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CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: John E.B. Rawton on July 12, 2019, 12:18:41 pm

Title: Fill er up
Post by: John E.B. Rawton on July 12, 2019, 12:18:41 pm
Hi All, first post here.
I have read all about the expressed need to fill up the cartridges all the way, even to using a filler if you are not going for a full charge. I have also read to fill up the cap gun chamber the same way so the ball sits just below flush of the chamber mouth.
I mean why not set the ball until one gets slight compression regardless of how deep inside the chamber it sits. I load 20, 25 and 40 gr an with a wad ram the ball on down. I am not interested in pushing loads beyond those stated because they are stout enough for each gun.
Where?s the concern of seating deeper than flush?
Title: Re: Fill?er up
Post by: Coffinmaker on July 12, 2019, 01:06:33 pm

Ah So Padawan  :D

I see an opportunity for and educational dissertation and perhaps the elimination of some confusions.  And perhaps some old wives tales.  Some ancient and oft repeated horse pucks as it twer.

BP cartridges are filled to the base of the bullet plus a little for compression to eliminate "Premature Shot Start" and unwanted pressure spikes that can cause squibbing and the ringing of barrels.  Because Pistol bullets are designed to be crimped.  Crimped inna crimp groove.  Atz the way it's always been done.  Except for gallery loads and one manufacturer who was reducing the air space not only in BP cartridges but also smokeless cases by shoving the bullet all the way down to the powder.  There is/was not load data for doing this and folks who were trying to duplicate the really really light loads with no data were experiencing some di-fu-cul-ty.  Nasty things were happening to reloader and then SASS decided ammunition had to have lead showing above the case mouth and the practice died out.  The practice is a little sketchy with Smokeless because of odd pressure spikes and ALL load data presumes a normal crimp.

With BP, with the bullet sitting on the powder and no crimp, each round fired will probably result in the other bullets creeping forward and creating air space.  A no no.  And you can't crimp the case with the bullet seated deep as the bullet hesitating at the case mouth will act as an obstruction.  Potentially disastrous results.

Cap Guns are a different ball game.  We seat the bullet or ball very tightly in the chamber.  This prevents ball creep.  DO NOT use undersize balls or bullets.  Bad Ju Ju.  With a cap gun, there is no reason at all why you can't seat the ball or bullet all the way down to the powder.  Except most OEM "on the gun" rammers won't reach far enough to do that.  If you're going to load light, you need to either extend the rammer to reach where you want it to, or use an off the gun cylinder loading stand.  I personally recommend the Cylinder Loading Stand.  With a loading stand that will seat the ball or bullet with a smidgen of compression, filler is ........ wasted.

Oh, forgot your last question.  Re: above.  Normally the Rammer is too short.  The Rammer was designed by the manufacturers expecting most to load their gun with all the powder they could get in them and still get all the ball in the chamber.
Title: Re: Fill?er up
Post by: John E.B. Rawton on July 12, 2019, 02:10:42 pm
Ahh. Makes sense.
Even though I performed the test before I went back and double checked my cyphering. For the Walkers 40gr fills the chamber so as the ram will touch the top of the powder. Add ball an forget about it. The ?51 with 20gr leaves just enough room for the ball. The 1860 is however the odd horse. At 25gr the ram does not reach the powder and by adding a ball there is probably minimal compression. A wad is best used with that charge. I am curious as to how the ?51 looks with a 15 gr charge.