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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Doc Jackson on October 08, 2018, 09:15:59 pm

Title: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 08, 2018, 09:15:59 pm
Im looking for a tarred haversack with a roller buckle as issued to federal troops, any recommendations? Im more than willing to buy second hand too, if anybody has anything. Or would an un-tarred haversack be more appropriate?

Can anybody give me a list of the basic items to put in it.

Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Drydock on October 09, 2018, 09:20:04 am
What time period are you looking at?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 09, 2018, 09:35:02 am
Tared haversack, might indicate Union circa 1861-5

Tin plate ... 3 tine fork , surely a spoon , or perhaps a knife and spoon folder. a cup was often hung off the strap.
Housewife ...sewing kit
straight razor, maybe pocket mirror
Pipe "if you smoke "
pencil or pin ( dip tip stile )
candle holder perhaps  

Letter form home, a tintype or daguerreotype

maybe checkers or jews harp or harmonica....

hardtack and Salt pork & coffee bean bag  

sm. bible or Harper's weekly
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 10:07:49 am
Im interested in the 18th infantry and the fighting on the Boseman trail, from the summer of 66' through to the period before the start of "Hancock's War" and Crook's Black Hills expedition of 76'.

I know that in the Black Hills expedition of 76' alot of four button sack coats were issued, and from everything Ive read the huge uniform stockpiles left over from the civil war were issued in quantity through 1876 tapering off until exhausted in 1880 and even then they had alot of stuff on hand.  In the two pictures I have of Black Hills expedition of 76', I saw fairweather christian belts, a forage cap and possibly a 4 button sack coat. I got Dorsey's books about belts and another about belts and related equipment. Im pretty familiar with the small arms, accouterments, belts, pouches and the like, and the uniforms of my periods. Im lacking any real knowledge of the other equipment canteens, packs and haversacks.

I know I need different rifles and accouterments which Ive already have, and Im confident that I can use the same uniform and still be typical of the later period. Im going to get both a civilian hat probably brown or black and an 1858 forage cap for variety. Im not sure about the haversacks and canteens though, if I had to get different equipment so be it, but if possible I want as much cross over as possible.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 09, 2018, 10:45:49 am
The CW smooth side canteen was still in use in the SPAN-AM with a  khaki  cover... the haversack however had changed both in dimensions & materials.

In the time frame that you mention...I suggest the tared haversack CW era was use well in the conflict with the Lakota and Northern Cheyenne.
A great deal of surplus equipment served the troops....

But each Haversack was unique to it's owner, aside from common eating utensils, other contents were varied as to personal effects.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 10:52:15 am
the contents were all good suggestions, I play the harmonica, can you suggest a supplier for a period type?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 09, 2018, 01:45:57 pm
One person you could contact for a well-made and economical tarred haversack is Jay Richards at "Poor Richards' Historical Reproductions" in New Jersey - http://richardsreproductions.com/index.html (http://richardsreproductions.com/index.html)

I have gotten a number of items from him over the past few years, and he is a pleasure to deal with.  A few years ago, a group of us were putting together impressions of an Independent Company of Rifles, Canadian Militia, from the Fenian Raids period (1866-70) and had noted several different period photos from that time-frame showing Militia Riflemen with tarred haversacks which might have been an American pattern, but which also looked very much like they might have been a variation of the British Pattern 1850 haversack, albeit tarred and with a buckle and leather strap closure rather than the standard button closure for the flap.

At any rate, Jay was quite willing to produce similar haversacks for s, based on his existing P'50 haversack.  We were very pleased with the end product:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/914x700q90/924/2WRKSM.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/392x800q90/922/Zcu6oD.jpg)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 02:33:00 pm
Wow you really go all in on the impression, I know you do others too. Im starting out by going with the basic uniform and minimal fighting load and then later perhaps blanket and rubber blanket roll and winter clothing. If I budget everything right I should be able to do it in two years.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 09, 2018, 02:39:32 pm
Ebay have this one right now

ANTIQUE HARMONICA, THE SPORTSMAN, M. HOHNER 1871-1881


 https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-HARMONICA-THE-SPORTSMAN-M-HOHNER-1871-1881-/123401708557?hash=item1cbb50a40d
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 02:54:36 pm
Thanks for the tip, I cant afford it now but I'll keep an eye out for that type in the future.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pay Dirt Norvelle on October 09, 2018, 05:10:58 pm
Technically the Haversack was only supposed to hold food and eating accoutrements.  If you are looking for a US Federal one try some of the Civil War Sutlers such as Regimental Quartermaster and N J Sekela.   I know there as some other good Sutlers, but I can't think of them off the top of my head right now.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 09, 2018, 05:41:19 pm
Wow you really go all in on the impression ...

Yes, Im a bit of a fanatic when I do these ... although I do find that, in reality, it is generally simply not practical to shoot through a GAF-type skirmish in full uniform and kit ... and I generally find myself shucking down to "shirtsleeves order" to do that ... such as can be seen in this video taken at this years Grand National Muster ... it is the same Militia Rifles, sans tunic and kepi, with the fatigue/foraging-duty straw hat (... referred to, tongue-in-cheek, as a "cow's breakfast" ...) but much more comfortable in the humid heat of Nebraska at the end of June!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIDuA3_LW5A&t=75s&list=PL3RChRKXZ0aXDC5IT61aR_3im_22HK_gf&index=49

For example, my uniform and kit at the 2014 Muster was that of Fenian Raids-era Canadian Militia Infantry and this composite photo contrasts a "cool and collected" posed shot with the "hot and frazzled" appearance I had after actually shooting through a skirmish in full kit ...  :-\ ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/736x675q90/923/TD5sYy.jpg)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 05:42:46 pm
Ive come across some used haversack for sale that appear to be good quality but are a bit worn. Before I choose to go this route I have three questions. First when haversacks, packs, or similar equipment wore out or was damaged was it commonly repaired? or was it turned in and exchanged for a serviceable piece of equipment? Second, if the stuff was repaired, who would have done it, the soldier himself  or somebody else? Third what materials would I need?

 I already have canvas / leather needles, and awl, and a bunch of waxed thread I made; left over from from an alteration I made to my fairweather christian belt. I have some basic sewing skills and Ive recently worked with leather and the results were servicacble if not the prettiest work out there. How much different is it working with canvas? I read Stephen Dorsey's book on U.S. Army belts and in it he mentions that many belts with soldier made and done with minimal skill, would this also apply to uniform and gear repair?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Niederlander on October 09, 2018, 05:47:23 pm
If the damage happened during a campaign, I guarantee the soldier fixed it himself with whatever he had, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 05:57:49 pm
 RattlesnakeJack, I really like your attention to detail, thats what Im striving to do myself, so Im trying to read up as much as I can, so I can approach my intended impression with good information.

 Im reading as many books as I can afford to buy and Im currently finishing Frontier Regulars by Utley. Ive already devoured American military and naval belts, 1812-1902 and American Military Belts and Related Equipments by Dorsey, Campaign Clothing: Field Uniforms of the Indian War Army 1866-1871 by Rutledge, Packing Iron by Rattenbury, A Study of Colt Conversions and Other Percussion Revolvers by McDowell and the Osprey US Infantry in the Indian Wars 1865–91 by Field.

I have Forty Miles a Day on Beans and Hay: The Enlisted Soldier Fighting the Indian Wars by Rickey and Carbines of the Civil War, 1861-1865 by McAuley, on the way .
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 09, 2018, 06:04:00 pm
If the damage happened during a campaign, I guarantee the soldier fixed it himself with whatever he had, for what it's worth.

I remember we were provided with codura patching kits that had a glue and a few patches and sewing was and probably still is a 10 level task covered in the soldiers handbook, I repaired my own uniforms and equipment on occasion. I just wanted to be certain before I made any purchases, other than a two small holes and wear on the paint the haversack in question appears to be a good reproduction and could be easily made serviceable with minimal work.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: 38OVI on October 09, 2018, 08:43:59 pm
CD Jarnigan & Company and they also have the rubber blankets/ponchos
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 09, 2018, 11:24:27 pm
Doc Jackson: Sounds as if you think like me: "Can't have too many books ... or do too much research!"

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 10, 2018, 01:41:07 am

a few in no particular order

https://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg9b.html

http://www.fcsutler.com/fcblankhavers.asp

https://crescentcitysutler.com/

http://www.mercurysutler.com/haversacks.htm

Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 10, 2018, 08:45:32 am
Thanks for the advice everyone. I was able to secure a good haversack of the mid to late war style. Maker unknown, but it seems to be of good quality and is accurate, though a little worn. It has two small holes that can be easily darned and a 1 1/4'' tear that I'll put a whip stitch on. I just need to wash it repair the holes, and repaint it, all in it will be under $20.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 10, 2018, 10:58:48 am
I'm not sure what happened to my reply yesterday, but I'll post most of it again.
For the 1872 haversack, I'd recommend Tom Wilder (Little Muddy Traders) Williston ND followed by WPG. The contents were pretty well covered, except that I add unground coffee, sugar and hardtack and IF I'll be using it fairly soon side pork or unsliced bacon.

You might also visit the following page for supplier suggestions
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html)

I carry a harmonica too( Libby Custer documented them in, I believe,  Boot and Saddles) At Ft. Hartsuff there were Harmonica reed plates retrieved during "Sink" archeology. About the only thing you need to look for is a wooden body. If the harmonica has one it is period correct. Honer makes several good ones that are quite inexpensive.

In the way of books, the ones I recommend (in additions to some of the ones you named) are:
Army Blue and More Army Blue by John Langellier
The U.S. Army in the West, 1870–1880: Uniforms, Weapons, and Equipment and Uniforms, Arms, and Equipment: The U.S. Army on the Western Frontier 1880-1892 (2-Volume Set) by the late Douglas McChristian
A Dose of Frontier Soldiering: The Memoirs of Corporal E. A. Bode

Below are my 1876 kit. Like RSJ I remove a lot of it while shooting.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img411/5097/grandarmyofthefrontiers.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img211/5097/grandarmyofthefrontiers.jpg)

You might also visit the following page for supplier suggestions
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 10, 2018, 02:25:09 pm
Whats the loaded weight for your full marching kit? Also how much of a difference would you say there would be in the official load out vs what would have been commonly carried in the more stripped down campaign kit? Im sure it differed by season.

I wanted to build my impression by first getting:

. Hat ( Im considering a civilian hat in black or light brown )
. Model 1858 sack coat
. Model 1861 trousers
. Bootees
. Socks
. Wool shirt
. Drawers
. Canteen
. Belt Knife ( Im not sure which)
. Haversack Contents ( to include a pocket knife)
. Rifle sling

I already have:
. Fairweather Christian Belt
. Model 1861 Rifle ( with accouterments less bayonet and scabbard)
. Model 1873 Rifle
. Tarred Haversack ( just needs a few repairs but its otherwise accurate and appears to be well made)
. Model 1858 Forage Cap ( I definitely want to supplement this with a civilian hat, but I wanted to add some flexibility)


Later on I would like to add:

. Rubber Blanket or Poncho
. Wool Blanket
. Enlisted Foot Overcoat
. Muskrat Hat ( But Im not sure if these were in use from 66'-67' or 74'-76' )
. Mittens, woolen or fur?

I collected the guns a while ago, I also have a Model 1859 Sharps Carbine that I probably wont be using for this.  My Model 1861 rifle and accouterments are a thousand miles away with my sister, so until they return I want to focus on my 1876 impression. For my initial list can you think of anything Im missing?

Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 10, 2018, 03:20:56 pm
Whats the loaded weight for your full marching kit? Also how much of a difference would you say there would be in the official load out vs what would have been commonly carried in the more stripped down campaign kit?
Oh, it doesn't weigh all that much...for the first 100 yards or so. After that it weighs at least 2001 lbs.  ::)

In what I have shown there is very little that would have been in addition to the official load. The harmonica, Target record book and the Upton's Manual are the only things I can think of, but it is short the palmer brace. I'd do away with the books, extra shirt and the clothing bag and depending on how long I was to be gone, possibly the extra drawers. I might also eliminate the great coat, shelter half, pins, and poles, depending on what time of year and weather.

IIRC the Muskrat Cap didn't become official issue until sometime in the 1880's. The mittens and winter hat were private purchase items during the 60's & 70's so you can pretty much use whatever you choose.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: 1961MJS on October 10, 2018, 03:48:35 pm
Hi

Blockade Runner's and several other places have plate sized steel frying pans (not cast iron, light ones) that can be used to eat from and to cook with. I also have several of the knife, fork, and spoon pocket knife setups that are great, and small.  Extra Socks, and possibly an extra shirt are all the clothing I would take.  The poncho and blanket are useful.  I would take a 7 inch or smaller butcher knife, possibly in a sheath or in your haversack.  Don't need a broadsword when you got a rifle.  A decent cup comes in handy.  I would also suggest a rag or one of those 4-5 inch long whisk broom things to clean plates etc with.  I had one, don't remember what it was called, but it worked great.  Take soap of some sort, matches in a metal match box.  Take a sewing kit, I have a $7 one and a more than $20 one, but both are about a like. 

More, but that will help a little.

Later
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 10, 2018, 07:54:46 pm
a housewife is simple and fun project....

some pillow ticking or scrap shirt material  , and I used to use the saved off cut when I hemmed my (issue) trousers....
sew into pocket add thread,  a couple of needle,  a few buttons and Bob's your Uncle.

A little pair of folding scissors or maybe some from a fingernail trim kit is nice.   
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 10, 2018, 07:58:51 pm
a housewife is simple and fun project....

some pillow ticking or scrap shirt material  , and I used to use the saved off cut when I hemmed my (issue) trousers....
sew into pocket add thread,  a couple of needle,  a few buttons and Bob's your Uncle.

A little pair of folding scissors or maybe some from a fingernail trim kit is nice.   

Thats a good idea, is it hand or machine sewn? Any suggestions on the types of buttons I might want to add?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 10, 2018, 08:10:23 pm
when I campaigned , a lustrum or two ago, I preferred 7" skillet to a plate ...served both to cook in and easy handle to eat from.
Granted, my kit was off horse back and I used saddle bags.
But I scaled back the weight, ...look for a well used silver of bar soap from the shower, skip tin foods, use everywhere lucifer's (matches)Oh and dip the tips in paraffin serves both to water proof and aid a longer burn for stubborn kindlin ignition...
and small piece of lighter knot or a piece of canvas soaked in paraffin and dried.
A cotton hand towel ( not terry cloth )  and a few sheets of sanitary papers .... I found cigarette  rolling papers made reasonable looking
PC substitute less the PC splinters...
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 10, 2018, 08:13:55 pm
Thats a good idea, is it hand or machine sewn? Any suggestions on the types of buttons I might want to add?


hand sewn is cool , machine sewn is a bit faster and acceptable. 

as to buttons ,  shell , bone , wood are all good , there repo's of the stamped metal buttons , and pewter are also available  
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 13, 2018, 01:52:05 pm
You owe it to yourself to get the Douglas McChristian books.  However, wait until Christmas time and get the 2 volume set from Oklahoma Press.  It's usually like $10 plus shipping then.

https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Army-West-1870-1880-Equipment/dp/0806137827

https://www.amazon.com/Uniforms-Arms-Equipment-Frontier-1880-1892/dp/080619961X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=EVP1QENQEZE5SSSDM326
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 13, 2018, 05:49:00 pm
I just my my haversack in the mail today, hand washed it and its hanging to dry now. Does anyone know if soldiers marked their names on their field gear at this time? If so what would have been some common methods?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 13, 2018, 07:10:23 pm
Where did you get the haversack from?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 13, 2018, 09:49:58 pm
Obtained it secondhand from someone, he mentions above ...
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 13, 2018, 10:16:39 pm
RSJ, he mentioned that he came across a few used ones that were for sale.  I was thinking, you know, a guy can never have too much gear, right?  RIGHT? :P :-X

Also, the video link you posted just shows a black square for me.  Does it work for you?

Anyone else having a problem playing it?

Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 13, 2018, 10:33:08 pm
...  the video link you posted just shows a black square for me.  Does it work for you?

The video link works fine for me. 

Here is the direct URL, if you want to click on it (if that works for you) or copy it and paste it into your browser address line:

https://youtu.be/jIDuA3_LW5A?list=PL3RChRKXZ0aXDC5IT61aR_3im_22HK_gf
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 13, 2018, 10:37:13 pm
RSJ, he mentioned that he came across a few used ones that were for sale.  I was thinking, you know, a guy can never have too much gear, right?  RIGHT? :P :-X




 Chris Sullivan at Stony Brook, he has a selection of consignments. The haversack was a bit beat up, but I had everything I needed to fix it and all in all Ive got a usable piece of kit for under $20. For a few dollars more I could have gotten a new low end haversack, but I preferred the leather closure and buckle on the used one.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: pony express on October 14, 2018, 07:33:40 am
A somewhat used, but well maintained piece of equipment makes for a better impression, anyway, rather than all brand new stuff.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Major 2 on October 14, 2018, 08:55:03 am
A somewhat used, but well maintained piece of equipment makes for a better impression, anyway, rather than all brand new stuff.

Ditto.... Salty is the word I use,  The contrary being "Fresh Fish "

while I don't care for " Original Finish " firearms  some folks pay extra for.
 However, good honest " earned" patina is appropriate, on firearms and in particular accouterments.


I have a beater but serviceable OSNABURG  haversack ....  I traded for it at Gettysburg with a Reb casualty to replace my lost tared sack.


there is a bit more to the story....  ;) 
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 14, 2018, 09:50:58 am
Its going to be repainted, so it will look somewhat fresh, but you can also see the repairs and darning. I figure after a few outings the paint will break in somewhat and it will all look fine.

I repaired the tear with a whip stitch and darned the small holes as well as my patience would allow, darning can be tedious. I may start painting tonight. In case anybody is curious I went with a black latex satin paint, it seemed just shiny enough. I post pictures of the results.

I wonder if people did repaint the stuff or was it just replaced?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 14, 2018, 05:31:38 pm
Pitspitr, what model boots are you wearing?  1872 Boote?  Who made them?

Thanks.

I'm not sure what happened to my reply yesterday, but I'll post most of it again.
For the 1872 haversack, I'd recommend Tom Wilder (Little Muddy Traders) Williston ND followed by WPG. The contents were pretty well covered, except that I add unground coffee, sugar and hardtack and IF I'll be using it fairly soon side pork or unsliced bacon.

You might also visit the following page for supplier suggestions
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html)

I carry a harmonica too( Libby Custer documented them in, I believe,  Boot and Saddles) At Ft. Hartsuff there were Harmonica reed plates retrieved during "Sink" archeology. About the only thing you need to look for is a wooden body. If the harmonica has one it is period correct. Honer makes several good ones that are quite inexpensive.

In the way of books, the ones I recommend (in additions to some of the ones you named) are:
Army Blue and More Army Blue by John Langellier
The U.S. Army in the West, 1870–1880: Uniforms, Weapons, and Equipment and Uniforms, Arms, and Equipment: The U.S. Army on the Western Frontier 1880-1892 (2-Volume Set) by the late Douglas McChristian
A Dose of Frontier Soldiering: The Memoirs of Corporal E. A. Bode

Below are my 1876 kit. Like RSJ I remove a lot of it while shooting.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img411/5097/grandarmyofthefrontiers.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img211/5097/grandarmyofthefrontiers.jpg)

You might also visit the following page for supplier suggestions
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33884.0.html)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 14, 2018, 09:01:26 pm
M-1872 Mounted Boot.
Missouri Boot and Shoe
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 14, 2018, 09:25:09 pm
Meant to type boot...not sure what I was thinking.   ::)

That is a good looking impression.  I assume that is what you do at the fort?  You should do a thread on that impression.  It would be very interesting to get the details.

I'm kinda hijacking the thread here but if you are doing infantry, why the mounted boots?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 14, 2018, 09:29:58 pm
Hijack all you want, I'd be very interested in the whats and whys behind the details of the impression.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 15, 2018, 09:29:14 am
I'm kinda hijacking the thread here but if you are doing infantry, why the mounted boots?
Good question.
Most of the time while actually at the fort I do wear the infantry shoes. They were also made by Missouri Boot and Shoe.

Although Fort Hartsuff was an Infantry only post, there were mounted boots found when the sinks were archeologically excavated so when I'm doing a field impression I wear the mounted boots to keep the bottom of my trousers and socks cleaner.

Also in case you hadn't noticed, I'm wearing the experimental trowel bayonet too. That's because Company A of the 23 infantry was stationed at Fort Hartsuff in 1876 and at that time they were issued the trowels to evaluate them.

I'll try to post a thread detailing the uniform and equipment I'm wearing in the photo's. It just won't be this morning however. I'm not a great typist and it'll take a little time.

In the mean time, let me mention that It's generally accepted that Rattlesnake Jack, and to a lesser degree, I go to a higher level of research, authenticity and completeness when it comes to our "kits". Please don't make the assumption that everybody goes to this much trouble and that you would be out of place a GAF muster if you don't. We certainly encourage you to make the effort if you are so inclined; however, we don't have a uniform requirement. We just want you to make an effort to dress in Victorian era clothing
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 15, 2018, 12:46:58 pm
Pitspitr....thanks for the answers!   Makes sense.....Uncle Sugar ain't paying for it!

Some where I have a painting/drawing of troops wearing what appears to be a 1872 pattern boot like yours although it could be artillery boots but they are infantry in the Apache wars.  Supposed to be based on an actual picture.  I will see if I can dig it out.

I did notice the trowel bayonet.  Nice touch.

Looking forward to the write up.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 15, 2018, 01:50:05 pm
  You should do a thread on that impression.  It would be very interesting to get the details.
See the "Ask and ye shall receive..." thread
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,61825.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,61825.0.html)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: 1961MJS on October 15, 2018, 01:53:07 pm
Hi

I have 3 pair from Missouri Boot and Shoe now, I have the 1872's I wore at the 2018 Muster, a second pair that are only 12 inches tall to wear in "real life" and a pair of high end brogans to wear with Botas for post Civil War.  Wearing boots custom fit to your feet is a great thing.  Both of the new pair have modern soles and heels.

Later

Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 15, 2018, 02:20:53 pm
I finished painting the haversack, let it set overnight next to my woodstove and in the morning went over it with a stiff brush to rough up some of the shine. Im happy with how it turned out.

Here it is will my kit so far, my sack coat will be in next month. Im going for the bootees next.
(https://image.ibb.co/dmfQRL/20181015-141556.jpg)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 15, 2018, 02:38:04 pm
Nice!

Any chance you can join us for the Grand Muster?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 15, 2018, 02:48:57 pm
Nice!

Any chance you can join us for the Grand Muster?

Unfortunately no, I wish I could. My sister's wedding is around that time.

I am interested in figuring out how to find or have events in my area. Im right by Fort McHenry and while not the frontier, it did have troops stationed there during our period and from what I read it was used as a storehouse and barracks primarily. I think it might be fun to  participate in some sort of 1870's event.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 15, 2018, 02:53:08 pm
Well, keep it in mind for next year.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 15, 2018, 03:05:53 pm
Well, keep it in mind for next year.

I had one question for next year. Ive flown with guns before, but how would I get my ammunition out there? Would I just arrange to buy some from another person attending or just shipped my stuff?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 15, 2018, 04:27:50 pm
I finished painting the haversack, let it set overnight next to my woodstove and in the morning went over it with a stiff brush to rough up some of the shine. Im happy with how it turned out.

Here it is will my kit so far, my sack coat will be in next month. Im going for the bootees next.
(https://image.ibb.co/dmfQRL/20181015-141556.jpg)

Nice...is the a WPG prairie belt?

Is that a cadet rifle?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 15, 2018, 04:29:07 pm
I had one question for next year. Ive flown with guns before, but how would I get my ammunition out there? Would I just arrange to buy some from another person attending or just shipped my stuff?

You can travel with it or you can ship it to someone out there or maybe pick up at UPS? 
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 15, 2018, 04:57:31 pm
Its is a WPG belt, I added three lines of stitching to the end, it was my first try at sewing leather so the lines arent exactly straight. I also had to do some finishing work on the belt plate, so it would line up correctly. No it isnt a cadet, its a standard 52'' OAL rifle.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 15, 2018, 05:08:30 pm
I never noticed the lines...looks good from here!

What was up with the belt plate?
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 15, 2018, 05:17:01 pm
The plate was rough cast and the two ends didn't line up properly but it was an easy fix.

My rifle isn't exactly perfect, it has the M79 rear sight.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Pitspitr on October 16, 2018, 05:58:09 am
I've had folks ship their stuff to themselves at my address
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 17, 2018, 05:03:20 am
The plate was rough cast and the two ends didn't line up properly but it was an easy fix.

My rifle isn't exactly perfect, it has the M79 rear sight.

Thanks for the info....how did you find the sizing?  I have bought cartridge belts on line, gone by the makers sizing recommendation and have found them a little too small. 

Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 17, 2018, 06:45:45 am
The sizing seemed to be accurate.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 18, 2018, 11:55:23 am
Any Idea on the amount of coffee, bacon, and hardtack I should have? what were the portioned sizes issued. Im making hardtack today.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on October 18, 2018, 03:40:46 pm
I did my first attempt at hardtack today, made nine 3x3 pieces.
(https://image.ibb.co/e55jRL/20181018-144157.jpg)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: smoke on October 18, 2018, 04:26:14 pm
Looks good....need some beans and coffee. ;D
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: 1961MJS on December 15, 2018, 09:48:49 pm
Hi

You mentioned knives.  Check Crazy Crow for already finished Green River knives.  Since you have a Colt 45 and a Trapdoor, you no longer NEED the broadsword.  I have one of these that I use around the kitchen:

https://www.crazycrow.com/hunters-knife/green-river-hunter-knife-5in-blade (https://www.crazycrow.com/hunters-knife/green-river-hunter-knife-5in-blade)

There are other great ones on around that one.

Later
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Grenadier on December 22, 2018, 07:34:18 am
Pay attention to the rivers in the hanles of those Green River knives. If you want historically accurate l, then you want ones with five pins, not the three brass cutler rivets.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: 1961MJS on December 22, 2018, 03:49:33 pm
Pay attention to the rivers in the hanles of those Green River knives. If you want historically accurate l, then you want ones with five pins, not the three brass cutler rivets.

Yes, the Snake River ones have the right number of rivets.  You COULD buy the Green River blades, remove the temper from the right parts of the handle and drill new holes.  I've done it to put a brass tube at the butt of a knife I was making.  I didn't remove the temper from much of the blade and I dindn't re-temper it.  It's still in work so I have no clude if I SHOULD have re-tempered the blade.

Mike
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: LongWalker on December 24, 2018, 07:55:19 am
Just a thought on tempering.  Rather than drawing the temper then re-tempering the blade after drilling the holes, you have a couple options.  Both start with marking the new pin holes: you can use a fine-pointed "permanent" marker, but the heat will sometimes "un-permanent the markings.  Any more, I mark the new pin locations with a carbide burr in a Dremel. 

Once the locations are marked, you can SECURELY clamp the blade to a piece of wood, then clamp the wood to the table of your drill press.  (Trust me, you don't want the bit to catch and the blade to be free-spinning.)  Drill the holes with a carbide bit. 

Or you can draw the temper only around the locations of the new holes.  Clamp the blade vertically in a metal vise.  Grip a 16d nail in a pair of vise grips and heat it red hot, then touch it to the new pin locations and hold it there til it cools.  Clamp the blade under the drill press and drill the new holes. 

Actually, when I think about it there is a third option: clamp the blade as for drilling, and put a new 16d nail in the chuck.  "Drill" using the new nail.  Friction will quickly heat the tip red hot, and draw the temper from the blade tang.  LET THE NAIL COOL, remove it from the chuck, and substitute your drill bit.  Drill the hole, then move on to the next. 
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Grenadier on December 24, 2018, 08:32:41 am
Seems like a ridiculous amount of work just to add pins to a knife. Patience and $25-$50 will land you an original knife. I’ve picked them up for as little as $3 at flea markets.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: Doc Jackson on December 24, 2018, 10:29:48 am
Im going to have to agree with grenadier, I'd rather just buy an original.
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: LongWalker on December 24, 2018, 12:06:52 pm
Around here, usetawas, you could find an original knife (or a knife made in the same manner as late as the 1930s), every couple weeks while out garage-sailing.  Now, not so much.  The past ten years I've averaged about 1-2 such knives every summer.  If I only wanted one, and would settle for whatever half-worn-out knife I found, that might be OK. 

But some years I'll go through 10-12 knives.  Instead of trying to locate something close to an original, it is more efficient in time and money to take a knife that is of the right general thickness, re-shaping the outline of the blade and handle, drilling for the correct pins, tapering the tang, and fitting a new, correct, handle.  (Other times I fit bone scales and go a bit bonkers carving them.  Not cost effective, but it makes the knife easy to identify if misplaced!)
Title: Re: Haversack recommendations
Post by: 1961MJS on December 24, 2018, 05:09:08 pm
Im going to have to agree with grenadier, I'd rather just buy an original.

Hi

I don't like to use original anything when playing a sport.  I have two Krags but those aren't being reproduced at this point.  If you have a drill press, it's not that hard.  I tried using a carbide bit and just wasted the bit, but I didn't do the nail first. 

Later