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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Niederlander on October 28, 2018, 11:59:10 am

Title: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: Niederlander on October 28, 2018, 11:59:10 am
Gentlemen,  I was just notified by e-mail that What Price Glory has a new Boer War Bandolier.  If I wasn't such a computer imbecile, I'd post a link to it.  Like all his stuff, it looks good.  You can find it on e-Bay by searching Boer War Leather Bandolier.
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: smoke on October 28, 2018, 03:08:54 pm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boer-War-Leather-Bandolier/232978926225?hash=item363ea04a91:g:r-IAAOSwdrhb0OEQ:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/r-IAAOSwdrhb0OEQ/s-l500.jpg)

Probably best to buy it directly from the WPG website....puts a little cash in the forum's pocket.
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: pony express on October 28, 2018, 05:55:01 pm
Well, it's not the one with the bullets protruding out the bottom of the pouches-but it'll work.
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on October 28, 2018, 06:13:26 pm
Looks like it's for .303 Brit.
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: smoke on October 28, 2018, 06:50:35 pm
Looks like it's for .303 Brit.

Sir Charles, it says it is patterned after one issued ot some Boer units.  Jerry Lee generally knows his stuff so I would assume there is some documentation for this pattern.

Let me see if I can find some pics of Boer issue bandoleers. 
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: pony express on October 28, 2018, 07:12:15 pm
I thought about getting one of the British type ones, but was concerned if the tapered pouches for the .303 would fit properly with the "straighter" Mauser cartridges. I suppose that could be a problem with this one too.
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 29, 2018, 01:59:49 am
Gentlemen, to clarify ... as stated in the eBay listing for which Smoke provided the link, this new WPG offering is indeed designed for Mauser cartridges in clips, as used by the Boers.


For British Empire impressions, the leather bandolier you'd need would be the Pattern 1888 bandolier -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/566x794q90/923/vVOnKk.jpg)

No reproduction of the P'88 bandolier is offered by WPG, that I can see.

It is listed by IMA for US$39.95  - https://www.ima-usa.com/products/british-victorian-cavalry-303cal-bandolier?variant=26169557701 (https://www.ima-usa.com/products/british-victorian-cavalry-303cal-bandolier?variant=26169557701) but currently showing as "Out of Stock").
 
However, versions of it are often seen on eBay -   https://www.ebay.ie/itm/United-Kingdom-Boer-War-Pattern-Leather-Bandolier-Star-Wars-Tusken-Raiders/332135494414?hash=item4d54d1730e:g:~eUAAOSwtfhYrcXx:rk:2:pf:0 (http:// https://www.ebay.ie/itm/United-Kingdom-Boer-War-Pattern-Leather-Bandolier-Star-Wars-Tusken-Raiders/332135494414?hash=item4d54d1730e:g:~eUAAOSwtfhYrcXx:rk:2:pf:0)

British and Empire troops also used Mills web bandoliers/belts, in one of two configurations ...

One type was very similar (if not identical) to the khaki US 1894 Mills 100-round double-loop belt for .30-40 Krag cartridges (indeed, the external dimensions of the .30-40 and .303 cartridges are very close).  As you likely know, this belt could either be configured to wear as a waist-belt or lengthened to wear as a bandolier.

Here is a Lieutenant of the Imperial Yeomanry wearing one as a bandolier -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/367x600q90/922/FuKf1a.jpg)

And this Trooper of the Canadian Mounted Rifles is wearing one as a waistbelt, together with a standard-issue Pattern 1888 leather bandolier -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/789x700q90/921/A2GQRn.jpg)

A reproduction of this type of Mills belt/bandolier is offered by various vendors, including What Price Gory ... although to the best of my knowledge all of these reproductions have the double loops sewn onto the web belt, rather than being woven integrally with it as the originals were made - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mills-M1894-100-round-Cavalry-Cartridge-Belt-for-30-40-Krag-Khaki/232424532529?hash=item361d94ea31:g:374AAOSwwWdZeAlm:rk:7:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mills-M1894-100-round-Cavalry-Cartridge-Belt-for-30-40-Krag-Khaki/232424532529?hash=item361d94ea31:g:374AAOSwwWdZeAlm:rk:7:pf:0)

The other type of Mills bandolier used by BritishEmpire troops during the Boer War was a 100-round single-loop bandolier.  These are not very good images, but the web bandoliers you can see on these Canadian Mounted Riflemen appear to be this type - note that they do not appear as "bulky", and do not protrude so far from the body, as the double-loop type shown above -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/700x458q90/924/3LNwfu.jpg)

What Price Glory has recently begun offering a reproduction of this type of Mills bandolier, also.  Interestingly, this product IS produced like an original, with the the loops woven integrally with the web belt - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mills-100-round-Bandolier-Khaki/332490747572? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mills-100-round-Bandolier-Khaki/332490747572?)
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: smoke on October 29, 2018, 05:13:21 am
RSJ, via the WPG website and not ebay.

http://onlinemilitaria.net/products/4280-UK-Boer-War-Pattern-Leather-Bandolier-Tusken-Raiders-Stars-Wars-/

(http://onlinemilitaria.net/old/pic/Boer_War_Bandolier.jpg)
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: smoke on October 29, 2018, 05:19:35 am
Excellent pictures btw RSJ!!!

I have that 100 rnd bandolier and it is excellent.  I bought it off of ebay but I cannot find the it on the WPG website.

Original British issue mills belts sometimes had leather flaps over the belt loops.  It appears as if they took the leather from a pattern 1888 bandolier and put them on the mills belt.  I don't know if this was done by the troop saddler or issued that way.
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 29, 2018, 05:19:54 pm
Smoke, when I was composing that post I was sure WPG had copies of the P'88 leather bandolier, but when I looked (on both the website and eBay store) several searches failed to find that listing!  (Not the first time I have been unable to find something on the WPG website that they do carry, I might add ...)
I use a repro Pattern 1888 bandolier, of course ...  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/544x600q90/922/GQqniM.jpg)

(Mind you, I used to have two each of the P'88 and the earlier P'82 bandolier (for .577/.450 Martini-Henry cartridges, of which the P'88 was just a down-sized version.) However, when our local military unit's Regimental Museum wanted to get a repro P'88 bandolier for a Boer War era display, I provided them with the correct link for ordering one - and even specifically cautioned them to avoid buying the P'82 version - they went ahead and bought ... you guessed it ...the less expensive P'82 version ... which they then went ahead and used in the exhibit anyway.  That offended my sensibilities so much that I gave them one of my P'88 bandoliers in exchange for the P'82 they had ... so now I have three of the latter ...)

 :-\

I have a reproduction of the double-loop Mills web belt/bandolier as well, and of course had to also get one of WPG's newer single-loop bandoliers as well ...
Title: Re: Boer War Bandolier
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 29, 2018, 05:48:16 pm
After posting the above, it has occurred to me the I should add a "supplement" to the information concerning British and Empire bandoliers.

One other type of bandolier one sees in Boer War photos - probably just as commonly as the P'88 leather bandolier - appears to be a "web" bandolier, but is actually a relatively light and flimsy "refill bandolier", which was used for packing, shipping and distributing .303 cartridges in lieu of the traditional British method of packaging rifle cartridges in paper-wrapped 10-round packets.  These refill bandoliers were not designed to be used in the field as an ammunition carrying bandolier, but during the Boer War they got extensively used in that way.

Here are photos of two Canadian servicemen in South Africa with ammunition in such refill bandoliers ... if you look closely you can see that the chap on the right actually has two of them ... one worn over top of the other -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/783x725q90/922/ceHilm.jpg)

As you can perhaps make out, these were some sort of canvas or similar fabric, doubled over and then sewn across multiple times to form individual pockets for cartridges, which rode in the pocket somewhat loosely.

Despite being so prevalent in period photographs, this type of bandolier is not offered in reproduction form, to the best of my knowledge ... likely because it wasn't an official item of field kit, and because it was actually not very effective as a field bandolier, because the cartridges were actually quite easily lost from the jostling they received on the march.  (Indeed, the Boers actually kept themselves well supplied with .303 cartridges for use in captured rifles by simply gathering them up along the marching routes of British columns!)  Field modified examples of such refill bandoliers with flaps attached to help retain the cartridges in place.

I have often thought that this type of refill bandolier would be relatively easy to reproduce, given the correct dimensions ... although I must confess that I don't know if the width was continuous all the way around, not what method was used to attach the ends together ...  Here is a detail cropped from another Boer War photo showing a member of the Cyclist Corps wearing two such refill bandoliers, without any cartridges in them, from which the light construction is readily apparent -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/396x680q90/921/cqwGGq.jpg)

The photo that detail was cropped from is actually quite delightful, showing two cyclists with a tandem bicycle -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/907x700q90/924/XVMskM.jpg)