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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: Cimarron on March 19, 2018, 05:37:51 pm

Title: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on March 19, 2018, 05:37:51 pm
If this has been asked you will just have to excuse me.  Who is making .45-75 brass?  I have a couple of hundred rounds from several years ago but thought I would buy some more.  Apparently it is no longer available!  Thanks for any replies.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on March 19, 2018, 05:59:23 pm
Had the same problem when I first got my Uberti in .45-75, Jamison cartridge was out of sorts then too.  These folks make really nice brass, but it is expensive: http://rockymountaincartridge.com/ I have brass from both companies and like them both.  The RMC brass is thick as it is made on CNC type machines and not pressed.  Have had good luck with it and would not hesitate to order more.  Best of luck with it!!

P.B.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on March 19, 2018, 06:55:44 pm
Had the same problem when I first got my Uberti in .45-75, Jamison cartridge was out of sorts then too.  These folks make really nice brass, but it is expensive: http://rockymountaincartridge.com/ I have brass from both companies and like them both.  The RMC brass is thick as it is made on CNC type machines and not pressed.  Have had good luck with it and would not hesitate to order more.  Best of luck with it!!

P.B.

Made mine from 348 brass - Jamison was otherwise engaged at the time - it was time consuming but not particularly troublesome - I think I wasted 5 from 150 - thick brass is an issue with blackpowder loads - I reckon I lose about 5 grains space with the 348 stuff - Rocky mountain would likely be more? If Jamison ever makes it again I would like to get some with proper headstamp.   
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 09, 2019, 02:53:55 pm
One thing I have been wondering about , has Uberti 1876 sales dropped off since brass for the rifles has been hard to get at best . Wouldn't it be great if a large company like Uberti would order enough brass for all four cartridge sizes  from another company like Jamison or others and offer them for sale . It may even up the sales of their 1876 rifles if the brass to actually fire the rifle was available . Just a thought .,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: King Medallion on January 09, 2019, 03:23:42 pm
Good thought, DT. I think the problem with that is, at this time, what with the fact that no one is making the brass, and there are only a handful of us that show interest in these types of guns, it wouldn't be a wise financial move. This day in age belongs to the black gun. Auto's. There aren't enough of us back woods farm boys left to make it pay. The price of the guns are high enough as is without adding the cost of finding reloading components that are already near non-existent. I've been lucky enough to have found a couple hundred new cases for my rifle to hopefully last my lifetime. But I had to look hard and was at the right place at the right time too. Starline should listen. They make brass for caliber's I've never even heard of, yet won't make what is being asked for. I mean really, who shoots a 44 magnum anyway???
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on January 09, 2019, 03:34:47 pm
I'm surprised that Starline hasn't stepped up. Enough of us have certainly brougbt it to their attention...

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Buck Stinson on January 09, 2019, 07:05:40 pm
For the past 50 years, I've  made my .45-75 brass, by reforming .348 Win. brass.  Learned this from an old timer who had given me some of his reformed brass decades ago.  I do not own any of the modern reproduction rifles in this caliber.  I've  used this reformed brass only in original .45-75 caliber model 1876 rifles and carbines.  In the dozens of originals I've  owned and shot, I've  never had a failure in firing or extraction.  The .348 brass will not hold 75 grains of 2F black, but it will hold up to 68 grains on a compressed load.  Makes very little difference in the accuracy or killing power, when using the proper 350 grain bullet.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 09, 2019, 07:22:07 pm
For the past 50 years, I've  made my .45-75 brass, by reforming .348 Win. brass.  Learned this from an old timer who had given me some of his reformed brass decades ago.  I do not own any of the modern reproduction rifles in this caliber.  I've  used this reformed brass only in original .45-75 caliber model 1876 rifles and carbines.  In the dozens of originals I've  owned and shot, I've  never had a failure in firing or extraction.  The .348 brass will not hold 75 grains of 2F black, but it will hold up to 68 grains on a compressed load.  Makes very little difference in the accuracy or killing power, when using the proper 350 grain bullet.

Buck
I made my 45/75 brass for my uberti from 348Winchester brass I got on a visit to the US. Bought the brass then ordered the rifle (already had a 348 so it was never going to be a total waste). Am looking for more now - a local dude has 3 bags of 348 advertised - a bit pricey but do able (still waiting on a reply for that to confirm its there) --otherwise Starline is advertising 50/110 winchester which I understand is a base case we can use and might ba a little chaeper------

question is which way would you (and any other fellers too) go with this ---converting the 348 brass was easy and I only lost a few at the start figuring it out - reducing neck size has caused me making cases more pain than expanding em has (303 to 303/25 is a lot of work and I even broke a few making 38/40 from 44/40 --

anybody has made 45/75 from 50 calibre brass please throw yr opinion in on this ?   
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on January 09, 2019, 07:38:24 pm
I will throw my $.02 in here as well.  Been working at the local gun shop after retirement, one of those bucket list things.  It gives me the chance to talk to all kinds of folks about lots of different guns. King Medallion is right, if it ain't got a plastic stock on it, with the ability to hang everything from flashlights to kitchen sinks off the front there doesn't seem to be much interest.  Funny thing is when you do bring any of the old west guns out there is immediately a crowd asking questions.  Brass availability is serious, the two principle suppliers I knew of are either shut down or in the process of going out of business.  like lots of other folks here, I have let Starline know of the hope they would consider runs of the 76 cartridge brass.  Just doesn't seem to interest them.  Supplies have dried up very quickly after the products went out of production so there seems to be a steady if small demand but as far as I have seen no interest in any new suppliers.  Like most here these rifles are a favorite hobby of mine so I am constantly on the lookout for brass and associated support items to keep them shooting.  If anything comes across by me will share it here with everyone.  In the meantime lets hope and say a prayer that someone steps up and maybe just maybe Starline will add the 76 calibers to their lineup.


Keep ya powder dry.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 09, 2019, 08:54:48 pm
I will throw my $.02 in here as well.  Been working at the local gun shop after retirement, one of those bucket list things.  It gives me the chance to talk to all kinds of folks about lots of different guns. King Medallion is right, if it ain't got a plastic stock on it, with the ability to hang everything from flashlights to kitchen sinks off the front there doesn't seem to be much interest.  Funny thing is when you do bring any of the old west guns out there is immediately a crowd asking questions.  Brass availability is serious, the two principle suppliers I knew of are either shut down or in the process of going out of business.  like lots of other folks here, I have let Starline know of the hope they would consider runs of the 76 cartridge brass.  Just doesn't seem to interest them.  Supplies have dried up very quickly after the products went out of production so there seems to be a steady if small demand but as far as I have seen no interest in any new suppliers.  Like most here these rifles are a favorite hobby of mine so I am constantly on the lookout for brass and associated support items to keep them shooting.  If anything comes across by me will share it here with everyone.  In the meantime lets hope and say a prayer that someone steps up and maybe just maybe Starline will add the 76 calibers to their lineup.


maybe an update?
Grafs and Starline now listing 348 brass - around $1.75 per each  this is only in the last few days I believe
Starline website listing 50/110 and 50 Alaskan as available now and cheaper @ about $1.12 per each ---
So that makes 50/95 easy and 45/75 ok --the other two from 45/70 brass should never be a problem
my problem is getting them across 10,000miles of water and then through customs at the end of it

back to my other question - any guesses at the attrition rate reforming 50 Alaskan down to 45/75????? 


Keep ya powder dry.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on January 09, 2019, 10:30:07 pm
I have formed 45-75 brass from Starline 50-90 Sharps brass, but it involves more than just trimming and reforming. I had to narrow and thin the rims too, so it was somewhat tedious. In the end, though, they are perfectly formed.

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 10, 2019, 08:14:50 am
I can understand and even expect that finding brass for old antique firearms would be a problem , but the repo 1876 rifles are in production , and I am sure most owners want to shoot them .  Uberti invested in the production of these 1876 repo's you would think it would be in their best interest to have a supplier produce brass for their use .  Most of us here can and do cobble together our own brass and reloads , but many cant or don't reload . Just a thought ,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 10, 2019, 10:02:42 am
I can understand and even expect that finding brass for old antique firearms would be a problem , but the repo 1876 rifles are in production , and I am sure most owners want to shoot them .  Uberti invested in the production of these 1876 repo's you would think it would be in their best interest to have a supplier produce brass for their use .  Most of us here can and do cobble together our own brass and reloads , but many cant or don't reload . Just a thought ,,,DT

Thats good thinking DT - you would think it would have to be in Ubertis best interest to do it too - maybe there is a liability problem attached - they only warranty their guns for commercial ammo ? maybe that would come unstuck if they encourage unprimed brass ? 
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 10, 2019, 10:40:17 am
Well then having an ammunition company produce the four chamberings loaded to their specifications would behoove them . Its just a money deal the right amount will make any ammunition order  possible .,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on January 10, 2019, 10:54:40 am
I agree, Dusty.  I'd be interested to know if sales have dropped off in that caliber.  I imagine that the .45-75 was a less popular chambering in the Ubertis, so maybe they don't really care at this point.  I do still feel that, if someone stepped in and made brass, there would be a market.  Starline makes 56-50 Spencer (Taylor's centerfire) brass, which I imagine is a definite niche market too.

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on January 10, 2019, 07:26:28 pm
I agree with you all, with modern reproductions rolling off the assembly line there would seem to follow a source of ammunition and components.  I have noticed in the world of reloading that there has been some shifts in the past few years in what is available and what has been discontinued.  The strange thing is many items, like the 76 cartridges, have a steady demand even if small.  There are several cartridges available that are, in my humble view, are just as scarce in terms of firearms for them but still available.  Case in point, you can still get .455 webley even though there aren't any new production revolvers that I am aware of being made in this cartridge. Yet here we are with new rifles being made and no ammo in production.  It boggles this poor old farmer's simple mind.  Wish I could offer up better.  Hang in there all, hopefully someone will come out with brass to fit our rifles.

P.B.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 10, 2019, 11:34:58 pm
My sluething has unearthed 150 - 348W  Bertram cases cost about 2.25 per each - is about as good as I can do at the moment
Have read a lot of stuff uncomplimentary about Bertram brass - but untidy dont really matter as I will be cutting the end off and expanding to 45 anyway.
Just looking for any opinions on durability of this brand compared to others (dont matter what calibre - just anybody that loves it or hates it???)   


OR should I wait in the hope that somebody someplace makes a run of proper headstamp (that would be nice huh)
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 11, 2019, 04:19:59 am
Greyhawk the only experience I have had with Bertram brass was not good .  Was using it in a Sharps 45x120 the 3-1/4" case . Case splitting brittle inconsistent are the words I would use to describe it . Granted that case is hard on brass in the first place , but have not had the problems listed after using other brands . Have been thinking on purchasing 348  Winchester brass and using Unique as a powder and cornmeal on top as a filler wax capped ,  and fire form the cases in the chamber . Think Larry O described using this method with good results before . ,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 11, 2019, 07:55:57 am
Greyhawk the only experience I have had with Bertram brass was not good .  Was using it in a Sharps 45x120 the 3-1/4" case . Case splitting brittle inconsistent are the words I would use to describe it . Granted that case is hard on brass in the first place , but have not had the problems listed after using other brands . Have been thinking on purchasing 348  Winchester brass and using Unique as a powder and cornmeal on top as a filler wax capped ,  and fire form the cases in the chamber . Think Larry O described using this method with good results before . ,,,DT

Thanks for the feedback - I reckon I have heard similar before - has to be a reason that Bertram brass is sitting on the shelf I guess. All my 348 stuff has been winchester brand and had zero problems with it. Have to resize a little for the 71 to get it to feed easy but I load it up too. 

Fireforming 348 ? I just blow em out with blackpowder loads
Anneal well, Then I used three different expanders - 375,401,457
Cut to length (a little oversize they shrink in the forming) Anneal again, full length size die

You are thinking of a one off chamber sizeing then cut em to length? - that would be easy if they stretch out that far in one go - would need to be properly annealed I think .     
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Buck Stinson on January 11, 2019, 09:09:03 am
I agree about Bertram brass.  Great brass, but hard as a brick.  The necks must be annealed, or they will not last.  Same thing with .348 Win.  Tough stuff and will last through many reloadings, but as Greyhawk mentioned, these too should be annealed during the reforming process.  You loose fewer pieces of brass and it makes it much easier.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 11, 2019, 09:13:11 am
Hey--DT:
Yes, that is exactly the way that I did my brass.  In fact, .348 cases were the first brass that I got when I first got my '76.  At that time, I didn't know much about how to get head-stamped brass.  Later I picked up a bunch.  As far as Bertram goes, the cost was what made me shy away from it.  i never had any bad luck with it other than that.  Case life? Well I only got 20 rounds of the stuff and only lost one but later found it in the Barnyard all smunched up and useless.  If I had it to do over again, I wold stick to .348 brass.  I have both Winchester and Remington and have have no problems at all with either brand but that is just me I suppose.  Hope this helps y'all.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 11, 2019, 09:21:45 am
More goodies:

I, over time, got a gob of all that I needed--and want. As far as that .348 brass goes, I just keep loading and shooting wither it be smokeless or BP, it seems to like 'em both.  After the initial ritual of fire-forming, annealing and whatnot, everything seems to act normal(?) As I stated earlier, I got all I need but if I needed more, I sure would stick to .348 brass in either specie.  I don't think that I would hold my breath for Starline or Jamison or any of the rest of them to produce anymore if ever and as long as there is .348 cases available or at least until they dry up that would be the way that I would go.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 11, 2019, 01:38:38 pm
A question for Larry O  , did you trim the 348 cases before fire forming ? If yes how much ? Thanks ,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 11, 2019, 05:00:39 pm
D.T.
No. I ran them through my RCBS Trim and file die afterwards. If my memory serves me right ( and at my age now that may not be so good) I think that there could have been less than a quarter inch but can't remember.  You gotta realize all that work was done more than 5 and more like 10 years ago.  Sorry!  Just fire form them and run them through that Trim die.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 11, 2019, 05:57:34 pm
Thank you Larry O   ,  I have 20 empty once fired 348 wch brass on hand . I will try your method soon . I want about 2 or 3 hundred brass for my EHB 1876 45-75 . Have been ringing the steel gongs with it and that's is fun = eats up some ammo . ,,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 11, 2019, 06:53:46 pm
D.T.
Glad what little I had to offer could help.  I quite getting cases after about 4-500 rounds and still have some stashed that I haven't done anything with but one of these days I will have to dip in and use them.  Anyhow it is fun. One of my more interesting moments was when I found out that I could get 76 grains of 1½F into a Jamison case.  That turned out to be one of my better moments with regards to a loud BOOM and a heavy recoil but it did shoot clean and was quite accurate.  I got that info off an original box of factory loads.  Damn those Mounties must have been tuff buggers.  It also makes one wonder about the integrity of those folks at those factories what did the original loadings but guess that was a long ago anyway.  Have fun.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 14, 2019, 12:10:16 pm
Larry O  , my hunting loads for my 28" oct. bbl .45-75 1876  are loaded with 77 gr. by weight  Swiss 2ff and an original 350 gr. bullet .It is a stout load and yes I agree the Mounties or anyone firing that load in a SRC 1876 is in for a Blast /Boom /Recoil . Thank You for your input on the fire Forming the 348 brass . Had the EHB 1876 out for some target shooting yesterday afternoon using my target load around 65-66 gr. Swiiss 2ff and a 350 gr. bullet that load along with the Extra Weight of this Bull Barrel gun makes it a very pleasant shooter . Here is the old girl all cleaned up after the shoot .,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 14, 2019, 12:18:35 pm
DT:

I forgot to mention that it was Bullseye that I had  in under that Cream-of-Wheat when I test fired.  I guess it probably don't mean much as lng as the brass is fire-formed.  Also, I peaked at some of my loads and in the fire-formed .348 cases, I was able to put in 76 grains of Swiss 1½BP with a 0.020" card over it and as you say, the recoil is quite rewarding and I always think that it could be interesting to tangle with one of those ol Mounties at the firing range huh!
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Oregon Bill on January 21, 2019, 01:35:16 pm
Dang me that's a handsome '76, Dusty!    ;D
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 21, 2019, 04:08:23 pm
DT:

I forgot to mention that it was Bullseye that I had  in under that Cream-of-Wheat when I test fired.  I guess it probably don't mean much as lng as the brass is fire-formed.  Also, I peaked at some of my loads and in the fire-formed .348 cases, I was able to put in 76 grains of Swiss 1½BP with a 0.020" card over it and as you say, the recoil is quite rewarding and I always think that it could be interesting to tangle with one of those ol Mounties at the firing range huh!
          Thanks Larry O , I have some old 348 cases but will wait until I get some new brass in for fireforming . Will try some Unique powder about 6 or 7 gr. under the corn meal should do it . If the wind slows down a bit will burn some powder . ,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: dusty texian on January 21, 2019, 04:10:00 pm
Dang me that's a handsome '76, Dusty!    ;D
   Thanks Bill , I don't like carrying it around but on the bags its a sweetheart for sure .,,,DT
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 21, 2019, 05:54:35 pm
DT:
The only other thing that might be worth mentioning is that there is suppose to be a "Coke Bottle" shape at the head of the case when you use .348 brass.  Well, I did have that situation with the first firing but now with all my .348 cases that are now ..45-75 cases that shape has gone away at least in mine.  Don't know if this means anything other than the fact that this situation has not caused me any problems. Also I may mention that I have not lost any cases since the forming was done and after alot of shottings.  Needless to say, that .348 brass is some pretty tough stuff.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 21, 2019, 07:05:16 pm
DT:
The only other thing that might be worth mentioning is that there is suppose to be a "Coke Bottle" shape at the head of the case when you use .348 brass.  Well, I did have that situation with the first firing but now with all my .348 cases that are now ..45-75 cases that shape has gone away at least in mine.  Don't know if this means anything other than the fact that this situation has not caused me any problems. Also I may mention that I have not lost any cases since the forming was done and after alot of shottings.  Needless to say, that .348 brass is some pretty tough stuff.

Larryo
I was one "complained" about the 348 cases forming out of shape - all my 348 brass is winchester and it measures consistently .543 at the soild head - my fully formed cases measure .554 at the bulge (where wall joins soild head) so there is a quite noticeable swell there - (BTW when we google 348W case dimension the spec dimension for 348 at base is .553 -- the 50/110 parent case says .551) So if the parent brass had been made fuill sized ?? ------ I dont know what other brands measure (Starline - Hornady) ----winchester was the only choice when I bought mine. It is tough brass and now I have it formed out fully the thick necks have turned out to be a bonus - my rifle is very neat up the front end - cast boolits are just a neat slide fit in unsized case necks . I dont neck size but have made a little outside swage die and I run all rounds through that after loading - just in case I made a little bump on the neck in crimping ---like you have not lost any cases since I started shooting - some up to 6 or 7 loads and just looking nice.

   
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 22, 2019, 10:24:36 am
Greyhawk:
I don't know why my cases lost that "Bulge" but they did.  Maybe I had my tongue in my cheek just so--anyway, Any bulge that there is there sure don't hurt the brass any.  My cases are both Remington and Winchester and in both cases, they work just fine for me.  I think--just maybe-- that the Remington cases are a wee bit tougher than the Winchester ones but that is my own opinion.  Anyway, they are a darn good substitute for the real thing if and when those are available agin.  Thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 23, 2019, 11:00:40 pm
DT:

I forgot to mention that it was Bullseye that I had  in under that Cream-of-Wheat when I test fired.  I guess it probably don't mean much as lng as the brass is fire-formed.  Also, I peaked at some of my loads and in the fire-formed .348 cases, I was able to put in 76 grains of Swiss 1½BP with a 0.020" card over it and as you say, the recoil is quite rewarding and I always think that it could be interesting to tangle with one of those ol Mounties at the firing range huh!

Larry O
I formed my last batch of brass from 348 - just neck expanded it up - shortened it (too much, some of em shrunk a little bit after firing) and went shooting with blackpowder loads - took proly three cycles to get them blown out - but the rifle shot well enough to be fun with the fireform loads - when I switched over to heavy boollits (DT posted pics of Winchester 450grain x 90 grain pointy boolit loads) That load fetched them out pretty much on the first round - a little more the second go but not much.

466 grain CBE (shortened Lyman Postell) / 72 grains of my Cartidge no2 = got 1244FPS ---I had got up to 76 grains as an attention getter but accurracy a bit better with the 72g

When you do the cornmeal / bullseye thing do you fill the case right up or what ? I have never done that - a bit leery of fast powders in big cases I guess - I have stacks of red dot and WST powder here so could try it

Had a good day today! I went scratching around in the hidey hole where brass lives here and found 100 new 348 W cases! yippee! That gives me some over 200 for the 45/75 and plenty for the 348 as well - dont need to buy any more after all!

   
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 24, 2019, 09:20:21 am
Greyhawk:

Yep. I fill them up to the brim and then press in that wax plug.  I only use about a small dab of Bullseye as am a bit skittish on that fast stuff too but it works.  I looked inmy records and found that  used either 16 grains of Bullseye or 20 gains of Titegroup and the cornmeal and wax bit.  Also, one of the things that I found, in my nosing in my records was that 22 grains of 2400 worked really well in my rifle.  Not that would be good for a "Purist" who uses only BP but I did find that load is rather accurate.  I found that load listed in one of Ken Waters' books for the 45-60 and 45-75.  When I first got my rifle, I really did a lot of browsing and trying different loads.  I did find that 72 grains of Swiss 1½ was just as accurate as the 76 grain load and doesn't kick as hard so-- for whatever that is worth.  Have fun.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on January 25, 2019, 10:22:49 pm
Greyhawk:

Yep. I fill them up to the brim and then press in that wax plug.  I only use about a small dab of Bullseye as am a bit skittish on that fast stuff too but it works.  I looked inmy records and found that  used either 16 grains of Bullseye or 20 gains of Titegroup and the cornmeal and wax bit.  Also, one of the things that I found, in my nosing in my records was that 22 grains of 2400 worked really well in my rifle.  Not that would be good for a "Purist" who uses only BP but I did find that load is rather accurate.  I found that load listed in one of Ken Waters' books for the 45-60 and 45-75.  When I first got my rifle, I really did a lot of browsing and trying different loads.  I did find that 72 grains of Swiss 1½ was just as accurate as the 76 grain load and doesn't kick as hard so-- for whatever that is worth.  Have fun.

I have only shot blackpowder - not so much that I am a purist - just lazy - have had good results with black (I make it, so its really cheap) I enjoy handling the 76 so cleanup is not a chore, and despite initial intentions to work up smokeless loads (even cut a bunch of cases short so I could crimp to suit the groove of a LEE 340 grain boolit) - I guess I got to a point of why bother?  Have had a lot of fun with that big rifle the last couple years - well worth the price!
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: larryo1 on January 26, 2019, 09:24:45 am
GH:

I am sort of like you in that respect-shooting BP and stuff.  I make my own bullet alloy but not the Black Power.  I use Swiss 1½ BP.  I  found a formula for  bullet alloy on the back of a box of original factory ammo awhile back-  actually it was a long time back!  Anyway, they recommended an alloy of 16:1.  So, I made some and it works great in my rifle.  I did try a 20:1 alloy but been having best luck with the 16:1 alloy.  Besides I can get my lead and tin pretty easy--so far.  Anyway, that is about  all that is about all I can pass on for now. I use a custom  mold  by Hoch that is patterned after an original WCF mold.  It casts pretty near a 350 grain bullet.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on January 27, 2019, 03:43:52 pm
Greetings All,

Some news of sorts on brass.  I have always been a scrounger.  Finding things for repairs and such was and is a role I did in my professional life and on the farm.  Now that I am retired (or supposed to be!) been putting this character flaw to use in the search for 45-75 brass.  There is a company out there called Quality Cartridge  http://www.qual-cart.com/ .  Somewhere I had seen they produce some and maybe all of the 76 cartridge brass.  Well sure enough they do and Graf and Sons is listed as a distributor.  Went to Grafs site and they had a bag of 20 Quality Cartridge 45-75 in stock so I ordered it, figuring what the heck.  Been looking at the product and it presents as well made brass.  Haven't had time to do detailed measurements but will share when I do.  Attached is a very poor photo of the Jamesion, Rocky Mountain and Quality Cartridge next to each other.  Price wise it is more in line with Rocky Mountain Cartridge (who list the business for sale on their site but are still accepting orders so still available there I am guessing).  Quality Cartridge does accept direct orders on their web site but they state if out of a cartridge that they will produce it when enough back order is there to do so.  Not sure the level of back order required but that is what I read on the site.  Few images attached, but I ain't good at taking pictures so not the best.  I will report back as I start working up loads in the new brass, but it does give at least a source for now.

Keep ya powder dry!
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: King Medallion on January 27, 2019, 04:01:08 pm
Your right, your pic's suck!  :D ;D  :D
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on January 27, 2019, 04:44:32 pm
Thanks for the info. Looks like its out of stock now you must have bought the last bag. Price is a little higher than Jamison last was but not much.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on January 27, 2019, 05:00:32 pm
Hey Mr. Cliff,

The company will sell direct, here is the order form location:

http://qual-cart.com/quality_cartridge_form.htm

Think the price is pretty much the same as what Graf had. $55.97 per 20 and it is listed in stock on products page.

Hope this helps!

P.B.

Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on February 07, 2019, 06:31:11 pm
Greetings All,

As promised a little update on measurements taken on the Quality Cartridge brass. Now this is about as UN-Scientific as you can get!  For sake of argument, let us call it Farm Grade measurments (seeing as I am an old hill billy farmer). 

I took 3 cases at random and measured their length, rim diameter and rim thickness before sizing and triming.  I compared these to drawings sourced from an online posting that shows it came from custom cartridges for factory specs.  Here goes with what I found:

          OAL          Rim Dia          Rim Thickness
Avg       1.894      .603             .067
Factory   1.885     .629             .062

Now the avg of the 3 cases needs to include the note that all 3 were either identical or extremely close so overall the cases were consistent.  The avg measurements were close to the factory specs I found online with one excepting, the rim diameter.  This was evident when I primed the cases.  The old Lyman press uses the down stroke to seat a primer and the rims tended to stick slightly in the shell holder as the rim was pressed into the opening.  Now it wasn't much as a slight press down with the thumb and they slid out with no problem and all primed well with primer seating below level slightly.  The process used to prep was first neck size, then neck expansion die, then trim to length in Lyman universal trimmer.  Haven't tried them in the rifle to see how this smaller diameter rim does, will have to finish loading up for development of the load as am not sure of internal volume so didn't want to just dump standard loads used in the other brand cases in.   As soon as I try a loaded round will report how it feeds and ejects.  Will post up the load development as it happens too.

King Medallion I gave the pictures a try again, these suck too!!  :o Posted a few here just to show what is going on.  New phone in the works so we will see if technology helps but my bet is the loose nut at the key pad that is causing the poor quality pictures!! ;D

Hope this ain't boring, just hoping to pass along information as it comes along.  Thanks for reading and letting me join in!!

Keep Ya Powder Dry!!
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on February 07, 2019, 06:58:09 pm
Hey PB
These last pictures a lot better - think you wuz toooooo close last time and phones brain couldnt focus!

I took some farm grade (is therte any other sort?) measurements of my converted 348 winchester cases

OAL 1.960 (I set that to the maxium for my rifles chamber - havent done a cast - I flared the neck slightly and chamber the case - trim a bit, rinse and repeat till it chambers neat without turning the neck over)

Rim Diameter is spot on .600 (uberti ejects them fine)

Your rounds look like the case body is shorter (more like originals I have seen) - my cases are neat .600 neck length measured ourtside from the crease of the shoulder to end of case

I dont size anything at all for reloading - this brass is a tad thick, chamber is pretty neat, I load 460cast unsized, almost no neck expansion at all - I do a touch of a flare on the case mouth - fill em back up and put a tiny bit of taper crimp on - have not shot a smokeless load yet (cant be bothered really the black is working good - if I was going hunting and need to change my load, I think I would drop from FFto Fg black and put a small duplex under it - 6 grains 4227 - would expect the velocity and pressure to remain close to same )     
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on February 24, 2019, 05:49:43 pm
Greetings All,

It is known to those acquainted with me that I move at the speed of thick molasses in winter.  With that in mind, I got around today to loading the new brass from Quality Cartridge.  Figured to start a little below the standard load used in both Rock Mountain and Jamison cases just to be sure no surprises with the use of PuffLon filler and new brass.  Nothing strange at the loading bench (unless you count me!!  ;D) and in short order the 20 rounds were loaded and labeled for testing across the chronograph.  Here is where the fun started.  Reported previously of the concern the rims were a little on the small side in diameter.  I decided to test the feeding of the new cartridges in the rifle, and the fun began.  Tested 5 or 6 cartridges and at least 2 were not able to extract, the extractor hook just couldn't grab enough to pull them out.  I figured these 2 were just smaller than the bulk of the cartridges.  Setting them aside I took the 3 that had worked with no problems and loaded the magazine again.  Cycling carefully each worked with no problem.  Humm quality control issues or just the way this brand is made?  Tried it again and still cycled good. Figured all was well so tried it more briskly and disaster struck.  Round failed to extract and I didn't catch it before the elevator moved up with next round effectively causing one heck of a jam.  Sat and stewed for a bit, said my Sunday school lesson backwards then headed to the shop.  Side plates off, links out lever out, lifter finger out from elevator with pressure off the springs (a story in itself there, that big ape Uberti has snugging up screws is well fed and strong!) and down the elevator went.  Took range rod and gently pushed the round out of the chamber, unloaded the mag then set to putting the old girl back together. 

Conclusions I have reached, the Quality Cartridge brass does have slightly smaller rims in the diameter.  The Jamison and Rocky Mountain rounds will cycle as fast as you can work the lever with Never a hint of this problem.  Now I enjoy this rifle greatly, and it was due to be opened up and cleaned then lubed so this wasn't a total loss and both it and I managed with only couple of minor 'love marks' (I am getting old and clumsy so a few minor bumps came about).  What will I do with these?  Shoot them single shot and see what comes of things.  When I got the reloading setup going for this rifle years ago, I got a Lyman shell holder specifically for the 45-75.   The RMC brass was to big in the rim for it.  Exchanged it for a RCBS holder that I am using now and all is fine.  I bet these new cases would fit the Lyman shell holder I first had.  Does this mean the original cartridges were smaller or is there some other reason for this difference?  Don't know.  Now I have been blessed in many ways in my life,one big one being my Dad being a wonder at all things mechanical and teaching me these skills helped to work on things including reloading and rifles.  To date the 76 has been as smooth and easy as a rifle as I have ever worked with.  This don't discourage me any, just fuels my curious about the rifles and there cartridges.  If any of you all can shed light on what I came across in this latest adventure, help me to learn more on the 76 rifle and its cartridges.

Thanks again to all here for help in the past and tolerating my mis-adventures and Horrible pictures!!  Will report on what the range test yield if the weather Ever gets nice again!

Keep ya powder dry.

P.B.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on February 25, 2019, 05:21:23 am
PB
I went back and re measured - seems like my farm grade measure was a bit on the agricultural side (like rougher,n a plowed paddock)
could not find that rim I said was spot on .600

Soooooo  I got two batches of brass here (no idea which is wot or where - they are allasame winchester headstamp)  those two lots would be at least twenty years different age manufacture - yeah thats a story I tell ya one day - one batch - the newer I think - has rim diameter pretty consistent at .6035 to .604 a few getting out to .606
rim thickness of those near as I can figure is about .062 to.065

other lot - the older I think (wild ass guess which is which) rim diameter runs .607 to .609 and thickness about .067 to .069

I have a  Uberti - delivered new off the boat in 2016 - has ZERO extraction problems with this brass.

One qualifier  - the neck part of my chamber is really, really neat to the load I am shooting - only just chambers - its neat enough that this stops the cases from flopping down in the chamber at the back and I get quite neat brass after it has filled out - the swelling at the back end of the case is pretty much even all around rather than a lump on one side like you see with most rifles .
 
My loaded rounds all go through a .485 neck swage die and finish outside neck diameter of loaded rounds is .4855. If I dont do that I will have problems chambering some rounds = little bit of a swelling under the crimp, or a teensy bulge at the base of the neck 

I am mostly shooting as cast,  or If I size = .460

The tight neck has been a bit of a headache at times but part of the reason this girl shoots nice I think. I dont neck size my brass at all once its fired - just that swage die to tidy things up.

Blackpowder only - mainly because it works so good I couldnt be bothered messing with a smokeless load   :D

   

Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on February 25, 2019, 09:20:05 am
Thanks for checking your brass Greyhawk!  Been thinking on this so this morning dug out the dial calipers and checked all 3 brands of brass i have.  The Rock Mountain brass averaged .615 rim diameter, Jamison averaged .6145, and Quality Crtg averaged .603.  That is around .010 less than RMC and Jamison.  I have already checked the rifles extractor, it is as the day I got it with no ware or damage so am still thinking it is the smaller rims.  Now it may well be my rifle and how it was made so it just isn't able to digest the smaller rims.  In the long run it isn't a big deal as the different brands are in their own marked boxes and are never mixed so I will shoot these single shot and see how it goes.  I may reach out the to maker to see if the rims can be ordered to an average of .6145 diameter and if it is get a run made up for my rifle as the brass is very nice otherwise.  Will keep ya all posted as I move at that snails pace of mine!! :D

One thing for sure, these rifles are a joy to work with and great fun!!

P.B.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on April 07, 2019, 03:33:17 pm
Well here it is almost a year later.  I just wrote Starline inquiring about .45-75 brass.  Maybe if others wrote them too they would consider making a batch.  Have a .38-55 High Wall to play with as well as a M-1917 Eddystone.  I had to take the M-1917 to get the High Wall.  The Eddystone was made in late November 1918 and has an excellent bore.  Having fun working up 1918 .30-06 ammo.  Gun shoots very well!  Thought I would be shooting the High Wall more but have had a great time shooting the M1917!  I hope Starline considers running up a batch of .45-75 as I would like to gat back to shooting the '76 again. 
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on April 07, 2019, 03:54:41 pm
Well here it is almost a year later.  I just wrote Starline inquiring about .45-75 brass.  Maybe if others wrote them too they would consider making a batch.

Well, I have written to Starline about this periodically over time and I know that others have too.  I've also asked for a response as to whether it might be in the works for the future (or not), but have never received a reply.  I certainly think that there would be a market for .45-75 Win. brass...

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: King Medallion on April 07, 2019, 05:23:22 pm
I also have Ave wrote to starline requesting a run of 45/75, never got a reply.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Slamfire on April 07, 2019, 11:30:05 pm
 Can 45-75's be made from Huntington"s 45 basic brass , as well as 45-110 ,, 45-90,, 45-120"s ??

 smoke'm if ya got'm ,, Hootmix.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on April 08, 2019, 12:06:39 am
The base and rim diameter is much different. I made .45-75 brass from .50-90 Sharps cases. I still had to reshape the rims, but the diameter of the case above the rim was correct.

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 08, 2019, 12:31:51 am
I notice Starline is offering 348 winchester now and adding more all the time so hopefully they will pick up the 45-75.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: King Medallion on April 08, 2019, 07:59:37 am
Judging by the price of Starline's new .348 brass, If/when they do make 45/75 brass, be prepared to take out a loan to get some. Shees.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 08, 2019, 12:24:09 pm
Judging by the price of Starline's new .348 brass, If/when they do make 45/75 brass, be prepared to take out a loan to get some. Shees.

That Starline 348 is still quite a bit cheaper than Jamison 45-75 was provided they could keep that comparable price they probably wouldn't be out of line.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: King Medallion on April 08, 2019, 01:17:23 pm
 I thought Jamison brass was over priced, but I needed it.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 08, 2019, 01:28:26 pm
I thought Jamison brass was over priced, but I needed it.

Same here and I'm not sure I think the quality of Starline brass might be better. If they would make some 45-75 in the priceline of their 348 I would buy some for sure. I think that's still a dollar cheaper per piece than Jamison was.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on April 08, 2019, 04:12:53 pm
If Starline would make 45-75 brass I sure would buy some.  Like others here, I have written them and asked for a run of brass.  No reply, but there is always hope.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on April 08, 2019, 04:48:29 pm
That Starline 348 is still quite a bit cheaper than Jamison 45-75 was provided they could keep that comparable price they probably wouldn't be out of line.

I am thinking that too - their 50 Alaskan was advertised way cheaper just a while back - my problem is I know 348 works without losses - have had less success reducing neck sizes of brass over the years - always seem to loose a few doing that . Wonder will Winchester ever run 348 again or is their ammo operation kaput?
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 08, 2019, 07:23:15 pm
The positive thing is they are making more and more oddball casings. I would think they would sell about as many 45-75 as some of the other casings they are offering.

I sent them another email last night but as before and others said I'm not holding my breath hearing a response from them.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 09, 2019, 04:00:55 pm
Here is the response from Starline brass.

Cliff,

 

I?m sorry but we don?t currently have any plans to produce brass for the .45-75 Win.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hunter Pilant

Process Manager

Chief Ballistician

Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on April 09, 2019, 04:26:24 pm
Well, at least you got an answer.  That's too bad, though... :-\

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on April 09, 2019, 04:40:05 pm
Here is the response from Starline brass.

Cliff,

 

I?m sorry but we don?t currently have any plans to produce brass for the .45-75 Win.


 

Regards,

 

Hunter Pilant

Process Manager

Chief Ballistician


I'm glad to see someone other than me contacted Starline.  I got a similar response from Mr. Pilant today!  I wrote him back today and suggested they reconsider since they were making 348 Winchester brass which was the same head as the 45-75.  I also mentioned that I used their  50-90 Sharps, 45-70 and 38-55 brass.  I also mentioned that there were several shooters here at CAS City that were in need of 45-75 brass.  Didn't try to be pushy but urged them to reconsider making 45-75.  It can't hurt.  If they would make a batch I would buy 500 rounds.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 09, 2019, 08:41:01 pm

I'm glad to see someone other than me contacted Starline.  I got a similar response from Mr. Pilant today!  I wrote him back today and suggested they reconsider since they were making 348 Winchester brass which was the same head as the 45-75.  I also mentioned that I used their  50-90 Sharps, 45-70 and 38-55 brass.  I also mentioned that there were several shooters here at CAS City that were in need of 45-75 brass.  Didn't try to be pushy but urged them to reconsider making 45-75.  It can't hurt.  If they would make a batch I would buy 500 rounds.

That is my thinking, I never had much hope of them doing any 45-75 but when they came out with 348 I was thinking how hard could it be to set up for 45-75.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on April 23, 2019, 05:06:37 pm
Has anyone here tried to form 45-75 brass out of 50 Alaskan?  Been doing some research on the process and it seems marginally simpler than the 348 fire forming technique.  I have also found that there is 45-75 brass available from Ammunition Artifacts.  Has anyone heard about them or used their product.  At $54 per 20 plus $8 shipping it seems a little pricey bus still cheaper than Bertram's product.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on April 23, 2019, 05:46:07 pm
Has anyone here tried to form 45-75 brass out of 50 Alaskan?  Been doing some research on the process and it seems marginally simpler than the 348 fire forming technique.  I have also found that there is 45-75 brass available from Ammunition Artifacts.  Has anyone heard about them or used their product.  At $54 per 20 plus $8 shipping it seems a little pricey bus still cheaper than Bertram's product.

I been thinking about that 50 alsakan - its a good price at present - then I perused the ammo cupboard and decided I got enough brass - but then I wondered ........if I had a couple hundred 50 alsakan cases , maybe a homeless 50/95 would find me ??

I made 38/40 out of 44/40 Starline a while back - I lost 5 out of 100 to crinkled necks - have not had a problem with necks when expanding 348 - BUT - I didnt anneal that starline brass either just ran it in the sizer die - the ones that crinkled were all when I just stroked the lever a bit quick. 
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on April 28, 2019, 04:45:16 pm
Greetings All,

Reported a while back on getting a sack of Quality Cartridge brass in 45-75 and the measurement showing the rims to be smaller than that from other companies.  I loaded the development rounds but they will not extract period from the rifle and I know if they are fired it will be a rod down the barrel to punch them out.  After mulling it over I decided not to even try the loads.  Pulled the bullets and broke the cartridges down.  Gonna dispose of the brass and mark it up to a payment for stupid tax.  Not sure if the original cartridge had this smaller diameter rim or what is the reason for the difference but I am fortunate enough to have a good stock of RMC and Jamison brass so not willing to risk any malfunctions or harm to the rifle I have decided to play it safe.  Just wanted to report the fate of the trial.  Let us hope another maker will step up to the task of good quality brass for the 76 cartridges.

P.B.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 28, 2019, 11:29:12 pm
Bummer!
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on April 29, 2019, 01:07:51 am
Greetings All,

Reported a while back on getting a sack of Quality Cartridge brass in 45-75 and the measurement showing the rims to be smaller than that from other companies.  I loaded the development rounds but they will not extract period from the rifle and I know if they are fired it will be a rod down the barrel to punch them out.  After mulling it over I decided not to even try the loads.  Pulled the bullets and broke the cartridges down.  Gonna dispose of the brass and mark it up to a payment for stupid tax.  Not sure if the original cartridge had this smaller diameter rim or what is the reason for the difference but I am fortunate enough to have a good stock of RMC and Jamison brass so not willing to risk any malfunctions or harm to the rifle I have decided to play it safe.  Just wanted to report the fate of the trial.  Let us hope another maker will step up to the task of good quality brass for the 76 cartridges.

P.B.

Do these guys make their own brass or reform other stuff? Seems strange if they make it from scratch that they get the rim size so wrong.
Have been told that Magtech 32 gauge brass shotshells make into 45/75 ok - we cant get em downunder so have not been able to try. rims on those might be too small too?
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on April 29, 2019, 03:01:08 pm
The ammunitionartifacts.com website list two 45-75 loadings available.  The one for "original" 1876 Winchester rifles uses the Magtech 32 gauge brass as the basis for it.  Their 45-75 "reproductions (read Uberti etal)" uses the 50 Alaskan brass as the basis for it.  He claims the difference in rim diameter is why he uses the different brass cases for the two versions of 45-75, original and reproduction guns.  That is why I have asked if anyone had tried the 50 Alaskan.  The head, if specifications can be believed, is close to the Jamison 45-75 that works well in my Cimarron/Uberti.  Its cheap enough I was thinking about ordering 20 rounds and seeing if I can form 45-75 out of it.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on April 29, 2019, 05:49:10 pm
The ammunitionartifacts.com website list two 45-75 loadings available.  The one for "original" 1876 Winchester rifles uses the Magtech 32 gauge brass as the basis for it.  Their 45-75 "reproductions (read Uberti etal)" uses the 50 Alaskan brass as the basis for it.  He claims the difference in rim diameter is why he uses the different brass cases for the two versions of 45-75, original and reproduction guns.  That is why I have asked if anyone had tried the 50 Alaskan.  The head, if specifications can be believed, is close to the Jamison 45-75 that works well in my Cimarron/Uberti.  Its cheap enough I was thinking about ordering 20 rounds and seeing if I can form 45-75 out of it.

Dont know if anybody is interested - or - if it would work but midway has 100rounds of 8mm Lebel on special (67cents per unit) - rim dimensions are different .630 x.055 vs .610x.070 otherwise its a fit --this is Brazilian??  (Privi-something) or Eastern European??

I would like to try the magtech but cant find it downunder ....
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Ranch 13 on April 29, 2019, 07:18:07 pm
Seems that if you were going to make 45-75 out of 50-90, it would be easiest to trim to length, then run that 50 brass into a 45-90 size die and firearm the shoulder. I use that process for making 40-90 bn from 45-100, using a 40-65 die.
 Hornady ran a batch of 348 brass a while back.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on May 09, 2019, 02:48:07 pm
Received 20 rounds of 50 Alaskan Monday and trimmed, annealed, sized and finish trimmed.  It functions through the Uberti and ejects. Only took a couple of hours to process the 20 rounds.  I will be trying the same technique with some 50-110 Winchester brass I have coming.  About a dollar and a dime cost per case for the Alaskan.  If they don't work my experiment only cost $22.  The 50 Alaskan is .544" ahead of the rim or .012" small.  The 50-110 is supposed to be .551" in the same area or only .005" small.  The Jamison brass that I have measures .556" ahead of the rim so the 50-110 may end up being the better choice.  I thought about using 50-90 Sharps but would have had to turn down the rim several thousands on the lathe.  I have a Sharps in 50-90 and a good supply of that brass but the extra step in processing it may not make it worth the effort.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on May 09, 2019, 06:30:13 pm
Received 20 rounds of 50 Alaskan Monday and trimmed, annealed, sized and finish trimmed.  It functions through the Uberti and ejects. Only took a couple of hours to process the 20 rounds.  I will be trying the same technique with some 50-110 Winchester brass I have coming.  About a dollar and a dime cost per case for the Alaskan.  If they don't work my experiment only cost $22.  The 50 Alaskan is .544" ahead of the rim or .012" small.  The 50-110 is supposed to be .551" in the same area or only .005" small.  The Jamison brass that I have measures .556" ahead of the rim so the 50-110 may end up being the better choice.  I thought about using 50-90 Sharps but would have had to turn down the rim several thousands on the lathe.  I have a Sharps in 50-90 and a good supply of that brass but the extra step in processing it may not make it worth the effort.

My 348 converted brass is .548 ahead of the rim - wish I had of got some of that Jamison brass back when it was around
The 50 Alaskan is a good price at the moment (maybe that changes when they run a new batch of it too?)
Please keep us posted on the 50/110 when you get it done

Does the 50/90 sharps need diameter reduced or rim thickness ? Diameter would be simple with a collet - thickness much more work!
 
thanks for the info on the Alaskan
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on May 10, 2019, 12:44:26 am
Does the 50/90 sharps need diameter reduced or rim thickness ?

In my experience, it needs both. My process has been to do an initial trim, anneal, size in the 45-75 sizing die (in several stages), then mount the brass in a drill press (I don't have a lathe) on a mandrel. I use a file to narrow the rims, then a hacksaw blade to thin them from the top. I also cut an extractor groove to match the Jamison brass. After that, the brass gets a final trim and I anneal the mouth again. Then I go take a nap to rest from my labors, praying that Starline starts producing brass in this caliber.

There are likely easier ways, but that's what I have been doing...

CC Griff
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on May 10, 2019, 01:47:10 pm
Then I go take a nap to rest from my labors, praying that Starline starts producing brass in this caliber.

There are likely easier ways, but that's what I have been doing...

CC Griff

I absolutely agree!!!  I am sending another email to Starline today requesting 45-75 production.  Probably futile but it doesn't cost anything to keep after them.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cliff Fendley on May 10, 2019, 11:22:34 pm
Ask anyone else you know to request. I figure if they know there is interest from enough people maybe they will.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on May 16, 2019, 04:51:40 pm
50-110 Starline brass came yesterday.  Starline has made it with the same head dimensions as the 50 Alaskan.  So there is no need to keep them and I will be sending them back.  The books I have show the 50-110 being .551 ahead of the rim but this Starline is the same as the 50 Alaskan .544.  Not going to buy solid gold Bertram so I will keep pestering Starline.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on May 19, 2019, 12:42:00 am
50-110 Starline brass came yesterday.  Starline has made it with the same head dimensions as the 50 Alaskan.  So there is no need to keep them and I will be sending them back.  The books I have show the 50-110 being .551 ahead of the rim but this Starline is the same as the 50 Alaskan .544.  Not going to buy solid gold Bertram so I will keep pestering Starline.

Thanks for posting - saves me going through the motions
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Boone May on June 12, 2019, 11:36:34 pm
I see that Starline is offering .348 Winchester brass now.  That at least gives us a source for forming .45-75 again.   The .45-75 brass I have now was made from Winchester .348 brass and it works very well in the original 1876 rifles I have owned.

Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on June 15, 2019, 07:43:58 am
I see that Starline is offering .348 Winchester brass now.  That at least gives us a source for forming .45-75 again.   The .45-75 brass I have now was made from Winchester .348 brass and it works very well in the original 1876 rifles I have owned.

I just wish they would make this brass correct size to the drawing dimensions instead of all of it (348, 50 alaskan,50/110) 10 to 14thou undersize. sheesh how hard would it be?????
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Boone May on June 16, 2019, 01:42:45 pm
I looked through all the boxes in my garage today and found 30 of the formed .45-75 made from .348 Winchester brass as previously sold by Buffalo Arms.  I guess that will have to do for me until/if another source becomes available.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on June 17, 2019, 06:36:32 am
I looked through all the boxes in my garage today and found 30 of the formed .45-75 made from .348 Winchester brass as previously sold by Buffalo Arms.  I guess that will have to do for me until/if another source becomes available  .


despite my moaning my rifle is shooting dangerously well with 348 based brass - I have got used to the weird look of these cases that are way fatter in the body than at the solid head, .....plus  side the necks are almost too thick and that keeps the whole thing centered in the chamber while fire forming so they blow out evenly - and its tough! mine is winchester brand - the forming process was not so hard .
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Boone May on June 17, 2019, 10:26:13 am
Doing a google search I turned up this supplier.  Etsy? Looks like these are being formed from Starline .50-90 cases.   I have no idea the quality or how they work through the action.  Who wants to be the "crash test dummie" and order some?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/565628034/4575-winchester-center-fire-quantity-20 (https://www.etsy.com/listing/565628034/4575-winchester-center-fire-quantity-20)
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Boone May on June 17, 2019, 11:32:27 am
Found these two mystery .45-75 cases in the stash yesterday.  Not sure who made them, appear to be modern.  They are marked .45-75 Win and have a picture of a little rifle at the bottom.

Sorry, not the greatest photo.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: pinto beans on June 17, 2019, 06:03:08 pm
"Doing a google search I turned up this supplier.  Etsy? Looks like these are being formed from Starline .50-90 cases.   I have no idea the quality or how they work through the action.  Who wants to be the "crash test dummie" and order some?"

Evening Folks, if all the same I am gonna pass as the "crash test dummie" this time. The Quality Cartridge sample did me for a while.  One word of caution I would offer to whom ever does try these is grab the calipers and measure EVERYTHING before giving it a try.  Will save the application of sever adjectives while trying get the #&#*! cartridge elevator out to clear the mother of all jams if the rims are to small!!

P.B.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: greyhawk on June 19, 2019, 08:17:23 am
Doing a google search I turned up this supplier.  Etsy? Looks like these are being formed from Starline .50-90 cases.   I have no idea the quality or how they work through the action.  Who wants to be the "crash test dummie" and order some?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/565628034/4575-winchester-center-fire-quantity-20 (https://www.etsy.com/listing/565628034/4575-winchester-center-fire-quantity-20)

went to the website - sez they made from magtech 32 gauge shotshells
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: Cimarron on July 13, 2019, 01:04:34 pm
This guy (Ammunition Artifacts) does make some out of 32 Magtech shotshell brass for original 1876 rifles, but also makes them out of 50 Alaskan (which led to my attempt) for the "replica 1876 rifles". Go to his website (click on all brass) and see all of the brass he makes.  I thought about buying some but like was previously stated, I'll let some one else make the plunge first.
Title: Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
Post by: King Medallion on August 14, 2019, 02:14:05 pm
On Gunbroker, not affiliated, just passing along.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/826997229