Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: Tater Pickens on October 28, 2018, 09:15:19 PM
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just bought some new starline 44-40 brass. I know I will need to expand them to insert my .430 bullet but will I need to run them also through my resizing die as if they had been previously fired? As new they are a straight line case. I use a lee factory crimp die versus crimping in the bullet seating operation. Will the factory crimp die put the proper taper in the finished round or is that done by the resizing die?
Tater Pickens
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I don't use the Lee Factory Crimp die, but strongly recommend a roll crimp in .44-40. Adjust a crimp die so the case mouth is visibly curved and into either a crimp groove, lube groove or over the bullet ogive, but not so much that you bulge the case wall away from the bullet. A curved crimp results in better bullet "pull" which retards the movement of the bullet until the pressure has built up to a stable point of combustion.
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Yes, size the new brass. That will add the shoulder. Do one and check it in your firearm to see if it chambers. Shoulder has to be further back for some guns than others. What gun are you using? .430 bullet might be pretty tight in some Uberti chambers. Making a dummy round will answer that.
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just bought some new starline 44-40 brass. I know I will need to expand them to insert my .430 bullet but will I need to run them also through my resizing die as if they had been previously fired? As new they are a straight line case. I use a lee factory crimp die versus crimping in the bullet seating operation. Will the factory crimp die put the proper taper in the finished round or is that done by the resizing die?
Tater Pickens
If the new case will fit in my gauge and the chambers of my gun, I don't resize. My new Starline may not look necked, but it measures as having a step down in OD. They shoot fine, but fired brass has a more noticeable neck to it.
If you are using a .430 bullet, then do order the larger expander plug to match. That would probably be listed as 44 Special/Magnum.
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These new cases are not straight, they are gently tapered. If they fit the chamber of your firearms, all of them, you don't need to resize. What you will probably have to do is inside neck size your your bullet. I said 'probably' to be cautious. It is almost certain that you will have to open the neck of new cases for your bullet.
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Thanks fellas for your replies.
I inserted the new shells into both my 44-40 single actions and my cimarron 73 winchester repop. They fit right in with no resistance in all 3 guns, so I quess I will make a few dummy rounds with just expanding the neck to accept the bullet, then crimp with my factory crimp die and see where we are from there.
Thanks,
Tatetr
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Tater; Don't waste powder to "fireform" they will be good for service after loading. After the first time the slight shoulder will be apparent, and then a bit sharper upon resizing. Enjoy a great calibre!
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Fireform new brass by using it in main match ammo and plinking ammo, then they can be used for fine tuning for long range shooting or hunting loads if you do any of that with the caliber.
Accuracy seems a bit better in brass that has the shoulder and fitting the chambers better than the new straightwall tapered the way the come from Starline.
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You would think new brass should be good to go out of the box or sack, but they're not. Some times case mouth deformities are present, I've even seen some slightly out of round cases from major suppliers. Run em through the sizer die to prevent any headache's during the reloading process or some glitch when ya try to chamber a round. I even check length with a caliper, sort of a go-no go process. Most if not all revolver new brass is within specs for OAL, but can be a "Oh xxxx" type of situation if loading for semiauto that headspaces on the case mouth (such as 45 acp) or in some bottleneck rifle chamber with tight specs. I'm no expert on such cases as 44-40 as I don't shoot or reload for that caliber, but most calibers follow the same principles and rules.
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No need to complicate things. Just prime the new brass, flare the mouth to accept the bullet, load, fire, smile, repeat. The only time I've run new 38-40 or 44-40 brass through a sizer die is if the mouth of the case was damaged. Oh, and I size all my cast bullets for my 44-40's .430". My old Uberti revolvers chambers will even accept .432" sized bullets.
CHT
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I have reloaded new 45 Colt cases without sizing them and there was no neck tension - you could actually turn the bullet. But that wasn't 44-40, which I suppose could be different.
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Ustab that u could reload 44/40 without resizing. Last batch I got had to be resized be4 they would fit in gun.
wM1
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Say Hey Tater ;D
New brass should ALWAYS be run through your Sizing die before first use. If you visit Starline's site, you will see Starline also recommends all their brass be sided FIRST.
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Say Hey Tater ;D
New brass should ALWAYS be run through your Sizing die before first use. If you visit Starline's site, you will see Starline also recommends all their brass be sided FIRST.
There has long been sharp disagreement about sizing new brass. Personally, I believe that it depends. If the new brass drops freely into and out of the chamber, I see no need to fully resize new brass. On the other hand, the mouths of new brass is often dented due to the way that it is stored and shipped. For that reason, I often run the mouths of the brass into the sizer to straighten it out, then bell it as usual.
Here is a quote from the Starline website:
Does one need to full-length size brass prior to loading?
Generally speaking, Starline cases require no resizing prior to loading. Due to variances in diameter of different bullet types, it is a good practice to size the case only as far down as the bullet seating depth. When full length sizing is required, it will be noted in the box with the brass. The only Starline cases requiring full length sizing prior to loading are the .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, and sometimes the .45 Colt(Depending on the bullet diameter to be used).
CC Griff
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Say Hey Tater ;D
New brass should ALWAYS be run through your Sizing die before first use. If you visit Starline's site, you will see Starline also recommends all their brass be sided FIRST.
There has long been sharp disagreement about sizing new brass. Personally, I believe that it depends. If the new brass drops freely into and out of the chamber, I see no need to fully resize new brass. On the other hand, the mouths of new brass is often dented due to the way that it is stored and shipped. For that reason, I often run the mouths of the brass into the sizer to straighten it out, then bell it as usual.
Here is a quote from the Starline website:
Does one need to full-length size brass prior to loading?
Generally speaking, Starline cases require no resizing prior to loading. Due to variances in diameter of different bullet types, it is a good practice to size the case only as far down as the bullet seating depth. When full length sizing is required, it will be noted in the box with the brass. The only Starline cases requiring full length sizing prior to loading are the .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, and sometimes the .45 Colt(Depending on the bullet diameter to be used).
CC Griff
I guess as long as yer resizing the the upper portion of 50-100+ new brass regardless of make, ya might as well do the entire case. Still contend that even if they may fit in the cylinder/chamber as they come from the factory, there is always the one or two that will/may surprise ya necessitating having to pull the bullet and having to full length resize. I don't know if those of you who don't want to resize are taking every case any checking if they fit in your particular firearm or not, if so, the time involved in doing that plus maybe sizing the mouth only--well that's no time saver. Resize the entire case and be done with it. Just my opinion and two cents. As has been said "To each their own"! ;D
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"To each their own"! ;D
You are correct. Some years ago, someone made a convincing argument that the initial full-length resize reduces case life, although I don't recall the details. I'll have to admit that I've never had personal experiences to support that, but that was when I developed my practice. Like I said, there's a lot of disagreement, but I very much doubt that it makes a lot of difference. I load 44-40 WCF for five guns (3 Ubertis, one Pietta and one Rossi) and my practice has never caused a problem. Most of the time when this topic comes up, I just shrug my shoulders--knowledgeable handloaders fall on both sides of that argument and I'm somewhere in the middle. To each their own!
CC Griff
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I don't think there's a thing in the world wrong with sizing new brass, I just think it's a waste of time, for me anyhow. Ask yourself- why would a brass manufacturer produce brass that will not chamber or hold a bullet in place without first being sized? But as has been said, to each his own.
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... Ask yourself- why would a brass manufacturer produce brass that will not chamber or hold a bullet in place without first being sized?...
And yet, in some cases, they do.
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Mine are going to get sized anyway because that is the first station on the Dillon which primes them anyway ;D
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Say Hey Tater ;D
New brass should ALWAYS be run through your Sizing die before first use. If you visit Starline's site, you will see Starline also recommends all their brass be sided FIRST.
Except for the 44-40, for which the makers are inconsistent about throat and bore diameters. Sizing (new brass) when bullets are .430 is just creating a problem for yourself.
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There has long been sharp disagreement about sizing new brass. Personally, I believe that it depends. If the new brass drops freely into and out of the chamber, I see no need to fully resize new brass. On the other hand, the mouths of new brass is often dented due to the way that it is stored and shipped. For that reason, I often run the mouths of the brass into the sizer to straighten it out, then bell it as usual.
Here is a quote from the Starline website:
Does one need to full-length size brass prior to loading?
Generally speaking, Starline cases require no resizing prior to loading. Due to variances in diameter of different bullet types, it is a good practice to size the case only as far down as the bullet seating depth. When full length sizing is required, it will be noted in the box with the brass. The only Starline cases requiring full length sizing prior to loading are the .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, and sometimes the .45 Colt(Depending on the bullet diameter to be used).
CC Griff
The universal expander die has a taper that allows using it to repair out-of-round case mouths without sizing the entire case. In any event that must be done from inside the case mouth, not with a regular sizer working from the outside.
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just bought some new starline 44-40 brass. I know I will need to expand them to insert my .430 bullet but will I need to run them also through my resizing die as if they had been previously fired? As new they are a straight line case. I use a lee factory crimp die versus crimping in the bullet seating operation. Will the factory crimp die put the proper taper in the finished round or is that done by the resizing die?
Tater Pickens
I have never resized any of my new Starline cases. Your mileage may very! Fit fine in all of my 44-40 chambered firearms.
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I have reloaded new 45 Colt cases without sizing them and there was no neck tension - you could actually turn the bullet. But that wasn't 44-40, which I suppose could be different.
How about the .44, which is what this thread is all about?
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Well, ....... I have now heard everybody's arguments, both "for" and "against" resizing as the first step when loading 44-40 cases.
Since I only use 44-40 cases to make 45 Colt cases that seal the chamber, it's all moot. Good reading, but moot at least ..... for me.