Dragoon Gunsmith Conversion to .45

[Pomona Pete]

Here are the pics I hope.











If these pictures arrive on the forum like they are supposed too I will answer andy questions that anyone might have.

[Grapeshot]

Tell me more about them as I have a pair of 1st Model Colt Dragoons, (Uberti Copies), I've been thinking about doing this to.

[Pomona Pete]

Grapeshot:

        These are 3rd models with consecutive serial numbers.  I shortened the barrels 1.50 inches to get the balance to the rear a bit.  My son "Crow Scout" suggested that I use the brass accents on the pistols and they do look good that way.
       
         I have a machine shop at home and I also have a cnc mill so making the parts really wasn't much of a job.  It takes longer to write the programs than it does to make the parts.

         It would probably be easier if you ask me the questions you would like help with to keep me from rambling on forever.

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[Major 2]

They look great , have you fired them yet ?
What final finish will you do, grip etc ?

[Pomona Pete]

Major 2

          I haven't fired them yet.  I still need to cut the sights, set the case head clearance, and make the firing pins.  I have been trying to get the neighbor to shoot them the first fime but he is refusing.  They  are .45 Long Colt and I think that they are going to be great.  The .45LC case leaves about .500 of the cylinder unfilled.  Those pistols must of had a serious recoil when loaded to the max.

          As far as the grips go I think that I am going to take the finish off and oil finish them.  I have the formula for making a varnish that used tobacco that leaves the handled areas a nice dark color.  I really do have a lot of work to do before I take them out in the back for a shooting session. 

          My son and I have been working on putting No 1 Richards conversions on his two navies so I need to get those done too. 

[Crow Scout]

A couple of things he forgot to mention:

The loading gate is going to be remade.  He likes the one he has but I talked him into making a new one out of brass.  The ejector knob will also be remade out of brass.  I think it will look really sharp ones it's all done.  

I'm really hoping he goes with a highly polished blued and polished brass but once he gets a picture in his head it's hard to get him to change directions......... hmmmm ..........   sounds familiar.  

What happened to doing something like a fake ivory grip with some custom scrimshaw work?  Again a good reason to polish these babies up, IMO.

[Major 2]

Major 2

 "....I have been trying to get the neighbor to shoot them the first time but he is refusing...." 

      

I ain't scaret... send them down to me .. I'll shoot them, may take a while though  years maybe 

[Black River Smith]

How do you keep the gate open and closed?  I do not see a spring like the Open top.  Do you have some type of internal spring?

Thank you,

[65bsaA65]

Sir, what type of firing pin are you planning on using?  A floating pin in the conversion ring/backing plate or modifying the hammer?  Did you retain the original ratchet configuration, or recut and retime the peice?  As one often hears disparaging remarks about "soft" Italian steel in modern clone revolvers, the metallurgy has to be light years ahead of the iron they were using in the 1840s/50s.  So, what Major said.  I'm up for test-firing your project, but I figure a lot of other guys have already volunteered
You do Good Work!  Very pretty.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Pamona Pete...
Beautiful craftsmanship.........one suggestion though...you might not want to use too many brass accents....it gets to look like the modern  "Gangsta" guns.............Probably should only use the brass in the areas where it was used in the originals.....grip frame ...trigger guard.

Bill

[River City John]

I would leave that cylinder gate in steel for strength.

[Flint]

Why do I not see pictures? can you repost them?

[Crow Scout]

Flint,  The pics are there    Hmmmm....... try right clicking the red x (I'm assuming that's all you are seeing) and then left clicking on "show picture" from the menu.  Otherwise go to hunt101.com and search "dragoon" and click on the pictures posted by Pomona Pete.  Hopefully that will work for you. 

Oh and if you have a slow connection it may take a while for the pics to show up. 

[Pomona Pete]

Hi guys:

     I was out working cows today so i didn't get to read your posts until a minute ago.  There was a question about the firing pins, I am gong to use a rebounding pin (with spring) as soon as I get the time to grind the pins.  The loading gate is held in position by an internal spring that lies under the round lower pvot of the gate.  The spring is made out of .010 feeler gage stock.  It is held by a screw that is on a vertical edge of the recoil shield.  If you would like to see how they appear when finished if you go the the thread on the 51, 61 navy conversions you can see a picture of it.
     You may notice that the revolvers were cut for a shoulder stock so the gate cound not be kept in place by the recoil shield as is most common so I drilled and tapped the pin that the gate rotates on and put a binding head screw in it to keep the gate in position.  It really worked out great.
     On the brass issue I am still deciding on things. I might just make duplicate parts and see which one I like the best. LOL Actually, I see a lot of things that I want to change already.  I do appreciate the thought on using strictly steel though, I do like the oringinal look.
      Ottowa Creek Bill.........Thanks you very much for the kind words about my work.  I have been a machinist all my life and that is what I still do for a living.  I teach drafting, programming and machine tool technologies at a career center.  It is getting very hard to get the kids interested in machining because they figure it requires too much math!  I keep trying to teach them though.
      There was a question on the rachets... when the cylinders are machined down for the conversion there  is enough of the ratchet left to use as they are.  I am thinking about making new cylinders and if I do they will have a bit larger ratchet because the original ones have a counterbore in the cylinder pin hole that serves no purpose.  By eliminating that counterbore the ratchet will be about double the width as it is now.
     

[will52100]

Beutiful work, though I'd stick to steel for the loading gate and other accents, as I think most orginals were.  Though I do like the brass loading leaver filler block.  Next question is how do they shoot?!:)  I've been thinking of converting a Dragoon, it sure would be unusual, and the 45 colt would be a real pleasure to shoot in that heavy of a gun.  Also one thing to think of is black powder fouling, it'll stain brass a nice patina a lot faster than blued or cased hardened steel.  And I wouldn't shoot anything but black powder in a conversion where I used the orginal cylinder.  If I made a new cylinder from arsenal grade steel that might be a differant story.

As for the original charge, I don't have a Dragoon at present, but do have a pair of walkers and they are very mild recoiling, even with full 60 grain charges.  I believe the Dragoon was reduced to a max of 50 grains with round ball, and 40 with conicle bullet.  About equal to the 45 colt military loading.

Don't know about the counter bore, but from what I've seen of original conversions on 51's and 60 armyies the original ratchet teeth were completely removed and the thickest part was remachined into ratchet teeth and then the single straight hand was replaced with a longer "F" hand to engage the new ratchet teeth.  Although R&D and Kirst use the same methoud as you and it works.