Author Topic: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.  (Read 22530 times)

Offline US Scout

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2007, 08:09:50 AM »
In addition, we will allow participants in the Militia category, should they wish to do so, to wear an appropriate uniform in accordance with their firearms (suitably documented of course) so that they are competitive for the Brigade Champion award. 

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Offline Pony Racer

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2007, 03:52:49 PM »
Is the Mannlicher Berthier Carbine and rifle also acceptable?

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Offline Drydock

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2007, 10:27:10 PM »
I am familiar with the Mannlicher 86 straight pull, and the 88 commission rifle, from what period is the Berthier?  I does not show up in the millitary rifle page listed in the 1st entry in this thread.
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Offline Pony Racer

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2007, 10:39:35 PM »
After doing more research on the Berthier - I realize it was borne too late.

The design is 1907 and it was not fielded until 1915/16.

I almost purchased one today - but will now keep eye open on a Lebel instead.

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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2007, 09:56:52 AM »
MAA, Sgt. Drydock.
After reading your reply to Pony Racer's question I went back and re-read the list of approved rifles. I noticed that the "Trapdoor" officer's model is listed but not the long range model. Is that an oversight, or was the long range model intentionally left off the list?

When thinking about the "milspec" requirement it got me thinking about the various trapdoors I've owned over the years. When you say Milspec, how finicky are we being?

For instance if one had a very early serial # 73 that had a later model cleaning rod, or a late serial # rifle with an early '73 lock plate, or an '79 sight on a '73. All these parts are milspec and prior to the 1902 cutoff date but might be mismatched in terms of the serial #.

My concern is that while I could probably spot mismatched #'s & parts on a trapdoor, without an entire reference library at a shoot I probably couldn't spot them on other makes or models.

Of course, since you're coming to Ord next year I won't have to worry about that. I'll just detail you to check weapons. ;) ;D
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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #45 on: Today at 04:02:53 PM »

Offline Drydock

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2007, 08:53:40 PM »
Due to the nature of service, turn ins, and rebuilds, mismatched parts are common on most all Milspec weapons.  If it is an issue weapon of the era, and it is in military configuration, then it is acceptable.  Serial numbers, cartouches and inspector dates do not need to match.

The Long Range Model is very, VERY, rare, but it was an issue weapon in military configuration, and is quite legal.  There is not current reproduction, though Pedersoli makes a rough approximation, which would be entirely legal should you wish to use it. 

The only Trapdoor I can think of that could not be used as Milspec would be the handful of customs made for Freeman Bull for target shooting.
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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2007, 06:23:54 AM »
That's the way I'd have called it but I wanted to check with THE MAN. ;)

The Pedersoli copy was the one I was thinking of. A man woould have to be an idiot or not realize what he had to use an original Long Range to play with. (fewer than 130 made, $20,000+) And yes I also realize that the Pedersoli isn't a very good copy, I've had a chance to make a side by side comparison of mine to an original. When I bought it the plan was (IS) to replace both sights and take off the pistol grip and use it as an infantry rifle (which it is a decent copy of) in Living History demonstrations at Ft. Hartsuff. Hopefully by the next Muster I'll have had a chance to get the rear sight replaced with a standard rifle sight. Then if I ever want to use it for long range target work, I'll just put the pistol grip and the tang sight back on and slip a sight hood on it and I'm good to go.
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Offline Dusty Tagalon

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2007, 08:32:01 AM »
How about adding a class for youngsters. Maybe call it "Post Children", or "Commanders Kids". Shooting rifle only, single shot, lever or pump, 22 cal or larger.

Dusty

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2007, 09:27:24 AM »
How about adding a class for youngsters. Maybe call it "Post Children", or "Commanders Kids". Shooting rifle only, single shot, lever or pump, 22 cal or larger.

Great idea!  I  think we all recognize the ongoing need to encourage youth participation in the shooting sports.

As for the name ... "Army Brat"?   ::)  ;)   Or perhaps "Cadet", or some such more respectable name ....

In fact, if the lower age limit was kept fairly 'mature', I'd see no reason to preclude them from using a handgun (with supervision if deemed necessary.)  Or, have two youth divisions (e.g. 'Senior Cadet' - 12 and older, 'Junior Cadet' - under 12, or whatever) with the younger category using rifle only.

A picture of the top young shooter at our Fall two-day shoot held a few weeks ago ... 'Sassy Sam', now 13 years old I think, cute as a button and an excellent shot -


Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Drydock

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2007, 09:30:20 PM »
While I like this idea, it seems somwhat premature for an organization in its infantcy here.  I would suggest someone post a seperate thread discussing this idea, and see what we get.  For myself, I would limit it to single shot 22 rifles (The Savage/Stevens is in production, low priced and excellent) and 22 SA Revolvers.  I would think a Stevens SS with a Ruger Bearcat would be excellent. 

Perhaps I would suggest someone bring the above weapons to a match and set them up to the side to allow "Cadets" under supervision to try their hand.
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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #50 on: Today at 04:02:53 PM »

Offline Pitspitr

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2007, 08:18:46 AM »
We've made this available for several years for the postal shoot. To date we have not had any entries. That isn't to say that we shouldn't set up a category for youngsters, I think we should, we just haven't had any participation from them in the postal shoot.
Unfortunately, I can't find the regs for the youth part of the postal shoot right at the moment as I may have lost them in the last computer crash. I'll keep looking.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: BATTLE RIFLE
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2013, 03:44:15 PM »
Anyone have an idea what a Swedish Mountain uniform looks like?

Dusty
Here is a great site for most Swedish arms, and military organization;

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/sverige/art_history.htm

I can't see any mountain regiments but there are Jaeger units, equivalent to British rifle regiments.  I have seen Swedish uniform pictures but can't put my finger on them now.  A lot depends on defining your timeframe to search.

"Fältjägare or Jägare were formerly lightly armed sharpshooters. They were the first units to get uniforms in neutral colours."
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2013, 11:32:27 PM »
Dusty: What time-frame are you interested in?  Is this to possibly do up a uniform to go with a particular Swedish-issue rifle .... say one of the Rolling Blocks, or a Swedish Mauser?

It is a bit of a problem tracking down information on the Swedish military and their uniforms because Sweden was such a peaceful nation.  I gather that the Kingdom was not involved in any military conflicts at all between the end of their last war with Russia in 1808/09 and their involvement in a UN peacekeeping mission in the Congo in the 1960's!

This is a Swedish language site which may be of some help - this link goes specifically to his 19th Century Part 2 page covering 1840-1900, which is the era you'd want for GAF purposes
http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/uniformer_armen_18.htm#Vargeringen_/_Bev�ringen

Here are a few images I have gleaned from the site, with the somewhat puzzling Google translations of their Swedish captions (for what they may be worth.)  I haven't tried to translate anything else, but I get the impression that these uniform patterns were pretty standard for all Swedish infantry -


1. Uniform pattern in use 1860 to 1886, I gather -


Soldiers in infantry uniforms m/1860.


Soldiers in uniform m/1860 with hat m/1865, probably Jönköping Regiment. The soldier in the middle has hat m/1865 with mice plate and plume. On his left upper sleeve he wears a '. school sign.


2. Uniform pattern apparently in use 1886-1900 -


Uniform m/1886 and m/1865 cutting cap, ratings.  Note the yellow piping in the pants.  The soldier has an ammunition belt around his waist.


Screen Caps m/1865, ratings. The number 6 in the hat is company number.


Uniform m/1886 and m/1865 cutting cap, ratings. The collar can be seen the oblong button hole.  No. 9 on the shoulder flap represents Skaraborg Regiment.


Three soldiers in the infantry uniforms m/1886 with peaked cap m/1865-1899.


Soldier in uniform m/1886 with belt and peaked cap with mice plate and plume. The photograph was taken in a studio in Soderhamn as soldier belonging probably Hälsingland Regiment.
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline pony express

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2013, 08:27:16 AM »
Looks like a reasonable copy cpould be made from period US uniforms, but with changes to the piping and insignia, except for the hat. Some of the hats may need to be custom made.

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2013, 10:42:53 AM »
Although I had also found the following images when the above, was posted I didn't include them.  However, it now occurs to me that for an Era of Expansion impression .... say with a Swedish Mauser - this 1906 Pattern uniform would be be unique and impressive.  (Might be a bit harder to duplicate, however, especially the interesting "modern tricorn" hat ....)

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: GAF MILSPEC/BATTLE RIFLE STANDARDS.
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2013, 11:03:33 AM »
Trust Rattlesnake Jack to finds reams of stuff where others, like me, are left eating dust.

Just a thought;  Should there be a separate thread for research & standards for uniforms and accoutrements?  The flipside is that it all comes down to an overall impression.
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

 

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