Just recently watched Geronimo: An American Legend

[Major Matt Lewis]

And my question is, how authentic are the uniforms?  The soldiers are wearing 1876 coats with 1884 trousers.  So, didn't the Army come out with an 1884 Canvas blouse to go with the 1884 Canvas trousers?  Why would they wear an 1876 blouse with the 1884 trousers?

[Zouave Officer]

I haven't seen the movie lately so I can't really recall anything about it in particular, but if I had to wager a guess, I'd say that some of the Soldiers probaly did mix and match in the fashion the Officers would have. I also think it would have depended upon how well supplied your post Quartermaster was.

But I'm going of a theory and don't know for fact, just basing it off the assumption that the Quartermaster, like the paymaster, is always a day late and a dollar short. 

[Major Matt Lewis]

I am rewatching now and Gatewood is wearing nonregulation trousers.  I am paying close attention to the leather and accutraments.  Good stuff...

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[Zouave Officer]

I reckon I'm going to need to find me a copy of this and watch it, we used to have it on VHS, however I do not know where it has disappered to.

[Trailrider]

"Uniforms" in the Frontier Army in the field were very loosey-goosey. Most of the troops and the officers saved their best regulation uniforms for garrison and dress.  As a result, you could see virtually anything (up until the khakie stuff came out), including stuff left over fromt the War.  By 1886, most of the pre-1872 clothing was probably used up.

As to leather, there are a number of pictures in various books showing troops wearing anything from regulation issue (probably Pattern 1881 with the 3rd version enlarged loops for wear on the Mills belts) to civilian open top, Mexican loop holsters and "ranger" style belts!  The open-top civilian holsters, as well as ones designed by several officers (including Capt. Fechet, Commanding Co. G, 8th Cav.), were fabricated by saddlers and issued to the troopers.  Some, like Capt. Fechet's were submitted to the Ordnance Dept., but none were adopted.  These were particularly used in the Southwest, where the weather wasn't so inclement in the winter.

[River City John]

The Army's adoption, in the field in the warmer climates, of non-regulation canvas clothing goes back quite a bit before this. Had it's origins in canvas clothing intended for stable fatigue duty. Particularly trowsers as they were the most susceptible to wear and tear by hard campaigning.

From Campaign Clothing: Field Uniforms of the Indian War Army 1872-1886 by Lee A. Rutledge, 1997

". . .but Captain John G. Bourke, 3rd Cavalry, documented their field use about 1873. Captain Bourke had this to say in On The Border With Crook (1892):
"At Camp Verde (Arizona Territory) we found assembled nearly all of (General George) Crook's command, and a dirtier, greasier, more uncouth-looking set of officers and men it would be hard to encounter anywhere. Dust, soot, rain, and grime had made their impress upon the canvas suits which each had donned. . . ." Presumably, their outfits were Army-issue stable frocks and overalls.
 . . Their use led directly to adoption of canvas fatigues in the 1880's, the canvas combat uniform of 1898 and, ultimately, to modern-day military field outfits."
"Without a doubt, the common practice of wearing canvas work garments on campaign had the greatest impact; within a few years only canvas field garments were issued."

[Major 2]

As an aside Riley Flinn was the historical adviser ( he also played Capt Ragsdale), he was also a good friend and we work along side on several shoots.
Riley had a great knowledge of the era, and the statement made "Uniforms" in the Frontier Army in the field were very loosey-goosey". is quite correct.
I provided Riley with non-reg several holsters for "Buffalo Sholdiers"
He made every attenpt within his budget to get it right....

My friend Riley Flynn passed several years ago... Geronimo: An American Legend was one of his last films.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

... And I enjoy it, every time I re-watch it.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

You caught this on AMC, didn't you? I watched part of it myself this week as I haven't seen it since it first came out. Man, what a long movie it is! As for the uniforms, that stuff was researched and made by the Craig Nannos of "Sentry Post," an outfit that makes reproduction stuff only for big named museums and movie companies. Hey do not have any website. Normal re-enactors can't afford their stuff. A buddy of mine checked once. Trust me, they wanted WAY more than any other vendor. That being said, they generally do very good work and in my opinion, wouldn't go to the trouble of making something that wasn't well documented. Sometimes though, the movie costumes folks mess up what was made for them, like what was done for "Rough Riders," on TNT (added officer shoulder boards on wool shirts, horrible modern metal insignias on many uniforms of 'other that principal actors', etc). 

[Dr. Bob]

The Sentry Post is no longer in business.  Mr. Nanos has taken employment with the DoD History dept.  and closed his business.  Sorry, but I don't remember where exactly he went.

[mrbig6045]

when gatewood shoot the indian off the horse,was that a model 76 he was useing,ill have to watch that scene again

[Major Matt Lewis]

Captain B,

You are right about catching a peice of Geronimo on AMC, but I have the move so I fired it up in the ol' dvd player and watched it twice yesterday....

Mr Big,

That may have been a 76.  Do 76's have octagon barrels?  Kind of looked like a Border Rifle to me.  Now, here is what I was thinking...."Why did Gatewood carry the Civilian holster?"  I think it was to accomodate the .44-40 shells his border rifle used.  If he had of had a Centenial Model, he could have just used the web belt/1881 Holster that every other trooper had.  So, I figured that the civilian rig allowed him to carry the .44-4 shells.

Just a though.

[The Avocado Kid]

It can also come down to the simple fact the director liked the look of those pants better...I have worked on a few films and what the director says goes even if it's not peroid correct....it can and does happen.

[Pitspitr]

The thing that caught my eye was the way the enlisted man struts up to General Crook swinging his arms like a pump jack to deliver the telegram about the outbreak at Cibique.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

It can also come down to the simple fact the director liked the look of those pants better...I have worked on a few films and what the director says goes even if it's not peroid correct....it can and does happen.

Darn right it does. It's the main reason I don't work on films anymore...

[Guns Garrett]

Some of the accoutrements and most of the horse equipment for "Geronimo:..." was supplied by Dave Carrico of Carrico Leather, out of Edna, KS (about 15 miles from me).  He also supplied much of what was used in the mini-series "Into The West".
His entire operation is set up in the loft of his barn.  The lower part of his barn is used for... well, it's a barn.

[Major Matt Lewis]

I talked to Carrico and he is putting some stuff together for me... I am looking forward to it.

[Black Powder]

I talked to Carrico and he is putting some stuff together for me... I am looking forward to it.

Me too!  I feel like a father in the waiting room, waiting for the doc to come out: "Congratulations.  It's a Slim Jim and a double loop!"

Thought the movie was excellent, btw.

BP