Old time dyes: a How_to

[Massive]

I tried the wet version.  The result was basically not much change.  The roughest section greyed, but mostly it was unchanged.  I have a piece that needs drying out, and I will try that.  There may be less dilution by the water in the tea, if I let it dry first.  The tea may not be strong enough.  Health food stores sell tannic acid powder, and it can be used in a 5% solution for dying.  Apparently it is not really an acid, so it may not be harsh on the leather.  Not that it takes nasty amounts for dying anyway since the amounts present in wood naturally are enough for a deep black to develop.

[zaynexpetty]

Here's some instructions for some of the old time dyes  I'm working with these days:
1) Black: VINEGAR BLACK (aka Vinegaroon - these are original old formulas)
For giving color to the grain of leather there is no blacking that will at all compare with the well known vinegar black. This may be made in various ways. The simplest, and, without doubt, the best, is to procure shavings from an iron turner and cover them with pure cider vinegar; heat up and set aside for a week or two, then heat again and set in a cool place for two weeks; pour off the vinegar, allow it to stand for a few days, and draw off and cork up in bottles. This will keep for a long time, and, while producing a deep black on leather, will not stain the hands.
Another method is to cover iron scraps with sour beer, and allow them to stand for a month or more; then strain off the beer and bottle as before.
A third method is to boil sulphate of iron in vinegar; mix some brewer's yeast with beer and allow it to stand for twenty four hours, then skim off the yeast and add the vinegar.
 
Instead of iron shavings you can use steel wool. To use the steel wool burn off the oil first - I dip it in acetone and use a propane/blow torch and light it off in an old pan with a lid, just in case you need to put the flame out. Take all precautions and it will work fine. The only problem with steel wool is it often has copper and other metals in the "mix" which can sometimes add a greenish tint.
 
After the "dye" (actually it's a reagent) dries I then neutralize with a slurry of baking soda and room temp water, about a 1/2 cup baking soda to a quart of water. Then I let the leather dry until just damp and apply a light coat or two of oil (I generally use olive oil, Lexol, Conditioner, or Lexol non-greasy Neats Foot). When the "dye" first dries it may look bluish or grayish at first and sometimes a second coat is needed, but normally the neutralizing and oil will turn it black.
 
2) Brown: I use black walnut hulls (If they are not available locally - the fresh green hulls are best - you can buy them dried on line from various vendors - to find a vendor search for walnut dye, etc.) Put a pound or so of the crushed hulls in an old stocking and place in a pan of distilled water so that the water covers the walnut hulls about an inch. Cover it and simmer at a low boil for several hours and then let cool overnight - keep an eye on the water level. The next day boil again and let cool overnight. Again watch that the water level does not get too low, but you do want it to get fairly thick. Once it's cool drain off the liquid be sure to squeeze all of the liquid out of the bundled walnut hulls. Save the walnut hulls - hang them up to dry and you can use them a couple of times more. The liquid will go bad so either keep it frozen or add 3/4 of a cup of rubbing alcohol to a quart of the dye. This is the dye I used on the Slim Jim in the DVD. It will come out anywhere from a light brown/gray to a dark grayish brown before oiling (I use light olive oil a lot for oiling and then set it in the sun to darken) - the color will depend on the leather - every piece is different, how long you let it soak, and how strong the dye is.
 
I always do a test on a scrap of every new hide, I use only American tanned hides - mostly from Wickett & Craig. You can also mix the two dyes, which gave me a rusty/black on the pieces shown below.  I used a 60/40 mix of walnut to vinegaroon on the belt and a 75/25 on the holster:





And finally you can also use a thin wash of regular spirit dyes over any of the above to "adjust" the color..............

Great in-depth instructions.

I was actually wondering about using other products such as blackberries/blueberries/yellow onions/etc... basically any organic plant based product for natural leather dyes. I would like to know how to brew them up to extract the colors, and how to store them without the use of alcohol or any other chemical. I have read that you can freeze them, but I would prefer a method where that wasn't necessary, as the added time of unthawing the dyes on top of the time that it takes to make them would be a little TOO time consuming.

Thanks!

Zayne

[Tayylor]

Hi,

Lets say you are making a belt and using natural dye such as walnut, coffee, etc.  Do you bevel the edges, skive and punch holes first, so that those areas will be colored also?  I'm asking because I have dyed strips of leather and then beveled and the edge is much lighter that the outer parts of the leather.   

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[Cliff Fendley]

Yes, I completely finish the entire project and then dip it. Catch the moisture right and reburnish the edges as it is drying.

[Tayylor]

Yes, I completely finish the entire project and then dip it. Catch the moisture right and reburnish the edges as it is drying.

I usually leave the straps in the natural dye for 24 hours or more, for a deep rich color.  Would this make a difference?

[Fox Creek Kid]

Yes, I completely finish the entire project and then dip it...

Neophyte question:  after stitching?   

[Lucky R. K.]

Hey Kid, here is a pair of Slim Jims stained with walnut hull dye. They were completely finished and sewn before they were stained. The stain doesn't seem to affect the waxed thread.

Lucky

[Cliff Fendley]

Neophyte question:  after stitching?   

Yes, after stitching. Only thing I do after staining is reburnish edges.

[Trailrider]

I would definitely NOT use chrome-tanned leather on a holster! Although you may be able to seal the leather, especially the inside, you run the risk of the chemicals in the dye attacking the finish and the steel of the gun! Veg-tanned ONLY!

[1961MJS]

Here's some instructions for some of the old time dyes  I'm working with these days:
1) Black: VINEGAR BLACK (aka Vinegaroon -
 
After the "dye" (actually it's a reagent) dries I then neutralize with a slurry of baking soda and room temp water, about a 1/2 cup baking soda to a quart of water. Then I let the leather dry until just damp and apply a light coat or two of oil (I generally use olive oil, Lexol, Conditioner, or Lexol non-greasy Neats Foot). When the "dye" first dries it may look bluish or grayish at first and sometimes a second coat is needed, but normally the neutralizing and oil will turn it black.
 

Hi

Nolan says neutralize with a slurry of baking soda etc.  I've just put the leather in a Jar of Baking Soda and water right after removing from the Vinegaroon, and also just rinsed the leather in tap water.  Neither way seems leave any damage to the leather.  Is dunking the leather a viable option?  I would ASSUME that you then rinse the slurry off...

Later

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I dunk mine in the vinegaroon then again in the baking soda solution after it's nice and black. That said, I'm sure wiping the stuff on is just as effective.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

A slow dunk is fine, but no longer, baking soda will neutralize the dye, but it will also burn your leather if your leather is left too long in it, rinsing with fresh water after the baking soda dunk is the best way to ensure your leather is not harmed...


tEN wOLVES

[Cliff Fendley]

Yeah I don't leave the baking soda on hardly any time and get it rinsed.

[Johnny McCrae]

My usual procedure is to:

Leave the Holster or Belt in the Vineragoon for approx. 5-10 minutes
   Quick rinse with water
      Slosh around in a Baking Soda Slurry for approx. 3-5 minutes
         Rinse thoroughly with water
            let dry thoroughly then apply 2-3 coats of "pure" Neets Foot Oil followed by 2 coats of Skidmores

I can't really say that this is the perfect or exact method to use. I just got in the habit of doing this way and have had no problems.

[1961MJS]

Thanks, brewing a batch and I'm pretty sure its done.  1 half gallon of white wine vinegar with 4 0000 steel wool in there.  The last two aren't dissolving any more.

Later

[Marshal Will Wingam]

It sounds like your batch is about done. I generally do mine with one of those large 0000 pads in a quart of white vinegar. The last little bit takes a while so it's probably close to the right amount. I generally clean the oils off the steel wool with a shot of carburetor cleaner first. I used to burn the oils off first but either way works fine.

John's method is a good one. I usually dunk the project in the baking soda solution until it stops bubbling, maybe a minute, and figure all the vinegar is neutralized. Then I rinse well.

[1961MJS]

It sounds like your batch is about done. I generally do mine with one of those large 0000 pads in a quart of white vinegar. The last little bit takes a while so it's probably close to the right amount. I generally clean the oils off the steel wool with a shot of carburetor cleaner first. I used to burn the oils off first but either way works fine.

John's method is a good one. I usually dunk the project in the baking soda solution until it stops bubbling, maybe a minute, and figure all the vinegar is neutralized. Then I rinse well.

Thanks

I washed the steel wool in alcohol.

Later

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks

I washed the steel wool in alcohol.

Later

That should be more than sufficient. I think one could just toss it in without doing anything and it would work. It might take a little longer to dissolve, though.

[1961MJS]

Hi, i tried a small piece of leather yesterday.  I didn't have baking soda, so I rinsed it and went to buy the baking soda.  The leather bubbled quite a while in the baking soda mix.  I rinsed the leather and its drying.

I found it interesting that the Vinegaroon was pretty clear until after it had leather in it,  now its black.

Later

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Hi, i tried a small piece of leather yesterday.  I didn't have baking soda, so I rinsed it and went to buy the baking soda.  The leather bubbled quite a while in the baking soda mix.  I rinsed the leather and its drying.

I found it interesting that the Vinegaroon was pretty clear until after it had leather in it,  now its black.

Later

I like the nice, rich black vinegaroon produces. No dye that I've found can match that.