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CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: Two Bit Charlie on August 11, 2019, 06:13:32 am

Title: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Two Bit Charlie on August 11, 2019, 06:13:32 am
Looking for a cowboy load for the 38 Special w/105 gr bullets. Would like to use Titegroup, WST, Clays or 231 if possible. Could use Trail Boss also. Hodgens does not list anything with these powders for the 105 bullet. I will be using this in Open Tops.

Two-Bit Charlie

Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: wildman1 on August 11, 2019, 08:37:16 am
90 gr bullet cowboy loads
titegroup min 3gs max 3.5gs

125 gr bullet
titegroup min3.2 gs max 3.8
 
so keep your loads between 3.2 gs and 3.5 gs you will be OK for titegroup

90 gr bullet cowboy loads
clays min 2.5gs max 3.0 gs

125 gr bullet
clays min 2.5 gs max 3.3 gs

so keep your load between 2.5 gs and 3.0 gs you will be OK for clays

These loads are from Cowboy action data in Hodgdens manual
 
The idea is  if you don't have data for a particular bullet weight pick one above and one below, the closest you can get to the bullet weight you want, stay above the minimum data for the heavier bullet and below the max data for the lighter bullet as long as you do not go outside the min or max load for either bullet.
wM1
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 11, 2019, 10:04:51 am

Some Lustrum ago  :o  when I actually dabbled in that fad heathen smokeless stuff  ::)  I liked 3Gr Tightgroup with a 105Gr Truncated Cone bullet.
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 11, 2019, 02:30:15 pm

Oh Bother.  I forgot.  I do that alot.  Forget that is.  They say the first thing to go is the memory.  Horsefeathers but I won't go there.  This is a family show.

Forgot to mention, I still shoot 105Gr Truncated Cone and 125Gr Truncated Cone bullets in 38 Spl. cases.  Only now I shoot APP.  Normally I load 10Gr of APP and then filler to the base of the bullet (no air space .. remember).  Nice load that meets the smoke requirements.  A load of BP would be about the same.  For the CAS game, a heavier load is not required.
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Abilene on August 11, 2019, 02:50:06 pm
To try out a Kirst-conversion Navy, I loaded up some Bear Creek hollowbase 105gr bullets with 2.7gr Clays.  Worked fine, but there was zero recoil, just pop pop pop.  I wanted more, so started shooting my regular 125gr mid-range load that I shoot in the other guns.  But it might be fun to try racing with the lil poppers some time.
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: August on August 11, 2019, 03:35:13 pm
I started by running 3.2 grains of Titegroup behind a 105 bullet.  Occasionally, but often enough to ruin a few matches, got primers backed out that didn't reseat during recoil.  The advise I got is the advise I'll pass on to you.  Start a 3.5 grains of Titegroup and go down if you don't have any primer problems.  After following this advise, I ran Titegroup at 3.4 grains for over a decade without experiencing a backed out primer or failure of any, other kind.

I have seen other shooters experience primer "back-out" problems with Titegroup running at, or below 3.2 grains with a 105.

(Parenthetically, I've run WST in my Wild Bunch loads for over ten years and feel it is a much better powder than Titegroup for light loads.  Unfortunately, I've never worked it up in the .38 special, so I have no idea where to start.  It would be worth playing with it, though, as it is a wonderful powder -- clean, quiet, consistent, neither position nor temperature sensitive in my experience)
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: wildman1 on August 11, 2019, 04:31:37 pm
You will experience less probable with primers staying out if you have a good tite crimp.
wM1
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Two Bit Charlie on August 13, 2019, 11:12:43 am
Thanks for all the information everyone. I think I'm going to try 3.4 grains of Titegroup with the 105 gr. bullets. I'm going to this new (for me) bullet because of the problems I had using a 90 gr. .380 Auto bullet. I tried 3.0 gr. of Titegroup with the 90 gr. bullet. Because the bullet is slightly undersize for the 38 special I had problems getting a good crimp. The revolvers were locking up with these loads. Primers backing out. I got this load from a friend who said it worked great for him. Maybe so, but not for me.

Again thanks all

Two-Bit Charlie
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 13, 2019, 02:46:03 pm

Ah well ..... Some Lustrum(s) ago, I was sometimes embarrassed to admit I was shooting 105Gr bullets in 38s right until I ran into a bunch folks who were shooting 90Gr bullets.  They were actually 38s (358) but I don't remember where they got em.  The idea then (as now) was to reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip as much as possible to keep the gun on target whilst running it as fast as possible.  Atz why I ran/run 105s as well.  Reduced muzzle flip is key when running really fast.  I'm no longer really fast (got old ya see) but I still have a huge pile of 105s and 125s.  Shoot em up says I.

The 105Gr Truncated Cone bullets were borne of necessity.  A common profile 90 - 100Gr bullet was just too small to run in a 38 case for Toggle link Rifles.  I never saw the necessity or even a good reason to run bullets that light and short in a Toggle Link Rifle.  There's no recoil in a .38 rifle even with larger bullets.  Kind of the opposite of using sledge hammer to swat ants.  Silly really.  There is however, the desire to load the same bullet for both rifle and pistol for simplicity.  Some have had trouble keeping track of "which bullet for what."  Then the other very important reason for the Truncated Cone .... feeding.  Properly crimped, Trucated Cone bullets feed better than grain through a Goose in most rifles.
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Crow Choker on August 13, 2019, 06:35:31 pm
Maybe the rules could be changed to allowing the use of only 22 rimfire ammo and firearms in SASS/CAS matches. Of course there will be those who will want the 22 LR ammo degraded to the use of 22 shorts, then 22 CB caps. Open up a category where the use of BB guns and/or airsoft firearms are used--that'd be a real hoot! Of course the airsoft pellets will have to be colored horse 'puckey' brown to be 'period correct'.!!! ;D
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 14, 2019, 10:12:50 am

Yuck Yuck Yuck .... Thibbit   :P
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Abilene on August 14, 2019, 12:29:04 pm
Ah well ..... Some Lustrum(s) ago...

The plural of Lustrum is Lustra.    ;D
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Two Bit Charlie on August 17, 2019, 08:02:58 pm
Well, I loaded up 100 rounds of the 105 grain truncated bullets with 3.4 grains of Titegroup. They ran fine in my Mason conversion. No primers backing out. This pistol and it's mate as well as the 94 Marlin in .38/.357 are for my two 11 year old grandsons. Yes, Iooking for reduced recoil.

Thank you all for the help.
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 18, 2019, 09:29:27 am

AH ... Why would I be concerned with being Gram-Attic-Lee kerect??  Hummmmmm Why???   ::)

But Thank you Abilene.  It is nice to know there is a correcter forum of the wurd   ;D
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Abilene on August 18, 2019, 11:36:06 am
Yore Wellcomm.   ;)
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Professor Marvel on August 18, 2019, 05:45:01 pm
The plural of Lustrum is Lustra.    ;D

OOOOHHHHHH

Abilene knows Latin!!!!
Can you manage "Illegitimi non carborundum"  ?

ABILENE
Quickly! There's No Time!
Please give me the Latin for
     "I Came
      I Saw
      I had a little coffee"

yhs
prof marvel
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Abilene on August 18, 2019, 08:01:13 pm
Let's see.  Et tu Brute.  Was that right?

I do still know some of my alter boy responses.  :)
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on August 19, 2019, 07:40:09 am
he must be an educated man.
Being a confirmed Gun Powder cap gun person I really can't add to this.
Bunk
Title: Re: 38 Special w/105 gr bullet
Post by: Professor Marvel on August 20, 2019, 01:03:39 am
.....
I do still know some of my alter boy responses.  :)

Ummmm

Mia culpa?

Since everythings always my fault it comes naturally...

Prof Marvel