrider KNOWS these holsters ... and more than most.

He'll take care of you VERY WELL!
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Offline Dr. Bob

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2008, 01:06:12 am »
It would appear that you will have to pay a lot to get the holster with the pivot feature.  Less for a holster with the proper outer appearance and non rotating.  Ain't reality a bummer! :(
Regards, Doc
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Offline St. George

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2008, 08:57:42 am »
Were you to buy an original, un-modified holster - you'd pay a helluva lot more, but you'd have an anomaly if your intent was to collect that military equipment that saw use during the Indian Wars.

The modified ones are the ones that were issued and saw actual use on the Frontier - the un-modified ones I've had were never issued, and were released from one of the Depots after a long storage.

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Offline Trailrider

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2008, 11:15:18 am »
"Trailrider, that was excellent.  Two things don't cease to amaze me here: 1) how much indepth knowledge people here have and 2), how generous they are in sharing it."

 ;)Well, ya can't take knowledge with ya! Might as well impart it to others.   ;D  Does this indicate I have too much time on my hands?

St. George,

I'm not so sure that NO holsters equipped with the Hoffman swivel were issued to the troops in the field.  But they sure proved totally unsuitable for use, as witness the letters from several officers to Ordnance.  (See Edward Scott Meadows' book, "U.S. Holsters & Pistol Cartridge Boxes")  Therefore, most either got modified at the various frontier posts, or perhaps (can't find any references to a recall) ordered turned in for re-issue in modified form. IIRC, there were modified ones issued from Ordnance. The Hoffman swivel was then eliminated in subsequent designs.  In point of fact, I have NEVER seen an original offered for sale at collectors' gun shows, or in any of the ads.  I couldn't afford them anyway!  :(

Your obdt servant,
Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
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Dept. of the Platte, GAF

Offline St. George

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2008, 12:42:15 pm »
That they 'were' issued is a fact - but as has been mentioned - they proved to be a faulty design.

The attributable ones (marked with property markings) that I've encountered were all modified.

As to the high prices...

Wasn't always so - and back when I was in High School - a large costume shop went out of business - putting all the uniforms, weaponry and costuming on the market.

There were QM-issued bales of Cavalry shell jackets and upright boxes of sabers - along with a whole host of related gear from the Civil War - interspersed with equipment from the Indian Wars and the Spanish-American War.

There were even a couple of 'long' racks of WWI German Uhlan outfits, as well - perfect for outfitting a Prussian villain.

Most all of it 'went West' to the big, established dealers who were satisfying the then-new demand for Old West collectors then appearing on that horizon - but a lot of  stuff didn't - including a lot of the leather and insignia and such.

I bought what I could - kept some, sold/traded the rest over time when the newer collectors started throwing money at it.

Good days, those...

Today - Good Luck in finding clean, original examples, since the prices have skyrocketed beyond belief, and those who bought them are still too young for their collections to come on the market through the normal methods...

On the other hand - that accumulation had been bled for over 40 years by a local collector/dealer who had an 'in' with the owner.

It wasn't like entering Ali Baba's Cave by a long shot, but it was damned impressive...

Good Luck!

Vaya,

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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: pattern of 1874 holster
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2008, 04:29:29 pm »
BR Johnny
I got a flyer from John Sutton at Republic MO saying among other things that he has for sale one "M1872 Holster for Colt army revolver. Includes 360 degree loop swivel and cleaning rod: $50.00" He states that... "unless otherwise listed, all items are in new condition. All leather items are made by myself with oak tanned leather and waxed linen thread."  Knowing John it's good stuff.

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