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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: cpt dan blodgett on August 02, 2019, 06:45:57 pm

Title: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on August 02, 2019, 06:45:57 pm
It looks almost pristine with just a little holster wear on the muzzle and some of the sharp edges.  No visible rust really sharp rifling.  Can't wait to get to the range.
And Bat what Thermal scope are you looking at??
Those of you that have a 38 S&W what are using as snap caps for dry fire??
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: DeaconKC on August 02, 2019, 06:50:30 pm
That is a fine old Webley! And the nice thing is that there are still plenty of manufacturers making .38 S&W ammo.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on August 02, 2019, 07:06:07 pm
Indeed, have 250 on hand 250 in bound and at some point will load replicas of the .38/200 round.  Have not heard of anyone selling a cast 174 grain like the jacketed WWII service ammo.  My intent is to have a round that will shoot to the sights at 20-25 yards.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: c.o.jones on August 02, 2019, 09:48:30 pm
I am the proud owner of 7 455 Webleys. All are originals except one that has been nickel plated. One WG Army& Navy.  Two model 1's......,4 model 4's. These are shot all the time. These are my favorite revolvers. All were purchased over 40 years ago when they were dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Niederlander on August 03, 2019, 06:07:23 am
Indeed, have 250 on hand 250 in bound and at some point will load replicas of the .38/200 round.  Have not heard of anyone selling a cast 174 grain like the jacketed WWII service ammo.  My intent is to have a round that will shoot to the sights at 20-25 yards.
I use regular Lee 158 grain flat nose bullets in a .38 S & W Lemon Squeezer and they seem to be pretty accurate.  Of course, I'm not shooting it very far, either.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Pitspitr on August 05, 2019, 06:08:32 pm
 ::) Isn't everything you shoot "pretty accurate" when you shoot it?  ???
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Niederlander on August 05, 2019, 06:09:47 pm
Certainly not that Krag carbine until I figured out the bullet sizing thing!
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on August 06, 2019, 10:51:43 am
I cheated when my Krag would not put 2 cast bullets in the same target on sequential shots and got a new DCM barrel
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 06, 2019, 03:15:55 pm
As you might expect, I am also of the view that Webley and other British revolvers are indeed wonderful things, and I have quite a number of them myself.

However, in view of your posting here in the Barracks, I feel obliged to caution that the Mark IV .38 revolver, due to its late introduction (1920's), is not useable as a GAF revolver ... even in Era of Expansion matches ...
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: DeaconKC on August 06, 2019, 04:59:55 pm
Home snap caps are easy. Using a fired case, just drive out the primer and glue a small pencil eraser in the primer pocket. Go fancy and seat a bullet and then drill a hole through the case, if you are feeling a little froggy! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Pitspitr on August 08, 2019, 06:03:56 am
Last night on American Rifleman the "I have this old gun" segment was on the Webley RIC
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Professor Marvel on August 08, 2019, 06:32:04 am
Now you guys are making me dig up the old breaktop and see if it's an Enfield or a Webley...
yhs
prof marvel
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: DeaconKC on August 08, 2019, 12:21:22 pm
As you might expect, I am also of the view that Webley and other British revolvers are indeed wonderful things, and I have quite a number of them myself.

However, in view of your posting here in the Barracks, I feel obliged to caution that the Mark IV .38 revolver, due to its late introduction (1920's), is not useable as a GAF revolver ... even in Era of Expansion matches ...
However, it would be right at home in Zoot Shooting!
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 08, 2019, 07:17:50 pm
Actually . . . as you know, we allow later Colt and S&W revolvers in liu of the originals, due to rarity and fragility.  Thus the Army Special/Official Police is allowed in place of the New Army and Navy, and a fixed sight, round butt, blued K-frame is allowed in place of the M1899 S&W.  Both these guns are nearly identical in appearance and function to the older weapons.  So also we allow the MK IV .380 to be used in place of the earlier MKIII .380, (In appropriate portrayals) as it is nearly identical in form and function to the earlier revolver, in it's target gripped form.  MK III production goes back to 1896, with the appropriate square butt target grips available even then. 

Unfortunately, this is limited for the .455 models.  The MK V can be used in the Victorian match, but not the MK VI, due to grip configuration, I don't believe a square target grip for the large bores was introduced until 1905 or so, though I would be glad to be corrected in any of this if I am wrong?
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 09, 2019, 01:17:33 am
Actually, Chuck, there were various "square butt" configurations of Webley revolvers well before the end of the 19th century, although it wasn't introduced for the War Department "issued" models until the Mark VI came along in 1915.

Although the early "square butt" configuration tended to be wanted more for target shooting than the birdshead style, an officer's "private purchase" revolver could well have been in this style ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/791x542q90/923/s50UGA.jpg)
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Niederlander on August 09, 2019, 05:58:18 am
Hmmmm?????.perhaps I shouldn't have sold my Mark VI years ago!
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 09, 2019, 05:45:48 pm
I stand gladly corrected, and indeed this would indicate that the MK VI could be used as a reasonable substitute for the Target Grip W.G. in an officers Private Purchase Portrayal post 1889. 

Though this does NOT let Stanley Baker off the hook . . .
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 10, 2019, 02:40:19 am
 :o

ARRRGGHH!  There is no such thing as a "Webley Green" revolver, and you will certainly never see that term used in any Webley company literature!  Nor does "W.G." stand for Webley Green!  Contemporary documentation (including Webley company literature) makes it clear that the acronym was short for "Webley Government" ... not claiming that this was a design adopted by the British Government, but rather as an indication that the model was chambered for the Government service revolver cartridge and that it would be suitable for purchase by military officers ...

The "Webley-Green" moniker is a complete fabrication which passed into common usage because Dowell included it in his well-known "The Webley Story" ... although it is unclear whether he made it up himself, or was merely passing along a misunderstanding already in use in the Webley-collecting fraternity.  The "Green" in question, supposedly being honoured or recognized in the name, never worked for or in association with Webley ... in fact he made claims against them that certain features of their revolvers were his inventions ... although he hadn't bothered to patent them whereas Webley had taken patents out on all of them years before he advanced his claims ...
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 10, 2019, 03:43:56 am
ARRRRGGHHH! I knew that!  :P
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Baltimore Ed on August 16, 2019, 07:45:16 pm
Here you go. I love mine. I used my Fosbery target and the Mk IV a couple of matches ago. Shot my correct .455 HB 265 gr. hand loads too.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: DeaconKC on August 16, 2019, 10:55:45 pm
 :) :) I have never seen a T grip on a Webley before!
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 16, 2019, 11:12:04 pm
"T grip" ... ?
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 16, 2019, 11:24:10 pm
My Webley "WG Target" revolver -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x559q90/924/xGPRwr.jpg)
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Baltimore Ed on August 17, 2019, 07:30:39 am
Very nice revolver there Rattlesnake.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 17, 2019, 10:02:29 pm
Very nice revolver there Rattlesnake.

Thanks ... despite the finish being somewhat mottled, it is the nicest handling of any handgun I have ever used: in double-action mode, as the trigger pull brings the hammer to full cock there is a very noticeable "rest", after which the gentlest of further pressure on the trigger drops the hammer.

As a result, I'd say it is the most accurate handgun I have ever fired ...  When I first got it, a small broken internal spring resulted in the cylinder not consistently indexing, necessitating "manual indexing" for every shot, so I did very little shooting with it.  Once that problem was fixed, I took it to the range to see how it would now perform. I only had thirty rounds with me, but when I saw how accurate it it seemed to be shooting (offhand, one-handed hold) I patched the sole paper target I had brought along and then fired the last fifteen rounds from a seated position with a double-handed hold, heels of my hands resting on the counter of the shooting shed, using my usual six-o'clock hold on the bull.  This is those fifteen rounds ...  range was twenty-five yards -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/670x650q90/924/WpaXet.jpg)
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Bat 2919 on August 17, 2019, 11:32:30 pm
"T grip" ... ?

Tyler T Grip adapters.  Fills the area behind the trigger guard so your hand has a better hold for target shooting.  Very popular in the U S for target shooing up to the 70's when people just stopped using them.  looks like some one is still making / selling them.

http://www.t-grips.com/ (http://www.t-grips.com/)

Grips (factory and after market) were made to fill this void about then.  I still have rubber grips on my J Frame Smith that fill this area.  Set's my grip up so I naturally bring the gun up with the sights aligned.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 18, 2019, 12:17:02 am
Thanks, Bat ... wasn't familiar with the term ...
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Baltimore Ed on August 18, 2019, 08:28:56 am
Also keeps my arthritic knuckle from getting rapped by the trigger guard.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Whiskey Double on August 18, 2019, 07:48:38 pm
I'm getting confused here gentleman. I'm looking at a Mark IV in .38 , can it be used or not ?.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 18, 2019, 08:51:04 pm
Yes, it can be used in place of a target gripped MK III in an appropriate portrayal.  This would be after 1896, probably as civilian of the Empire, as I believe an officers weapon would have to be of the issue caliber, IE .455.  I suppose an enlisted infantryman might have one in his kit, much like US troops overseas often carried small revolvers as last ditch weapons.  Though perhaps her Majesty's army frowned upon such things?  Jack?

I could see US troops possibly acquiring these, as the various Webleys and other small British revolvers were quite popular in the States,  and of course the .38 S&W was a very popular round on this side of the Atlantic.   The Webley would be on the expensive end of the scale, far outnumbered by the various "Bulldogs" and US made 5 shooters.

Though anyone using one had better have quite a good backstory as to how he got it and why.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on August 19, 2019, 12:19:46 pm
Contrary to Drydock's view (which presumably governs) I am personally of the view that the .38 Mark IV is not suficiently like the Mark III to permit its use in GAF events ...

As for British Empire Other Ranks (enlisted personnel) carrying revolvers as last ditch weapons ... very uncommon, I understand.

Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 19, 2019, 05:50:56 pm
I very much respect your view, and will give it more thought.  Please stand by to stand by.  I would also say a MK IV is worth having for it's own sake.  And it is a dandy Zoot gun, and will make minor at a USPSA revolver match with the .380/200 loads.
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Niederlander on August 19, 2019, 07:34:21 pm
STANDING BY TO STAND BY!!  (One of our favorite sayings from The Basic School...?.)
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 19, 2019, 08:14:30 pm
As my wife likes to say "Where does that come from?"  Well, ya see darling . . .
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Whiskey Double on August 19, 2019, 08:47:31 pm
Thank God mine doesn't know or care " where that came from"
Title: Re: Fruits of ya'lls bad influence - Webley Mark IV .38 in the house
Post by: Drydock on August 21, 2019, 06:20:36 pm
Upon further review, the MK IV in it's standard configuration cannot be used as a GAF sidearm.  However, any small bore Webley top break having a compact (What I would consider a "2 Finger") grip FRAME, can be used.