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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Pitspitr on September 20, 2017, 03:29:00 pm

Title: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on September 20, 2017, 03:29:00 pm
I have an opportunity to purchase a reproduction howitzer complete with carriage but don't have cash enough on hand. Would anybody be interested in going in on it with me with the understand that I would eventually buy you out so that it could stay at camp US Scout?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Drydock on September 20, 2017, 05:18:41 pm
How much do you need?  I'm in for it.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: River City John on September 20, 2017, 06:15:36 pm
How much?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on September 20, 2017, 06:30:13 pm
The current owner (the guy with the mortars at Stu Kettle's service) says he wants 5K for it and would take half now half later
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Sagebrush Burns on September 20, 2017, 09:21:01 pm
Sending you a PM now.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: ira scott on September 21, 2017, 08:40:06 pm
The current owner (the guy with the mortars at Stu Kettle's service) says he wants 5K for it and would take half now half later
With all due respect General, if you have cheap-ass (frugal) friends, you're going to need a lot of partners!  Is it just a noise maker, or can you(we) really shoot stuff?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on September 22, 2017, 06:14:38 am
With all due respect General, if you have cheap-ass (frugal) friends, you're going to need a lot of partners!  Is it just a noise maker, or can you(we) really shoot stuff?
The more the merrier!

It's has an undersized bore. The cannon is full scale, but the bore is half scale. It doesn't come with any projectiles, and I'm not sure where I'd get any 6 pounders, but it can shoot. I'm just not sure I/we'll do any live fire with it. I'm thinking that with the hill behind where the long range targets sloping like it does, a ball could end up in Taylor or South Dakota or somewhere before it ran out of steam.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: River City John on September 22, 2017, 08:49:00 am
Best to use canister, then.



RCJ ;D
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Major 2 on September 22, 2017, 09:54:43 am
I'm assuming this is Mountain howitzer your looking at ?

It would look like this one ?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on September 22, 2017, 10:20:45 am
I'm assuming this is Mountain howitzer your looking at ?

It would look like this one ?
Yes, but not quite that pretty. I'll have to do a little work on it, but mostly nothing the right wheels and some paint won't fix
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/2935/rN4x6o.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/7440/EEATrl.jpg)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Tascosa Joe on September 22, 2017, 10:51:43 am
If the bore is right, a soup can full of concrete makes a nice projectile. 
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: ira scott on September 22, 2017, 07:42:30 pm
Best to use canister, then.
What a novel idea to start a mad minute skirmish RCJ!  An "army" of knockdown targets at 100 yards, one shot of canister out of the cannon, and then volley fire by everyone to finish off the survivors! (advance if necessary)


RCJ ;D
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Mustang Gregg on October 02, 2017, 11:04:18 pm
Col Pitspitr:
What is the bore diameter?
Mustang Gregg
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on October 03, 2017, 09:36:59 am
I don't have it where I can measure it and I don't remember offhand. As I understand it's half the full diameter. He says he can get 6 to 8 shots per pound of powder.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Tascosa Joe on October 04, 2017, 10:14:28 am
Did you get enough co conspirators for the association to own a cannon?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on October 05, 2017, 12:30:03 pm
I was able to talk the owner into a smaller down payment and was able to get enough partners to make the down payment. I will pay him off as quickly as possible, then work on paying off my "co conspirators" It will need some work, but at least we can make noise with it.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on October 30, 2017, 06:33:16 pm
Web site below covers safety & firing procedures.

12lb is 4.62", so if half scale 2.31" bore. My guess, is 2.25" bore, as 2.31" isn't a common size pipe. My Coehorn has a 2.25" steel tube with cast iron around it.
Brian
http://www.cwartillery.com/marty/marty.html
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 30, 2017, 10:18:54 pm
Well, as you may know I am a British Empire artilleryman (Regiment of Canadian Artillery, circa 1885) so I can possibly help with various things ...  ;D ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x529q90/923/B6M5LM.jpg)

Does it have a steel bore liner, by any chance?  (If so, that would make firing it with projectiles a considerably less harrowing experience ...)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on October 30, 2017, 10:23:22 pm
If it has a 2 ½" bore (as many reproduction barrels do) then an ideal (and economical) projectile (sliding fit) is a standard aluminum beverage can, filled with concrete ...  I doubt that you would have any problem with projectiles clearing your back hill, unless you elevated the barrel excessively.  We fire our smaller gun (2" bore) using 2" lengths of 2"-diameter cold rolled steel ... but only using 2 oz. of powder ... in the open field you see here (no backstop)  ... and they don't go beyond 600 to 800 yards.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/782x722q90/922/lSaRHq.jpg)

There is a wrecked vehicle downrange (out of the picture) that we shoot at ...  ;D
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 01, 2019, 01:42:57 pm
Update:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/W6FaQc.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plW6FaQcj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/NtaaxE.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poNtaaxEj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/v9WVUq.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pov9WVUqj)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Silver Creek Slim on June 01, 2019, 02:40:30 pm
Looking good.

Slim
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Drydock on June 01, 2019, 07:51:20 pm
Shore is purty.  Which wheel is mine?    ;)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: ira scott on June 01, 2019, 09:35:16 pm
A load of canister to take down all those pesky bad guys we couldn't take down with the Gatling?

You got a mighty purty gun General! (and BIG too)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Sagebrush Burns on June 01, 2019, 10:19:04 pm
Looking mighty good, Sir!  Do we get to play with it at the Grand Muster?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Books OToole on June 02, 2019, 07:09:43 am
(http://)

I think you need a section.

Books
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 02, 2019, 11:28:22 am
Col. Sagebrush, that's the plan.

Books, I wish I could and I probably should have bought yours but for now this is the only one I can afford.

How about you come up and help me to learn how to shoot it? I understand the basics, having shot muzzleloading rifles and pistols, but I know there's a difference between loading and shooting them and a cannon and I want to learn the right way


Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Bat 2919 on June 02, 2019, 04:37:52 pm
Are you transferring from the Infantry to Artillery?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 03, 2019, 06:15:32 am
Are you transferring from the Infantry to Artillery?
Well, I haven't decided. Maybe, but I was thinking more in terms of the Cavalry. The reason I wanted the howitzer was that in 1865 Col. Cole's column of the Powder River Expedition probably crossed my land. (if not, they were certainly very close to it) His column was comprised mostly of the 12th Missouri Cavalry. They had a pair of the mountain howitzers with them because it had been necessary to use them to quell a mutiny before they left Omaha.


If I could find a size 48 CW Artillery shell jacket cheap, I might buy it
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 03, 2019, 06:17:57 am
Col Pitspitr:
What is the bore diameter?
Mustang Gregg
2.25"
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Major 2 on June 03, 2019, 06:25:15 am




Were did you find the Japanese Nuclear Mini Sub ?    ;D
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Guns Garrett on June 04, 2019, 07:58:47 am
If I could find a size 48 CW Artillery shell jacket cheap, I might buy it

Shucks...mine's a 42....I wore it to Ackley years ago.  I may bring it up this Muster in case you recruit a crew.  It's got Captain's bars on it.  I have the M1840 Light Arty saber, as well.  I need to bring up all my old uniforms and stuff.  Many have shrunk over the years.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 04, 2019, 09:02:26 am



Were did you find the Japanese Nuclear Mini Sub ?    ;D
;D It took me a little while
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 04, 2019, 09:03:46 am
Many have shrunk over the years.
I can relate. The frustrating thing is that it seems like the longer I own them the faster the shrinkage accelerates!  ::)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on June 04, 2019, 11:48:35 am
I can relate. The frustrating thing is that it seems like the longer I own them the faster the shrinkage accelerates!  ::)

Apparently a universal problem ...   :-\
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: 1961MJS on June 04, 2019, 03:33:36 pm
So, Jerry, does the US Army commonly use plain ole Cavalry Horses to pull that or are ya Buyin' Clydesdale's?  I haven't looked it up, but the local Rebel Artillery all went to a class. I work with one of them who also shoots Buffalo Rifles.  You want me to see what I can find out?

Later
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on June 04, 2019, 06:40:34 pm
Mountain Howitzers typically carried on mules, one with barrel, one with carriage, one with wheels, & 1 or 2 with ammo. Easier to move on rough terrain.
Dusty
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on June 04, 2019, 10:36:28 pm
Actually, all of the period illustrations of U.S. Mountain Howitzers that I have seen show them packed on a total of three animals - one carrying the barrel and shafts, another carrying the carriage and wheels, and the third carrying ammunition chests - 

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1005x700q90/923/ZyV6KH.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/831x326q90/921/4MGWWJ.jpg)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on June 04, 2019, 10:52:56 pm
There was also a "Prairie Carriage" permitting the gun to be pulled behind a limber drawn by a team of horses, where terrain permitted -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1179x477q90/924/Dd4Zro.jpg)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Pitspitr on June 05, 2019, 04:48:43 am
Mine the first model prairie carriage
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: kwilliams1876 on June 05, 2019, 10:08:55 am
Rattlesnakejack
Just wondering if the "EMPIRE" would have bought U.S.  Parrot rifles for their artillery back in the day?
The Brits had plenty of their own design.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Guns Garrett on June 05, 2019, 10:18:38 am
Either carriage should be adequate for the Martini or the Snyder...
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on June 05, 2019, 02:28:59 pm
Rattlesnakejack
Just wondering if the "EMPIRE" would have bought U.S.  Parrot rifles for their artillery back in the day?
The Brits had plenty of their own design.

No ... as you say, Britain had plenty of their own patterns (many of which were imported by the USA and CSA during the "Unpleasantness").  Canadian field artillery of the era my group portray (1885) mostly used the British 9 Pounder RML (Rifled Muzzle-Loading) gun and, to a lesser extent, 7 Pounder RML.  We got a ? scale reproduction Parrott Rifle barrel for our full-size carriage because it was the closest facsimile we could get to the appearance of a 9pdr barrel - it is shorter than a 9pdr barrel, whereas a full-scale one would have been longer.  The weight differential was the deciding factor for us, rather than price - in fact, we had already ordered a full-scale barrel but then we had second thoughts about ease of loading, unloading and field movement of the gun, and changed our order.  (Our barrel came from Hern Iron Works in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.)

Here is a Canadian 9pdr RML gun detachment on service in during the 1885 North-West Rebellion -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x595q90/923/SHbaLy.jpg)

And we have access to the "right up to date" Canadian Field Artillery manual -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/353x543q90/924/dMndgr.jpg)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on June 05, 2019, 03:08:16 pm
Mine the first model prairie carriage

You'll need a limber and team of horses then, General!

 ;D

We have actually demonstrated a few times with horses ... although not too much, since hauling them, and hooking up and all that is  not practical at most venues ... and too much of a hassle, really ...  IIRC we have only done it with our "small" gun (a half-scale representation of a 9pdr) but not since we completed the large gun, so I don't have any photos of the full-size gun hooked up with the limber and horses. 

This was at Fort Walsh National Historic Site -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/750x440q90/923/3IxZeU.jpg)

And these were tkenat the Calgary Stampede a few years ago -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/600x730q90/921/AIHvGj.jpg)
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Guns Garrett on June 06, 2019, 07:11:30 am
Anybody need scale drawings for a 12pdr. Whitworth?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: River City John on June 13, 2019, 04:48:40 pm
Remind me to throw it in the car and I will bring a lb. of black to donate.

RCJ
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on June 13, 2019, 06:05:48 pm
Remind me to throw it in the car and I will bring a lb. of black to donate.

Throw what in, John?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: River City John on June 13, 2019, 09:37:13 pm
I sorry, me English no good.

Reminder to bring a pound of black powder before I leave for The Muster as a donation to Jerry's howitzer project.




RCJ
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Grapeshot on June 30, 2019, 07:00:08 pm
You know anyone with a LARGE Lathe that can bore that out to the proper size for a 12 pounder?
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Major 2 on June 30, 2019, 11:48:35 pm
That would destroy it,  those tubes are ornamental sand casted iron with 2.5 " about 3/8 wall steel liner & welded breach.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 01, 2019, 07:17:27 am
You know anyone with a LARGE Lathe that can bore that out to the proper size for a 12 pounder?

A regular 12pounder field gun (1841 howitzer) had a cylindrical bore of 4 5/8". 

A 12-pdr Whitworth only had a bore of 2.75", but the bolt was 9.75" in length.  The trick is getting the bore hexagonal in shape, not cylindrical.
Title: Re: I need partners...
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 01, 2019, 07:37:22 am
I participated in a CW reenactment years ago at Ft Steilacoom, WA (near Seattle) where a member had made a 3/4-scale Whitworth, using 1 1/2" high-pressure gas pipe.  Its O.D. was 6" with 2 1/4" thick walls.  He also had heat-shrunk a reinforcing ring around the breech area, that also had the breechblock hinge forged into it.  (The owner/builder was also the owner of a small metal-fabricating shop, which included a small casting facility, and machine shop)  The barrel was about 6 ft long, and tapered to about 4" at the muzzle.  The hardest part was making the breach, having a triple-leade threaded breech cap that sealed the breach in one rotation.  The owner would ONLY shoot blanks, no projectiles at all, not even golf balls.  The cartridge looked like a salami wrapped in foil.  (with corresponding humor, the Gun Captain would occasionally substitute the command "Load Cartridge" with "Slip me your salami...")

I big regret is never taking any pictures of it...