nm vaquero bolt timing

[northwoods]

Does anyone out there know how to adjust the cylinder bolt timing on NM Vaqueros so the bolt does not drag on the cylinder but rises in the lead?

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

I've got a little bit of that problem two . there are some people out there with the answer, I'm sure , I have some ideas but I think I'll wait to see what the experts have to say. I'm going to keep my eyes on this subject and maybe we will both learn something .
                                        GOOD LUCK
                                                             Ten Wolves Five Shooter

[Capt. Augustus]

It is a design feature.

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[northwoods]

Yes, captain, it was designed to work that way. But  there exists a smart way to make this change, and it is done all the time. A weld bead or silver soldered steel peace  on the right part filed and polished will likely be part of the fix. Be good to know where and how much. A few threads down (nm vaquero soup-up) guy called 6- shooter 45 did this. Have not figured out how to PM on this forum yet!

northwoods

[West Fargo]

Howdy Pards,

  Well there is a little more then just silver soldering a piece onto the bolt, ya also need a new and longer plunger in the hammer, this helps keep the bolt down longer, plus a few other things ya have to do.

 I do this a lot, so if ya need to know just e-mail me. elgunfighter@quixnet.net

West Fargo

[northwoods]

I have parts on the way to make this change. Will report following installation.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy All

            Will I got some new parts from Wes Flowers of West Fargo a while back, to help stop the ring around the cylinder thing ,  and it's just been too hot to work in my work shop, untill now,I installed them in one the New Model Vaquero 45's today, and man what a difference, the timming bolt comes up right in the lead right in the tear drop, Yee- Ha no more ring around the cylinder, I polished the cylinder up to get the rings off, and it's like new, I also checked it with a range rod, and nothing had changed, the timming was still right on 
                     
                                    My Thanks to WES FLOWERS

                                TEN WOLVES FIVE SHOOTER

[Sixshooter_45]

Does anyone out there know how to adjust the cylinder bolt timing on NM Vaqueros so the bolt does not drag on the cylinder but rises in the lead?

I own a Vaquero and was tired of the cylinder ring.

You will need Dial or digital calipers and I used dykem, ( blue colored layout dye), a 3/32" drill bit, a vise and Dremmel to perform this task.

I modified my timing by making a new plunger for the hammer. I made it out of a 3/32 dia. titanium drill bit.

It wasn’t easy to get it right, but now the latch, (bolt); stays picked up and drops right in the beginning of the lead, perfect!

I used Iowegan's drawing, which made it better, but the latch was still dropping early so I modified it
worked properly in my Vaquero.

I made one for my brother to and it works just as good.
My mods were:
Dim.
A = .100
B = .300
C = cutoff @ .860, rough @ .840, finish = .835 - .837
D = .094
E = .058 or thicker if travel still works smoothly in hammer

I did this by using a vise and a Dremmel with a cutoff wheel and it almost looks like it was cut by a machine, no kidding, it just took lot's of practice.

If there is any locking up when cocking the hammer, lengthen B dim to .310 - .320 and this dim. ( mine worked with .300), has to be the inside dim. at the .058 depth and then the material at both ends are angled slightly to the outside edge. This is just clearance travel but the shorter the better for more strength so try .300 first.

The hard part, not really, after getting the pin to the rough .840 dim. take the Dremmel and a polishing wheel, pink in color, and work a radius where the hammer plunger rides the back of the latch from about 1/2" back from the tip to a little past center of the pin @ top. It needs this radius to allow it to ride on the back of the latch longer so it will keep the latch down longer.

Be careful not too take too much off of the top when making radius, remember it's only a few thousands, from rough cut of .840 to final dim of .835 - .837.

I used a cylindrical pink polishing stone approx. 1/2" long by approx. 1/4" dia., however it was worn in the middle, sort of like if you were to use it and keep wearing down the middle so that it tapered back up to full diameter which really worked out great for cutting a good smooth radius on the drill bit.

The final work is to use the same polishing stone and slightly bevel the other side of the drill bit at an angle, approx. 30° 180° around the pin, up to the sides of the radius lines. Just copy the chamfer on the original pin as this will help smooth out the travel of the pin in the hammer.

Ok, a little more work, lightly roll the radius on some 400 grit emery cloth with some oil by hand.

It took me many, (ok - about 10 drill bits), to get this method down right but the end result was well worth the effort and cost.

Also, polish the back and top of the latch where the hammer's plunger rides and I used pro gold, very lightly, on the same area as well as the newly cut radius and it is butter smooth.

One last thing, the material you take off creating the radius was critical to my success. When the latch dropped just in fron of the lead, (approx. 1/16), all I had to do was take a little more material creating a little bigger radius so that the latch would stay down just a little longer. It worked!

Sorry this was so long, but it is hard to explain in detail enough for someone to understand what I did to correct my timing.

Disclaimer: Any modification you choose to do to your or anyone else’s firearm is your responsibility as this is just for informational purposes only. I do not recommend the above instructions to be used to modify any firearm.

 
Good Luck!

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Sixshooter 45

              I think you did a great job explaning, I'm not as talented as you are in this area, never had machine shop in school, I don't think they offered it. but I grasp (I think ) what your saying. I called Wes Flowers , and he sent me two new parts, all made by him, they were a new modified hammer plunger, and a new modified cylinder latch, with the different radius on them, I put the new parts in myself, and did the necessary, polishing, on everything that needed it, and both guns came out great, no more ring around the cylinder, So my hats off to you to have the know how to do this on your own , I think thats pretty neat to be able to eyeball the problem , and go about fixing it, and making it work the way you want. As you can see theres no rings on these Vaquero's

                                                    Good job

                                                  Ten Wolves 

[Sixshooter_45]

Howdy Sixshooter 45

              I think you did a great job explaning, I'm not as talented as you are in this area, never had machine shop in school, I don't think they offered it. but I grasp (I think ) what your saying. I called Wes Flowers , and he sent me two new parts, all made by him, they were a new modified hammer plunger, and a new modified cylinder latch, with the different radius on them, I put the new parts in myself, and did the necessary, polishing, on everything that needed it, and both guns came out great, no more ring around the cylinder, So my hats off to you to have the know how to do this on your own , I think thats pretty neat to be able to eyeball the problem , and go about fixing it, and making it work the way you want. As you can see theres no rings on these Vaquero's

                                                    Good job

                                                  Ten Wolves 

Great, I'm glad you no longer have ring around the collar, ....er  "cylinder" that is, lol.

Thanks for the compliments, it wasn't easy but mine is unbelievably smooth when cocking the hammer back.

I also corrected the sear engagement eliminating any trigger creep, and added a trigger stop for overtravel, (it's set so there is only about .005 - .007 over travel), as I do not want a solid stop after trigger release or excessive over travel either.

I spent 20 hours on SBH hammer narrowing it a little and then radiused it down to make a much smoother transition to the sides of the hammer instead of the "stock" sharp drop off. It was a pain in the rear but it looks awesome.

I added a crescent ejector rod from Clements and a Belt Mountain base pin for the cylinder.

It has had the gunslinger trigger/tune job from Lees Gunsmithing. It included an 11 degree forcing cone, true rear barrel and face, springs, serrated the front sight, tune/time, (still had rings), etc., a stronger base pin latch spring and a 2 1/2 pound trigger pull with his springs that he makes, sweet! 

The halfmoon at the rear sight was blackened with flat black enamel and the very tip, (just the top 1/8 radius), of the front sight with gold enamel. You ought to see the sight picture.

I just recently put a .030 chamfer on the front of the cylinder for easier re-holstering, to lessen flame cutting and hopefully I will not get too much flashback now. I need to shoot it to find out.

I gave it a free spin pawl, , and corrected the timming, (NO rings).

It wears a pair of bookmatched feathered walnut made by caryc.

The barrel to cylinder alignment has been checked with a range rod and it's perfect.

There is very little cylinder end to end play and same with rotational play, it locks up solid with minimal play.

It also an accurate shooter, I wouldn't sell it for $1,000.00 cash!

Good Shooting! 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Thanks for the come back Sixshooter 45

               If you have a picture of your gun , I shure would like to see it ,is your Vaquero an old model or a new model ,and I heard some where that the NM Vaquero has a 11 degree forcing cone wright from the factory, I remember reading it some where , before I decided to buy a Vaquero, although I'm not able to find this in print now , to much information out there, and my personal hard drive gets messed up from time to time
               It sounds like you've done all there is to do, Now you need to just get out there and shoot it and see what kind of a tact driver, you've turned this gun into, let me know how it does, I love an accurate sixgun, if you know what I mean.
               It's been fun exchangeing information with you Sixshooter 45 , and I look forward to hear from you again.

                                                   Have a great week 

                                             Ten Wolves Five Shooter