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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: cpt dan blodgett on July 22, 2019, 09:28:58 pm

Title: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 22, 2019, 09:28:58 pm
I may have a lead on a Colt Army Special in 38 S&W.  Yet another caliber to load for, I am wondering if it might not be a better stroke to get a 38 Special Cylinder and go with a cartridge I already load.  Expect if I used a softer alloy the bullets might upset to work in the 361 nominal bore vs the .357 bore of a true .38 special.
What to those in the barracks more knowledgeable than I think??
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: DeaconKC on July 22, 2019, 09:31:28 pm
I know too many folks with mil-surp guns who reload and the bullets for .357 will not expand enough to give decent results in the larger bores. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: Drydock on July 23, 2019, 03:46:32 am
I believe after 1908 and the introduction of the Army Special, that Colt used the same barrels for .38 S&W and .38 Special.  I will try to confirm this.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 23, 2019, 10:04:23 am
I read something about making the bore tighter to increase performance of the .38 S&W cartridge.  The pistol in question is a 1912 gun so possibly the swapping of the cylinder is not a bad idea. The good news is Cheaper than Dirt has 38 S&W for about $22 for 50 rd box.  Small matter of FFL getting to seller and a hit on my visa and said pistol will be on its way.  Guess I can try sticking a one of my current lead .38 bullets in the barrel and see if it is tight.

It might be fun to  do some 38/200 loads and keep it original.  After all it is only a set of dies right?
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 23, 2019, 04:23:10 pm
FFL recieved CC dinged should have by friday
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on July 23, 2019, 06:34:42 pm
Some people use the 148gr hollow base wadcutters in their 38 SW/38-200. they will expand to grip the rifling.  long ago, I cut down 38 special for brass.   
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: DeaconKC on July 23, 2019, 07:43:06 pm
Fiocchi is now stocking loaded ammo and Starline makes brand new brass for the .38 S&W
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: Drydock on July 23, 2019, 08:30:37 pm
Yep, according to some of my back issues of Handloader, all straight case .38 barrels (LC, Special, S&W) after 1908 were spec'd at .355! In fact, most measure .354.  I went and measured my 1922 Army special, yep, .354.  More important to accuracy is to check and match the throat diameters of the cylinder.  The Brits and S&W used the larger bore.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 25, 2019, 10:05:19 am
Thanks have 250 rounds of PP 38 S&W inbound 109 shipped from Cheaper than Dirt will be here in 10 days.  The price one pays for free shipping is an extra 7 days
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on July 26, 2019, 06:50:21 pm
From a backyard gunsmith, (will work/experiment on my own) on older Colts. I have 2 older colts, a new pocket & New Police, both in 32 Colt. Took measurements on bullet diameter between 32 Colt & 32 S&W, not significant enough to seam unsafe. 1st purchased a a Police Positive cylinder in 32 S&W long. Couldn't get to work in either. Next bought a complete assembly crane & cylinder. Fit both guns, lock up good. Took to the range, cut a hole in the bottom of a box about 5? wide, inserted barrel so cylinder gap was mid point in box, (note, tape box down). My results, in New Police, safe, minimal scouring of powder, no sign of lead shaving. New Pocket, not safe, although  no lead shavings, scouring was heavy, stippling from powder left & right corresponding to position of refiling grooves, my interpretation cylinder gap too large. A possible suggestion, (never tried), maybe a Hallow base wadcutter. Could a 38 S&W cartridge be crimped to .357, 2nd if it could, could it be seated in the cylinder?
Dusty
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: Bat 2919 on July 26, 2019, 10:03:07 pm
The .32 S & W Long and the ,32 Colt New Police are the same cartridge.  Colt just couldn't bring themselves to write "S & W" on the side of one of their guns so they gave the round a new name.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: pony express on July 26, 2019, 10:33:20 pm
The .32 S & W Long and the ,32 Colt New Police are the same cartridge.  Colt just couldn't bring themselves to write "S & W" on the side of one of their guns so they gave the round a new name.

But, there's also the .32 short and long Colt, they are very different than the .32 S&W, with heel base bullets and case diameter same as the bullet diameter. I have no idea if Colt ever chambered those in the "Modern" (post 1900) DA revolvers.

Could a 38 S&W cartridge be crimped to .357, 2nd if it could, could it be seated in the cylinder?
Dusty


I'm not sure what you're getting at here? The .38 S&W case is about .010 bigger diameter than the Special. It won't fit in  most .38 Special cylinders, even if you full length size in a Special die, since there'll still be an unsized area near the case head. I have an 1892 Colt Army in .38LC, that will chamber NEW .38S&W cases or ammo, as long as it hasn't been fired in a .38S&W chamber. Also, if you try to use the .38S&W sizing die for .38 Special, the bullets will not have enough neck tension, then the ONLY thing holding them in is the crimp. They might even "telescope" in a tube magazine rifle (not saying how I know that!).
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: Bat 2919 on July 27, 2019, 12:23:30 pm
In the early days of SASS shooting when specialty bullets were hard to find I routinely would but the most oversize .38 bullets (358/359) I could buy and load them into 38 S&W cases with good results.  I did find one that would tip in the case enough it wouldn't chamber from time to time.   Never thought about the HBWC bullets at the time, I even had a box of them on the shelf from my PPC days,  that's a good idea.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 27, 2019, 06:43:33 pm
It arrived and near as I can tell without getting out the calipers and measuring my model 66 Cylinder vs this cylinder it is actually a 38 S&W Special as 38 special rounds chamber with no noticeable slop or wobble left and right or up and down when inserting into the cylinder.  I can find no caliber markings on the right side of the barrel but the left side says:
"Colt Army Special .38".  If the 38&W ammo chambers when it arrives, my assessment will be out the window.  If not I will have 250 rounds of Privi Partizan ammo that I paid 109.95 delivered available for $110 at the next muster just because I don't want to carry around a nickle to make change. 

Don't like the feel of those fake antler grips, funny my Colt New Service came with the same kind of grip, it had an excuse as it had been a movie gun and would look more cowboy.
Originals available on Ebay in decent shape for age at a pretty reasonable price.  They will be on order as soon as I post this.

Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 27, 2019, 07:36:33 pm
That's a .38 Special all right.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: DeaconKC on July 27, 2019, 08:24:14 pm
Just be careful, as some .38 S&W chambered guns had their cylinders rebored for .38 Special over the years. If the cylinder will accept both cartridges, have a gunsmith check it over. You will have problems on reloading as using .38 Special cases will swell and then be worked over when resizing.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 27, 2019, 08:56:30 pm
Further research indicates that Colt almost always chambered the .38 S&W in the "D" frame "Positive" revolvers.  Labeled on the barrel as .38 New Police.  "Almost" as the only "I" frame guns with this chambering were a run of 19,000 made for the British in 1941, labeled for the .38/200.  You have a good old .38 Special.  Though the D barrels were indeed .354, as were the Brit contract I's.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 28, 2019, 01:49:19 pm
Thanks, pretty sure I will have 250 rounds of 38 S&W I can't use.  Hmmm sell the ammo?  Hmmm better stroke might be to get a 38/200 victory model or a brit pistol thou those are getting pricey.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 28, 2019, 04:31:36 pm
I have several revolvers in this caliber, if you still have the ammo at the next muster I could probably take it.  However, may I recommend you look for a Webley MK IV?  The one I have is one of my favorite revolvers, and they can still be had at (Mostly) reasonable prices.  Everyone should have a Webley, and they work great with K frame speed loaders.

 Iver Johnson revolvers in this caliber are also a lot of fun (make sure it's the Third Model, with coil springs and excellent metallurgy)  and VERY  reasonable in price.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 28, 2019, 06:07:34 pm
found a rough looking DA only on Armslist for 400 how much of pain in the ass is it to swap out a hammer
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 29, 2019, 08:11:38 am
DA only what?  Though I suspect you are looking at an Enfield No 2, commonly mislabled as a Webley, and those cannot be converted back to DA/SA.  Much harder to get parts for than a real Webley.  DA only Webleys are virtually unknown.  (found it, yep, that's an Enfield, you do not want that.  the Webley just above it is much better.)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/820232248

This is a very good BIN price, especially with the extras.  In Snowflake AZ.

The Webley MK IV is a Victorian match eligible revolver, as it is identical in form and function to a line of target gripped small frame Webleys that go back to the mid 1890s.  The Enfield is not eligible for anything we do, unfortunatly.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 29, 2019, 08:41:15 am
IJ with Target grips: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/820024578
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 29, 2019, 04:04:32 pm
That does look like a gooden only about 550 reasons not to buy it right now
Cleaned up the Colt today, was super filthy in bore and chamber think someone shot up a few boxes of shells and did not clean it.  Cleaned up ok good rifling but dark bore, will see how it shoots one day once it cools a bit here in AZ or just go early and sweat.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Pitspitr on July 30, 2019, 09:31:23 am
... will see how it shoots one day once it cools a bit here in AZ or just go early and sweat.
Yeah, it was only, what, 118 Saturday?
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 30, 2019, 12:19:26 pm
But I hear it's a Dry Heat . . .
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 30, 2019, 02:01:10 pm
what u think of this one https://www.armslist.com/posts/10110536/fort-collins-colorado-handguns-for-sale--webley---scott-mark-iv-war-finish--38-revolver
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 30, 2019, 02:30:27 pm
I'd buy it for that price.  Might offer $450 to see if he'd move, but MK IVs are starting to move up now that the .455s are getting very pricy.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 30, 2019, 02:47:20 pm
What do you think of this one
https://www.armslist.com/posts/10110536/fort-collins-colorado-handguns-for-sale--webley---scott-mark-iv-war-finish--38-revolver
not as nice as the AZ one but $50 less expensive
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 30, 2019, 03:04:58 pm
That's the same one, yeah, I'd get it.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Pitspitr on July 31, 2019, 06:06:43 am
But I hear it's a Dry Heat . . .
Oh yeah it is, but it's still heat. It's probably more comfortable at 118 than it is in Nebraska at 100, but if I lived out there, I'd have to buy a camelback and just carry water around with me.  ::)
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 31, 2019, 05:13:07 pm
Well soon I will have a new toy Mark IV Webley 38/200.  Just got tracking number should be to my FFL on friday
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Drydock on July 31, 2019, 06:40:28 pm
We are a bad influence . . . ;D
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 31, 2019, 07:02:10 pm
TRULY!!!!!!!!!!!
Without your influence I ordered a .458 SoCom Upper with BCG and Charging handle should be a great hot thumper.  Everyone should have a 45-70 AR
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Niederlander on July 31, 2019, 07:30:23 pm
We are a bad influence . . . ;D
Peer pressure can be a terrible (or wonderful) thing!
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: DeaconKC on July 31, 2019, 08:04:31 pm
We are a bad influence . . . ;D
We do our humble best. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on July 31, 2019, 08:50:21 pm
About all that is left is Nagant as the broomhandle mauser is just too expensive and I dont want a nambu as I would have to buy a rifle.  I have a american eagle swiss luger but my K31 is not old enough and I really dont want the 1911 swiss
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Bat 2919 on July 31, 2019, 10:49:22 pm
TRULY!!!!!!!!!!!
Without your influence I ordered a .458 SoCom Upper with BCG and Charging handle should be a great hot thumper.  Everyone should have a 45-70 AR

WHAT, every one doesn't?  Ordered a thermal scope for mine.  This ought to be the ultimate Texas hog gun when I get everything put together.
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on August 01, 2019, 11:17:43 am
hey Bat what kind of thermal?
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: Bat 2919 on August 06, 2019, 12:56:32 pm
ATN Thor LT 2-6x
Title: Re: Colt Army Special Arrived Pics Added
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on August 07, 2019, 07:52:16 pm
I am looking at the Wraith Night Sight IR illuminated http://www.sightmark.com/product2.php?item=1172