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CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: MikeM. on November 26, 2018, 08:15:04 pm

Title: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 26, 2018, 08:15:04 pm
Covered this a little in an earlier post of mine but I want to confirm. Can I reload modern 44 Colt cartridges using 44 Special/ Magnum dies or do I need to get 44 Russian dies?? Will the 44 Special shell holder work? Does anybody know where I can find some load data for this cartridge?? I have looked for dedicated dies for this but 44 Russian is as close as I have found. Any tips or advise or even favorite loads would be appreciated. I plan to use a lead RNFP 200 grain .429/.430  bullet and unique powder. Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: R.M. Conversion on November 26, 2018, 09:49:21 pm
I use .44 Russian dies for this cartridge.  The Lee ones are modestly priced and work great, and come with a shellholder.

The Hodgdon site and manual have lots of loads for them, I use 200g cast (from Chey-Cast).  I started with black powder loads, then moved to smokeless, using the same BP-lubed bullets for both. 

I am also loading plated 200g bullets from Ranier, with the starting loads in the Hodgdon manual using Universal, Clays, HP-38 and Trail Boss and they shoot fine.  Still working up the optimum load for accuracy.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Back Roads on November 26, 2018, 09:50:37 pm
Mike,  You can reload the .44 Colt with .44 Spl. dies  The .44 Spl. shell holder will not work. It is too large for the .44 Colt.

I have never reloaded .44 Colt with Unique so can not recommend a load.  I load ffg Goex under a Mav Dutchman Big Lube bollit with good results at NCOWS matches. Have also loaded with Trail Boss with good results. I will put a link below with some load date to help get you started. It does not have Unique listed as the info comes from the Hodgdon web site and Unique is an Alliant product.
I know this is not a lot of information but I hope it helps.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Back Roads.

Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 27, 2018, 11:18:07 pm
Thanks Guys!!! Does anybody know what shell holder works best for it?? I have heard that a  30-30 shell holder works with it....
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Major 2 on November 28, 2018, 07:15:34 am
 Lee # 9
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: AntiqueSledMan on November 28, 2018, 05:31:06 pm
2nd on the Lee #9. I use the Lee 44 Mag Die Set, but I don't crimp with the seating die as I'm loading the 44 Colt Original with .451 Heeled Bullet. Fun cartridge to shoot, I'm using Black MZ. I think one could use Trail Boss also.

AntiqueSledMan.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on November 28, 2018, 06:02:54 pm
Unique would likely work, but I use a lot of Unique in other cartridges, so I try to save it when I can.  I've been using W231/HP38 for light (open-top appropriate) loads in my modern 44 Colt revolvers.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 28, 2018, 07:12:31 pm
Griff, would you mind sharing the actual loads you use with your modern open top 44 Colts?? I would appreciate it...... thanks everybody, I think I have that holder too!!
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Crow Choker on November 28, 2018, 08:12:02 pm
MikeM-Wonder why yer posting this again-same questions asked in your previous post, many answers were given to your like questions here on this posting. Not trying to be a wise guy, but go back and read the posts on your original post, the answers are there, nobody was lying to ya. ;D
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 28, 2018, 08:29:29 pm
Never thought anybody was lying , just wanted to see what other guys had to say about this and that post was on a different subject so some may not have seen it.. not trying to offend anybody.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 28, 2018, 08:37:24 pm
So no modifications have to be done to 44special/magnum dies to load modern 44 Colts then, right???
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on November 29, 2018, 10:38:25 am
So no modifications have to be done to 44special/magnum dies to load modern 44 Colts then, right???

I can add a bit to this. I tried using .44 mag LEE carbide dies to load .44Rus, for my 1889 Reichsrevolver, but it didn't size the neck down enough to hold a bullet. I had an old RCBS non-carbide .44 Mag sizing die and tried it. That RCBS die had a two-diameter profile and the forward narrower part caught enough of the neck to do the trick. This might not be a problem, or a solution, for your situation, but there it is.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on November 29, 2018, 11:21:42 am
Griff, would you mind sharing the actual loads you use with your modern open top 44 Colts?? I would appreciate it.

I'm reluctant to give specific load info.  I don't have a pressure barrel, nor have my loads been tested in a laboratory.  Besides that, I'm the proverbial "guy on the internet" who you shouldn't trust anyway.

I will note that I use Lee dies designed for the 44 Russian because that was recommended to me when I was getting started.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 29, 2018, 06:29:05 pm
I figured that the Russian dies would be a closer match...
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on November 30, 2018, 12:57:20 pm
I tried the Lee #9 and the Lee#3 shell holder this morning and believe that the #3 actually fits the 44Colt rims a bit better than the #9 . Just thought I would share that with you guys .
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 02, 2018, 09:27:41 am
About to order my Lee Carbide 44 Russian dies . I think I am going to go with a .430 200gr lead rnfp bullet from Missouri Bullet Company , Starline brass, and Trail Boss powder. Just out of curiosity, does anybody out there make a custom dedicated set of 44 Colt reloading dies??  Thanks for all the help guys!!
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 02, 2018, 12:17:39 pm
Can anybody tell
Me if the Lee factory crimp die for the 44 Mag, Special, and Russian will work on the 44 Colt or is the Colt’s casing too short for it??
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 02, 2018, 08:54:20 pm
Can anybody tell
Me if the Lee factory crimp die for the 44 Mag, Special, and Russian will work on the 44 Colt or is the Colt’s casing too short for it??


The LEE collet die depends on case length. It seems to me that The .44-40 LEE collet factory crimp die MIGHT work if shortened properly.

Alternatively, those Smiths that cater to reloaders of heeled bullets might have collet dies already done up to the right length. (Is it "Hoof Hearted", Gary Barnes?- having a seniors moment there!)
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 02, 2018, 09:03:49 pm
This is modern 44 Colt not the old heeled style. It is basically  a shortened 44 Special with a smaller rim.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Abilene on December 02, 2018, 09:13:29 pm
Can anybody tell
Me if the Lee factory crimp die for the 44 Mag, Special, and Russian will work on the 44 Colt or is the Colt’s casing too short for it??

I'm not sure about the seat/crimp die that comes with the 3-die set, although I feel like it should easily be able to seat down to 44 Colt.  But the .44 mag/spcl/russ. factory crimp die crimps them all:

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-44sp44ma.html
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 02, 2018, 09:37:41 pm
So you think the short 44 Colt casing will go far enough into the crimp die to get a good crimp??
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on December 02, 2018, 09:50:48 pm
I will comment that the standard Lee seat/crimp die, which applies a roll-crimp, has worked fine for me.  I use their collet-type dies with other calibers, and sometimes the carbide factory crimp/seating die in .45 Colt, but I haven't felt the need in the .44 Colt.  Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 02, 2018, 09:56:47 pm
Ok great! So there is really no need for the separate crimpling die. Sounds good to me
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 03, 2018, 11:41:32 am
This is modern 44 Colt not the old heeled style. It is basically  a shortened 44 Special with a smaller rim.

Yeah! I know. The collet crimps the mouth of the case - not the bullet.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 05, 2018, 06:30:51 am
I don't suppose the 44 Russian dies would also work for 44 Special too would they? I don't need the 44 magnum dies but it sure would be nice to only have to buy one set.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: AntiqueSledMan on December 05, 2018, 04:18:33 pm
You could contact Lee Precision, I'd think they could answer your question.

AntiqueSledMan.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 07, 2018, 06:02:38 am
Jackpot!! RCBS makes their cowboy dies in 44 Special/ 44 Russian !!!! The 44 Colt lies in between these two so these should work great!!! A little more pricey but this is probably how I will go...
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Trailrider on December 07, 2018, 10:21:53 am
I don't suppose the 44 Russian dies would also work for 44 Special too would they? I don't need the 44 magnum dies but it sure would be nice to only have to buy one set.

Unless you have an issue with the .44 Russian sizer die not resizing the .44 Spl case just ahead of the rim, the Russian die should work just fine. After all, the .44 Special could just be termed, ".44 Long Russian" and the .44 Magnum cartridge is really just a ".44 Xtra-long Russian."  ;)
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Crow Choker on December 07, 2018, 10:42:24 am
Jackpot!! RCBS makes their cowboy dies in 44 Special/ 44 Russian !!!! The 44 Colt lies in between these two so these should work great!!! A little more pricey but this is probably how I will go...

Glad ya got it figured out!! ;D
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Coffinmaker on December 07, 2018, 11:08:47 am

Hold on here just a minute folks.  All well and good for basic dies, but what about loading 44 Colt on a Dillon??  What size shell plate and will the dies we are contemplating function correctly on the Big Blue 650?? 

If we are to turn out 44 Colt in volume sufficient for CAS, there are obviously sever more considerations to investigate.
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Crow Choker on December 07, 2018, 12:18:23 pm
Hold on here just a minute folks------- there are obviously sever more considerations to investigate.

 :o :o :o Ahhhhh! Coffinmaker...don't complicate things yet.....Things are just workin out!!  ;D
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: MikeM. on December 07, 2018, 10:47:24 pm
Thanks for all the info guys , I got enough info for my needs anyway.... I wish I had a Dillon Progressive press...,
Title: Re: Modern 44 Colt
Post by: Coffinmaker on December 08, 2018, 10:33:37 am

AWRIGHTIE!!

See there!!  We need to get this data a pertains to "Big Blue" out there so our intrepid OP can make his Progressive Press selection from a base of knowledge.  Or at least some officious sounding wild ass guesses (WAGs) to get him started off on the right trax. 

Kant have someone wondering around trying to set up his (or her) progressive for 44 Colt and winding up with a bunch of stuff for 303 Brit or 38-55 now can we.

There can never be too much useless trivia.