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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Bull Schmitt on January 10, 2019, 02:44:47 pm

Title: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Bull Schmitt on January 10, 2019, 02:44:47 pm
A friend of mine is rebuilding/restoring a 1905 Ross and needs a source of miscellaneous parts. Can anyone suggest some sources?

Bull Schmitt
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Grenadier on January 10, 2019, 04:11:09 pm
Depending on what he needs, eBay is the best option. Middle and front bands are like woodpecker teeth. I have a source in Canada that makes replica parts but he ain’t cheap. The last front band I watched on eBay went north of $250
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 10, 2019, 04:26:33 pm
Bull:

Numrich/Gun Parts Corp. list quite a few 1905 Ross parts - https://www.gunpartscorp.com/search#query=Ross%201905 (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/search#query=Ross%201905)

Another option mght be Western Gun Parts (up here in Canada- Edmonton, Alberta) - they have a pretty massive inventory of stuff, but don't have an online catalogue, so he'd have to e-mail them with his needs:  http://www.westerngunparts.com (http://www.westerngunparts.com)

Anothr suggestion would be to try to find one of the many "sporterized" Ross rifles floating around out there, as a donor.  Mind you, if he is trying to restore one that has been sporterized, that won't help him much for any cut-down wood he needs.  There is an outfit up here in Alberta who make semi-inlet stocks for a lot of old military rifles, including the Ross models (... also the "Long Lees" - i.e. Magazine Lee-Metford and Magazine Lee-Enfield - in case anyopne is is neeed need of wood for onw of those ...) but I'd have to track down their contact info.


Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 10, 2019, 04:29:28 pm
Depending on what he needs, eBay is the best option. Middle and front bands are like woodpecker teeth. I have a source in Canada that makes replica parts but he ain’t cheap. The last front band I watched on eBay went north of $250

Yes, for restoration of '"sporterized" rifles, the parts commonly removed and discarded by Bubba are, of course, the hardest to find now!   :-\
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Pitspitr on January 11, 2019, 09:21:46 am
Once he gets it rebuilt Rattlesnake Jack is probably his best source to teach him the Period Correct profanities used when trying to run a Ross

 ::) :o

 ;D
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Trailrider on January 11, 2019, 11:35:23 am
I do NOT recall the details, but IIRC, there were certain models of Ross rifles that, if the bolt was assembled incorrectly, THE BOLT COULD FLY BACK INTO THE SHOOTER'S FACE!  Perhaps those familiar with the Ross can supply details.
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Bull Schmitt on January 11, 2019, 02:01:59 pm
Thanks for the info!! If anyone has more info  I would sure like to have it!!

Bull Schmitt
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 11, 2019, 04:27:44 pm
I do NOT recall the details, but IIRC, there were certain models of Ross rifles that, if the bolt was assembled incorrectly, THE BOLT COULD FLY BACK INTO THE SHOOTER'S FACE!  Perhaps those familiar with the Ross can supply details.

That was the case with the 1910 (Mark III) Ross (which was the final version, and standard issue going into WWI) but this potential hazard has been blown out of all proportion, since cases of it actually happening are virtually unheard of. It should be noted that if this unlikely condition exists, the bolt does not fly right out of the rifle, but stops at the rearmost position of travel. 

In "The Ross Rifle, Monograph" produced after WWI for the Canadian government, its author Col A.F. Duguid noted that there was only one authenticated instance of a fatal injury to a firer of a Ross rifle.  He also noted that during training of Canadian troops at Camp Valcartier, a total of 22,128 Ross Mk III rifles fired a total of 4,589,040 rounds with only one minor casualty recorded, that being from a blow-back.

To put things into perspective:  first off, it is rather difficult to actually reassemble the bolt incorrectly and still manage to get it back into the rifle, since it doesn't want to go back into its channel in that condiition, and you really have to work at it to get it in!

Also, if you are the least bit knowledgeable, the fact that a bolt is assembled incorrectly is readily apparent at a glance:  the locking lugs should be well ahead of the bolt body (about an inch, or "thumb width").  This ensures that the locking lugs of the bolt are far enough forward to engage the mating lugs inside the rear of the barrel, when the bolt turns partway around as it is pushed forward. If the bolt lugs are back against the bolt body, the bolt is assembled incorrectly, so that when it is pushed fully forward the lugs do go out of sight but don't engage the inner lugs ...  (You may observe that this "interrupted thread" locking system is the same as is used on artillery pieces ... and is a very strong system)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/391x542q90/923/RiDV81.jpg)

Finally, Canadian military regulations in any event strictly prohibited the disassembly of a rifle bolt by anyone other than a certified armourer, so you'd have to be in breach of that rule to put yourself in any danger.   

All of that being said, simply because this unlikely possibility existed, a modification was introduced, in which a beefy "pin" was set into the outer bolt body, projecting inside, to prevent reassembly of the bolt incorrectly.  Thus, almost all surviving Mk III Ross rifles have been "pinned" to render incorrect bolt reassembly impossible.  Interestingly, the bolt of one of my own Mk III Ross rifles remains in it its original "unpinned" state ... making it a relative rarity:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/650x582q90/923/Du6yBw.jpg)

The real problem with the Ross rifle, as a sporting rifle design modified for military use, was its exceptionally fine tolerances.  It worked very well (and with exceptional accuracy) when clean and fired with correctly dimensioned cartridges.  However, under trench warfare conditions, and with hastily mass-produced cartridges which were prone to being "out of spec", it was prone to jamming ... if not locking up almost irreversibly.  The Ross has been referred to as "The finest target and sporting rifle to fail miserably as a battle rifle."

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/814x142q90/923/N7al3U.jpg)
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 11, 2019, 04:34:05 pm
I should perhaps add that my ability to instruct in "period correct profanities" alluded to by General Pitspitr arises from the occasion when I tried to use my Ross in the Era of Expansion match at a Muster.  My problem on that occasion wasn't jamming in the chamber ... rather, the rifle was misfeeding so badly that I ended up having to shoot through using it as a single-shot!

 ???  ::)   :-\  :-\  :(
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 11, 2019, 09:59:09 pm
Howdy there Bull Schmitt, good to see you’re still around. I haven’t seen any of your posts in a while. I’m the guy that’s still trying to sell WASA but as you know it’s a hard sell. I’m guessing that ECSASS is probably the only genuwine, voted on to accept WASA rules WASA club around. My motto unfortunately, ‘There is no horse too dead that it can’t be beat.” As to your topic. I handled an original Ross at a gun show in NC last year, the seller wanted 1000.00 but it had the bayonet for it too. Nice clean rifle but after I read up some on them I didn’t jump. Have a good new year.
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Bull Schmitt on January 12, 2019, 01:01:49 pm
Howdy Baltimore Ed,

Yep I am still around. Since SASS got too expensive and the rules too complicated  and NCOWS doesn't seem to be active in Ohio I have not been to any matches in years. I miss the good old days!

Have a good new year.

Bull Schmitt
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Niederlander on January 12, 2019, 06:24:25 pm
I should perhaps add that my ability to instruct in "period correct profanities" alluded to by General Pitspitr arises from the occasion when I tried to use my Ross in the Era of Expansion match at a Muster.  My problem on that occasion wasn't jamming in the chamber ... rather, the rifle was misfeeding so badly that I ended up having to shoot through using it as a single-shot!

 ???  ::)   :-\  :-\  :(
Having witnessed that performance, I will only add that it was quite entertaining!  I would add that, according what I've read, a lot of the "low number Springfield" problems were also mostly caused by contract, war time ammunition failures.  The brass used in some cases was much too soft.  When the Army tested several of those rifles to destruction, the first blow up occurred with a fifty percent overload.  I don't know how you'd even get enough rifle powder of the period into a .30-06 case to cause that!
Title: Re: 1905 Ross Rifle part
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 12, 2019, 07:06:39 pm
Speaking of bolt action operational difficulties, during one our BAM shoots last year at ECSASS a fellow shooter proceded to shoot the match with ammo that was a little out of spec and was forced to ‘seat’ his bullets by using the bolt handle. He would go to the line and at the beep beat his bolt closed with his right hand for just about every darn round. There was some colorful talking going on and of course his stage times could have been measured with an hourglass. He said that he had fun but I don’t think so, the other troopers thought it was funny though. You know, I’ve noticed that in our sport we find great humor in the trials and tribulations of our fellow shootists.