Question, Are Short Stroked Rifles NCOWS Legal.

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Howdy! To all, I have been reading this thread off & on for a week now but would like to say a few words. First off the original question was short strokes legal in NCOWS? Read the by-laws & come up with your own interruption but as far as I know they are. I have observed NCOWS members are using them at NCOWS sanctioned matches. If they (NCOWS) change the rules so be it. It will be one more reason I will not rejoin NCOWS. To remind folks of the up coming rule changes in 06’, no shotgun slides, no double loop shotgun belts, no Ruger Bisly Vaquaro’s  & no fast draw rigs, which are different than bucsadarro rig or drop loop rig that have always been outlawed. There may be others not mentioned here but those are the main ones that affect competitive shooters. They (NCOWS) don’t want this to be a competition (that’s why the rule changes) about shooting but as who can be the most authentically dressed but that in it self is competition. I guess I just don’t under stand, I don’t really know anyone that plays Golf, Bowls, plays cards, horseshoes or any type of activity, who doesn’t want to try to do the best that they can within the rules of the game. I mean really, if you go bowling do you not try to roll strikes or roll gutter balls? (I guess if you roll to many strikes they will outlaw your 16 lb. ball). I can’t advise anyone on what they should do if they don’t agree with these new rules, but I along with others have voted with are feet & left NCOWS but that doesn’t mean I won’t shoot at NCOWS matches, that will be ignoring these new rules. I had to laugh when I read about how some of these same folks who wanted these changes, then complained about the poor turnout at the Nationals & that there were few or no vendors. As I remember someone saying, these changes may cause a loss in our members, so be it. Well they got what they wished for.  This is just my 2 cents worth & my opinion. Former NCOWS member 369# Wild Ben Raymond.

[RRio]

I guess I just don’t under stand, I don’t really know anyone that plays Golf, Bowls, plays cards, horseshoes or any type of activity, who doesn’t want to try to do the best that they can within the rules of the game. I mean really, if you go bowling do you not try to roll strikes or roll gutter balls?

Very true. But you know as well as I do, there are a small percentage whose lives revolve around winning and will do whatever they can, whether legal or not, to win.

I think I can understand the direction NCOWS is going, although hard to put into words without making a speach. I, for one, have no problem with that direction. It seems a bit refreshing from the wham-bam-thank you-ma'am course of SASS.

JMHO. 

[Lars]

#1. "To remind folks of the up coming rule changes in 06’, no shotgun slides, no double loop shotgun belts, no Ruger Bisly Vaquaro’s  & no fast draw rigs, which are different than bucsadarro rig or drop loop rig that have always been outlawed."

Joss,

I just visited the NOCWS By-Laws and find no mention of "no double loop shotgun belts" or of "no fast draw rigs, which are different than bucsadarro rig or drop loop rig that have always been outlawed", although "fast draw rigs" are on the unapproved list. Frankly, I have no idea what means "fast draw rig". Does the unapproved list need some editing, or...............?

Thanks,
Lars

[Advertising]

[Major Matt Lewis]

Lars,

You can ask The Marshal at the Muster.  I am unclear too.  Not worried, just unclear.

[Lars]

Thanks Major Lewis, I will ask about that, and most likely about other things, being on the same squad.

Joss,

Yes, I knew you were C&Ping Wild Ben. I also presumed that in doing so that you considered his statement to be valid.

Lars

[Surly Bob]

Wow.  Five more pages since I last posted and I had to catch up!  Some good points made but the "rules lawyers" put me to sleep every time.   

I think it is right to not lock such a discusssion as this.  For open forum's sake, we shouldn't be too quick to censure content when we lose stomach for what we started..(jab, jab, OCB    

I take exception to comments that NCOWS shooters are not competitors.  They are competitors by their very actions if you care to attend shoots and take notice.  As RO, I have to watch the shooters all the time but mostly for safety reasons.  I'm starting to see behavior patterns too.  How they move, what questions they ask, what trips them up on a stage, what they really enjoy, shooting styles, etc...
 
Sure, folks will tell you that they aren't out to win any awards but I have noticed that by their behavior, they are watching the scores closely.  They check the scores of their friends.  They cuss and joke when someone beats them by a fraction of a second.  They razz the guy all summer who shows up to shoot with his holsters tied down (hoping no one would notice).  It is a ton of fun and it is not a bad thing to be competitive! 

And they all gather around when someone like Steve Paulson is shooting.  It's actually fun to watch the guys who are competitive and really work at this game.  When someone does well, we don't cuss his short stroke kit or the fact that he spent thousands of dollars on slicking up his gun....we slap him on the back and let him know how proud we are of his hard work and dedication to the game! To be the best he can be!  Who doesn't dream of being faster than the fastest gun in the old west?  We have many people like that in this organization. 

You know, I think if Wild Bill or Wyatt Earp or Doc Holiday or Billy the Kid went head to head in an NCOWS shooting event, it would draw a crowd too! 

NCOWS also has a place for those who are students of history and authenticity.  It makes us unique and it is a ton of fun!  Beats SASS by a long way in my book.   I really look up to those of you who have put so much hard work and dedication into your persona.  Many of us (read Surly Bob here) don't have the skills that it takes to do really thorough historic research like this.  Perhaps someday I'll learn how but I'm really poor at that.  And I appreciate the history of our country during the 17 and 1800's....and that's why I'm here.   

I see both sides of this organization and I also realize we have to have BALANCE between authenticity and shooting.  Is it really so hard for everyone to acknowlege that?  It's like a marriage, there is give and take that has to happen or we will end up in divorce. Please keep this in mind as I don't think anyone really wants to see that happen.   An organization focussed only on authenticity or an organization focussed only on shooting sport would have me bored to tears!

Not that I really want people to post answers to the following questions but do you ever ask yourself how you are supporting NCOWS? 
I ask myself these questions at the end of each summer:
How many shoots did you participate in this year Surly Bob? 
How did you make the experience fun for others? 
What did you enjoy the most this year?
What didn't work out so well?
Did you make a new friend? 
Did you help make the new shooters feel welcome? 
How did you personally improve the club or the organization?
Did you get a little more authentic?
How did you personally improve YOURSELF?  (post sign...heavy construction area here)

I think NCOWS has bigger fish to fry than a few short stroke kits. 

[Surly Bob]

I still find it very disturbing that our congress would vote in change that is perceived to be damaging to the growth of the organization.  Did these changes bring in new membership or create a growth in the organization?  The phase-in was an attempt at blunting the blow but I'm not convinced the membership really agrees with all decisions made.   

I was taking SASS RO 1 and 2 in Cheyenne this year and the SASS governors made a point to mention that there was a fundamental difference between SASS and NCOWS.  NCOWS, by their estimation, is only concerned with authenticity whereas they felt that SASS is the ultimate cowboy fantasy game, allowing all areas of CAS shooting and was more versatile as an organization.  My personal feelings are that SASS is way too confusing with all it allows.  Most of the differences are highly visible to everyone and at first it feels like you are the kid in the proverbial candy store.  Later, you realizes something is missing.  SASS doesn't have the soul that NCOWS has. 

I also believe that there are many SASS members who are looking for more emphasis on authenticity (did you read Tex's comments in the last Cowboy Chronicle?)  Do you think Tex would join NCOWS?  Has the offer been made?  For a key figure from SASS to join our organization would probably pull some extra membership to us. 

However, I doubt that we would attract people from SASS if we didn't acknowlege their basic needs.  For example, wouldn't it be great if a gun manufacturer offerred a trade-in deal on your old non-period correct guns in favor of the more period correct version?  If we were a large organization like SASS, I think we might see more support like this from our vendors that would ultimately help NCOWS meet authenticity goals.  Rome wasn't built in a day. 

I personally think our NCOWS rules are appropriate and I will support the congressional process.  But there needs to be balance in the congress for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. 

[Wymore Wrangler]

The Judge Roy Bean told me at Cheyenne a couple years ago that both he and U.S. Grant were NCOWS members, I don't know if it's true or not, but it does speak well of us doesn't it...

[Surly Bob]

Amen to that!

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Howdy! Once more, when I posted earlier I was stating my dissatisfaction with the up coming rule(s) changes for 06’. I for one don’t know for what reasons we needed these changes other than the claims that they are not authentic. I believe the rules were just fine the way they were and I am not alone, talking with some of the other posse members, I have heard these posse’s may not follow the new up-coming rules! Because most likely would hurt their membership or shoot attendance. I believe Surly Bob hit the nail on the head when he said; there needs to be a balance between shooting & authenticity or the marriage will end in divorce. Joss Hoss; Yes I still have an interest in NCOWS because I have many friends that shoot in this organization. I would not be voicing my opinion here if I didn’t care but it’s the folks that are pushing the authenticity factor to far that it chokes the shooting competition aspect (FUN) of it out of the picture. In a nutshell, I don’t like the direction NCOWS is going. Again these are my opinions. Wild Ben Raymond     

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

Howdy,

There was mention of some research that was supposed to happen at the GAF muster regarding short strokes. Has anyone heard if it happened and if it did, what were the results?

Thanks,

AnnieLee

[Major Matt Lewis]

There was too much on the agenda to actually get to it, however, all who say my dreaded SS Border Rifle agreed that is shouldn't be an issue with it's 90 degree arc.  That would include Trap & Grizz off the top of my head.