Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BROW => Topic started by: Kent Shootwell on November 24, 2019, 12:25:30 PM
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Over the my years of interest in Sharps I've gathered a few parts, then I got a raw receiver and some parts given to me. Slow progress and building the log cabin has me at this point. I ordered a rifled barrel blank from Douglas with a six groove 1 in 20 twist 40 calibre then shaped it to a half octagon Hartford contour chambered for the 2 1/2" straight. I made the triggers for the trigger bar and now making the tumbler from scratch. The import tumbler goes back in the drawer. One of import hammers have to be welded and reshaped the other back in the drawer. Lots of slow hobby work to go. I'll run this tread if there's interest.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49117091136_598e394850_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hQiVYU)IMG_0460 (https://flic.kr/p/2hQiVYU) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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That's going to be quite a project! Looking forward to following it!
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Lots of slow hobby work to go. I'll run this tread if there's interest.
Yes, please!
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Now that looks like fun! Had a older friend build up his own Sharps many years ago, but he started with a complete original action. Good luck with it, we'll all be waiting for updates.
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There?s a stock and forearm hiding in that big block of walnut. You just need to find them. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
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Hello,
I built myself an early Sharps Sporting Rifle conversion from percussion to centerfire back in the mid 1990's.
I started the build using a Siles Sporting Rifle for the basic action, incorporating many original parts, including a near mint '59/'63 percussion lock plate.
I chose a 45-70 only because it was the easiest and cheapest round to go with for the time I built the rifle. A heavy 30" barrel, 1 in 16 twist (BP only). I have never had a chance to shoot it at anything greater than 600 m only because we had no greater distances where I live. It did great!
It was a fun build. Please keep us all updated.
My best,
Blair
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OK let the games begin.
Blair, you will have an idea of hurtles to this kind of project as I'm sure some of the others will to various degrees.
Today I spent some time organizing parts and tools to see what needed dealt with first. It took some digging before I found my #10x28 tap for working on the trigger bar. Back in the day every one seemed to want to make things with out any standard to follow. Unlucky for me Sharps didn't go with #10x24 threads like we might now. I laid out the stock shape on the wood to get the best grain and avoid a couple of flaws. Backing up to when this started a long time ago, I converted the lever from an original percussion to a cartridge type by adding a roller and the travel stop. This required a woodruff cutter to cut the groove and fabricating the stop. It's pinned in place with two pins as the originals were so look close to see them. The roller is on it's own pin. The breech block is an import so I welded it up to reshape it form the conversion looking one to a 1874 contour.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49124195661_9d3af8f134_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hQWkUH)IMG_0462 (https://flic.kr/p/2hQWkUH) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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The 1 in 20" twist is for light bullets. For long range work with heavy bullets you would be better of with 1 in 14" to 16", 420 grain or so bullets in a .40 cal.
kw
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The 1 in 20" twist is for light bullets. For long range work with heavy bullets you would be better of with 1 in 14" to 16", 420 grain or so bullets in a .40 cal.
kw
The 6 groove and twist was selected to match original Sharps rifles. I have a Shiloh 45 for longer range and a 50 for more power but no 40 calibre. Originals used 370 grain bullets and I figured that should kill deer 🦌.
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Finished the tumbler other then heat treat. Milling the recess for the fly had me sweating bullets but the Harbor Freight mill/drill worked well enough. Now I'll have a low quarter cock that suits me. The angle of the photo looks like it covers the quarter cock notch but a trial fitting shows that it works.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49134760317_a2c37a68fe_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRSupX)IMG_0466 (https://flic.kr/p/2hRSupX) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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The tumbler look's good Ken , going to enjoy following your Sharp's build . ,,,DT
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The trigger bar is machined from mild steel and the last piece to make is a small piece to complete it where the middle tang screw goes. I had already made the rear trigger of mild steel and the front trigger return spring from an old clock spring. Once finished the appropriate parts will be case color hardened.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49175145991_5524d0a99e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hVrtEF)IMG_0468 (https://flic.kr/p/2hVrtEF) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Nearly done with the metal parts. I've shaped the nose of the hammer with the bevel of a Harford 74 and contoured the lock plate. My Shilohs of coarse are styled as Bridgeport 74s and this is a good opportunity to make this rifle a bit unique. This lock also has the large bridle like a few Hartford guns have. I'll have to make a couple of escutcheons then start on the dreaded stock making.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49190561537_b489cd4e47_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hWNuaX)IMG_0469 (https://flic.kr/p/2hWNuaX) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Looking good, sir!
how do you plan to thread the receiever?
I have always been puzzled about getting the threads right so the barrel ends up with the sight on top.....
I fear I have not yet successfully managed a succesful interior thread on my lathe...
yhs
prof fumbles
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Inside threads can be exciting to run but after doing a few you'll not have much trouble. Left hand threads can add a bit more thinking to the process but are the same. Sharps didn't use left hand threads thankfully. This receiver had the barrel threads already cut. Had it not been done it would be done on the lathe. The set up I would do is with a face plate and a angle plate. It would be possible with just the face plate but that would require a long boring bar with the treading tool. I would fear to much vibration in that case. A fully equipped machine shop I'm sure would do this step on a mill but a basement hobbyist like me doesn't have that capability. The treads are 10 threads per inch square thread that I cut on the barrel before cutting the octagon. That way I can fit the barrel and establish the head space before there is a top or bottom.
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Kent,
Like I said my build was based off of a Siles Sporting Rifle. So it too already had threads cut into the receiver. I sent the complete receiver plus lock off to Sunny France to be barreled with a full length 30 in. octagon barrel.
Sunny asked me why I was using a '59/'63 lock? I told him it was because I wanted to build the earlies cartridge conversion Sharps I could get. Sunny asked if I wanted the "Hartford" style barrel? I said Yes, considering the 45-70 chambering I had requested.
There can be a lot of variation in these rifles. Perhaps even more so in the earlier conversions. Even more so if you are using mix of repro and original parts and pieces. They will not always interchange.
Research into them during this critical time period in very much in order.
My best,
Blair
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Thanks Kent & Blair-
If one uses V threads, can one use a tap&die?
cutting with a lathe, as you said, the setup is probably the hardest part... then "timing the threads" .
I think I'll practice on cheap black pipe to start...
yhs
prof marvel
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How did you get " Old Reliable" stamped on that barrel blank?
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Prof, A tap and die is useful for many applications. For barrel work the treads can be rather large and would be difficult to do a nice job with. Also I want the treads to be closely fit and of best finish so a lathe cut gives me the treads I require for a barrel. Practice is all way good!
Roy, I sent a buddy of mine a photo of the "Old Reliable" stamp on a original Sharps and threw his computer skills he made a black and white image of it. Then he enlarged it very much and cleaned up the edges of each letter on a pixel level to make a crisp image. That we took to a custom jeweler friend of his that does laser engraving and he scaled it and did a test piece. Then he cut it onto the barrel to the correct size and location. I'm lucky to have people with skills to call on. It came out so nice I also had him do my 50x2 1/2" Sharps as well.
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My quest for a butt plate that I prefer has panned out. I was nearly ready to go with rifle butt that would be nice but not the one of my dreams. When out of the inter net blue a fellow that had seen my search on another site contacted me with one that used an original mid range butt plate as a pattern. Dropping everything I dashed to the post office to send him his price. Today I have in my sweaty hands a high quality brass mid range butt plate. The forearm has been started and now the butt will start taking shape.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49251013066_c3397d63b4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i39jiG)IMG_0472 (https://flic.kr/p/2i39jiG) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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I'm liking this!.....
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The forearm and lock screws need escutcheons so I made them and a tool to cut the mortices.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317655646_0815bd3aed_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i92SPG)IMG_0476 (https://flic.kr/p/2i92SPG) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317155673_a1317e290d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8Zjct)IMG_0479 (https://flic.kr/p/2i8Zjct) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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;D YUM 8)
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I love people with true talent. Keep it up Kent. You might not Shootwell [which I don?t believe] but you sure can buildwell.
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Ed, when I show up at a shoot everybody is happy because they know they won?t be in last place! :o
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I can only wish I had the talent and equipment to do this kind of stuff. I admire your talent and abilities and must admit i'm envious. Waiting anxiously for photos of the final product.
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The forearm is all roughed out and carved for the Hartford tip. A bit more refining and then I'll pour the tip.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49346701661_e76d178554_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ibAKc4)IMG_0480 (https://flic.kr/p/2ibAKc4) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Looking good Ken . Going to be a very good looking rifle .,,,DT
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How art thou accomplishing the stock carving?
Do you have a jig, or a copycarver for your router?
yhs
prof marvel
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The carving is done with two chisels and the tool I made for the escutcheons. The primary one is about 3/8? wide and the other about 1/16? wide. Then a small file to smooth the edges.
I poured the tip yesterday and failed. The tablet backing I used as a form didn?t conform correctly to the stock and produced two low spots that ruined the casting. I?m sure it can?t be saved so will dig up another piece of wood for the forearm. It?s been a long time since the last Hartford tip I poured and the first one that didn?t work. Good thing it?s just for ?fun??
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Oh, that is beautiful work! My pathetic attempts at chisel inlet work look pretty bad...
Rather than wasting all the work on the wood, could you possibley fill in the low spots with ?soldering? as tho you were going auto body ?lead work?, using the same pewterish material?
Yhs
Prof Marvel
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I did try while the metal was still warm to solder it but was unsuccessful. A buddy has a lot of walnut that is from 5 to 30 years in storage so he gave me a chunk that is a close match in color to mine. Removing the metal from the wood needed to be done so as a challenge I tried to do it with out damaging it. Very low expectations of success yet worth a go. It came out fairly good so I figured maybe it could be salvaged or at lest it?s good practice. Surprise, surprise, it worked. Some careful detailing should bring it up to standards. Later today after I calm down I?ll do the finial shaping and start the polishing.
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I firmly believe that it?s the little details done well that make an average build into something special.
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Here it is polished enough for now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49364092181_a7584287ed_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2id8SMB)IMG_0484 (https://flic.kr/p/2id8SMB) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Looks fantastic! I have never poured a pewter nose cap and have no idea how it is done. I am sure there might be tutorials on youtube. How does it keep from burning the wood?
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WOW!
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The melting temperature of tin is 477 degrees. The metal I use has a bit of antimony in it as well. When the pour is made it cools quickly and doesn?t burn the wood at all. The whole cap is on average about 1/8? thick. I use tablet backing for the form along with bits of wood all taped on to pour into. The tape is the only thing that can?t be reused.
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That came out beautifully! Well done!
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;D SUPERB ;D
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Yesterdays work went well. The action is roughed in and just needs seated back to full contact and screwed down. Then the lock plate can be set in. Good figure is starting to show as the wood gets closer to finial size.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49390384761_1d39450b5a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ifsCDX)IMG_0487 (https://flic.kr/p/2ifsCDX) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Outstanding! I am really enjoying this thread. Please keep the photos coming.
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I just got through doing this on my 73 the easy way with a semi inlet stock. I?ve only done two from a blank and what Kent is doing is not for the faint of heart. Beautiful work there Kent. Endeavor to persevere.
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Outstanding work, Kent. I envy your abilities. I fitted a "pre-inletted" buttstock and forend on a Rem Rolling Block action and a Badger #1 heavy barrel. Took me a month and the buttplate took about two of those weeks. Turned out OK, but nothing like your project is proceeding. Keep posting the pictures of your progress. Kudos to you, sir.
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Holy cow pies, Kent
First a log cabin, now a Sharps. What's next? You going to build a car?
Seriously, superior work and photos. I'm beyond green (maybe brown) with envy.
Reverend Chase
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I?m glad you guys are finding this interesting. The cabin was hard for me as I have little understanding of how or why to do things to accomplish the work. This is a straight forward project since this is exactly what I did for a living at one time.
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There's likely a job opportunity for you at Shiloh or C. Sharps ... ;)
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Been there done that. Retired and staying that way!
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That is very interesting, congratulations on such a fine build. I learned a long time ago that I wouldn't live in, drive or shoot anything I would build...
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Had to take a short break from things to help some doctors make their boat payments. I got to ride a cat scan, have a EKG, donate some blood and various other thrills. Now I get to carry nitroglycerin around. I question the wisdom of anyone that would trust me with that.
Got the action in and working so stated on the butt plate.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49434529133_fb4333852c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijmTeP)IMG_0489 (https://flic.kr/p/2ijmTeP) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Vert nice. Looks like it is coming right along.
Did you cut and fit the stock to the receiver by hand or do you have the equipment to copy a stock and then do the final fitting by hand?
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Thanks Lou. I haven't any equipment to copy a stock. That would also mean I'd have to make pattern as well. This one is all chisels, files, and scrapers.
The only special equipment I have is a heat treat furnace for the color case hardening. I used to do that as a side job and for my own work.
Here's a sample form back in the day. The engraving isn't my work though. I don't have near enough talent for that!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49439294766_129f72000e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijMiTU)2015-08-18 001 2015-08-18 002 (https://flic.kr/p/2ijMiTU) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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I have to agree completely with Kent. There is a certain wonderfulness being retired. I've retired from three different careers. Retirement is my fourth and last career. I intend, this time, to stay retired. And That's The Way it IS.
That rifle you're building is absolutely the Beez Kneez. Absolutely gorgeous work. As a Master Cabinet Maker (Retired) I am just drooling over the stock work and just can't hardly wait for the finish to go on. Wish it were MINE!!
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Got the most part of the rough shaping done and stuck enough of it together to see how it fits. I think it will do. A bit more shaping then sanding and the finish work can start. Had to wet it to bring out the figure that is showing up well. The other side is nicer.
I imagine some one will start waving big handfuls of cash around after plying me with copious amounts of whiskey someday and have this one. NOT! It's the only one I made for me and I'm keeping it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49465128186_93072e54ea_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2in4HgG)IMG_0492 (https://flic.kr/p/2in4HgG) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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That'a a dandy looking Sharp's Kent . Great craftsmanship .,,,DT
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Ooooh Kent , this Sharps is going so beautifully!
every now and then I think about posting one of my abominations debacles projects and then I see work like this and say
Prof, A Man has To Know His Limitaitons!
yhs
prof (not so marvelous at this kind of work!)
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I was going to ask for the sale price (measured in whiskey), but I won't. Then I was going to post a photo of a rubber band gun that I made out of popsicle sticks, but the gun fell apart before I could take the picture. I'll just have to stick with marveling at the work that you've done and congratulating you! You are really going to enjoy this one!
CC Griff
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Oh Man, Oh Man! What an awesome looking rifle! I am sooooo jealous. You are a man of true talent!
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Thanks guys, the stock finish is started. I do a sanded in finish and at this point the surface is the slurry that is the wood and oil that is produced by sanding wet with 320 grit wet or dry paper. Then sanded again after drying leaving the slurry to dry again. I'll wet sand it once or twice more to remove the slurry. By wet I mean with oil. That will leave a filled grain that has no build up to accept the finial finish. During this time I'm sanding the metal to prepare for color case hardening.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49502799852_2a316b3ba2_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iqoMKb)IMG_0498 (https://flic.kr/p/2iqoMKb) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Beautiful piece of walnut , and craftsmanship beyond compare . Cant wait to see it all together .,,,DT
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Any updates on the project?
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Getting parts polished up for color case hardening at this time. My friend has a Stevens Favorite that he would like to have the color case redone on it so I've been coaching him on that this week. He one of those working people so it's hit and miss when he can stop by. Maybe we can fire up the oven in a week or two. Here are the parts that I feel are mostly done for now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49588394643_fe92a9038c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ixXu6r)IMG_0500 (https://flic.kr/p/2ixXu6r) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Awesome! I am ready for it to be done so we can get to the range to see how she shoots. Just outstanding.
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Yesterday the case hardening was done, today I'll assemble the Sharps. A video of my apprentice doing the quench.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/49635379156_b136bd508c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iC7hXf)MVI_0507 (https://flic.kr/p/2iC7hXf) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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A brand new Sharps.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49635881471_85e60daa9d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iC9SgR)IMG_0508 (https://flic.kr/p/2iC9SgR) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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WOW, Kent, fabulous! As I previously stated I am sooooo envious. Wish I possessed such talent. Be sure and give us a range report.
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More photos at Flicker.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49639724311_ed36c5d766_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iCuyBH)IMG_0511 (https://flic.kr/p/2iCuyBH) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Looks really good Kent , I'm sure it is as slick as it look's . Being a .40 Cal. should make it a handy shooter . ,,,DT
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A real beauty. You done good sir.
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Range report 40/70 Sharps.
Loaded 65 grains of 2fg into brand new brass compressed .200" with a Remington LR primer. With one card wad, 1/8" SPG lube wad, a paper disc and a 330 paper patched bullet. Used an empty case in the chamber to bore sight the tang into place and headed to the 100 yard range. The first five shots from the bench with out wiping or blow tubing came in fair. I'll move the front sight .028" to the left then will be ready to get serious.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49666645902_6c5efeb8d9_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iESxt5)IMG_0517 (https://flic.kr/p/2iESxt5) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Kent, could you explain to us novices what you did to bore sight the tang sight with an empty case chambered? Thanks.
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Lou, the way I do it works on any gun that you can see threw the barrel. Remove the bolt, breech block or what ever then place a deprimed case in the chamber. Place the gun in a vice or on sand bags pointed at a object that is as far away as possible and is distinct. A door knob or street light what ever you can line up on threw the barrel, the case serves as a peep sight the muzzle your front sight. Then look threw the sights with out touching the gun. Make the sights line up with the object that the bore is on. Double check each to insure both are on the mark and there you go. Bore sighting the crude and primitive way. Works for me.
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Great idea! I would expect nothing less from a man of your talents Kent. And that is one sharp looking rifle.
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Absolutely beautiful work! That is certainly a rifle to be proud of.
Looking forward to seeing additional range reports in the future :)
Clay
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I know this is an old thread but I'm an old guy. Finally got this rifle out on a hunt, and took this Wyoming white tail doe. Ten minutes of hunting and a 46 yard shot, just seems to easy!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51662986083_c3ff19bee9_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mHhiRn)IMG_0357 (https://flic.kr/p/2mHhiRn) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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That is awesome.
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nice!! Congrats!!
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Beautiful rifle, good shooting, tenderloin biscuits comin up. Yummy.
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Here y'a go, it is a mystery to me!!!.
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Howdy Slam,
Not sure but isn't that a Sharps percussion breech block and a breech seal mounted in the chamber/barrel? Don't know if the seal is the correct original or if it's installed correctly. I think I remember that the seal is supposed to be removable and it obturates upon ignition to help seal the camber. Maybe some expert can expound more accurately and in greater depth.
That's all I understand about what I know about that.
Rev. Chase
(possible new alias: "Captain Obvious")
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I tried to send these photos to Kent by PM, (so much for try) these sure as heck are not any of Kents beautiful work.
But i to believe this is a sleeve, ( not origional) and like yourself if it is installed correctly so i PM'd Kent to have a look see.
Guess i should have posted it some where's else. Thanks' Rev., will take all opinions, & guess's, otherwise it is a nice looking 74.
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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Looks like it’s not a 1874 Sharps action to me. Note the difference,
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51983843500_32452f9fa1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ncCMzN)9EB19E00-C1AC-4AAC-A8D3-562FE56594D5 (https://flic.kr/p/2ncCMzN) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
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Yes, sir you are right, will have a better look at mine in the morning. (Thunderstorm just blew in.) I do love a mystery!!!
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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Also how thick is the top of the lock plate? A 74 is about 1/8” and a 1863 is about 1/4” thick.
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Well tried to take pics., camera went to see JESUS. But the lock plate is about 1/8" thick. The mystery deepens???
coffee's ready, Hootmix.