Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => 1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting => Topic started by: Baltimore Ed on August 30, 2016, 01:43:57 PM
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I shot this in our clubs semiannual WB match last Saturday. A big difference from my 97 Norinco trench gun. I liked it a lot and will use it again next time we play WB. The stock was cut down and it had an old reblue so I didn't mind cutting the bbl and inletting the rear sling swivel. By the way, it ran like a top.
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Gotta love those Model 12s!
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I shot my M12 trench gun today for the second time. It ran Great. I had a good match with only one miss with my 1911 Colt. I did increase my Clay Dot load a little as it felt that the unchoked, cut down bbl was not knocking down plates on my plate rail as good as it could. I went from a 381 to a 408 powder bushing with 3/4 oz of #9. I also had to use the WW grey wads ( little more room for the powder but same amount of shot room) instead of the pink aftermarket wads. This gave me nice crimps. While I like my 97s I think that the M12 is a lot smoother and faster.
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Purdy. I have one of its cousins around here somewhere.
Out of idle curiosity...which manufacturer's hardguard did you go with, and have you had any trouble with it walking off the magazine stud under recoil?
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Thanks for the compliment, overall I'm pleased is how the gun turned out. The heat shield bayonet mount is from East Taylor. I bought theirs because it was advertised as being machined for the M12 bbl which is a little smaller diameter than the 97 bbl. The mount had to be slightly pried open to even go on the bbl this however was its only good point. With the tight mount and good screws that are notched into the bbl it's 100% and will not move under recoil. But the screws they send you are not tempered so they had to be replaced with Brownells screws. I also had to retap the threads after install. The perforated handguard was flat between the rows of holes so I had to round it by making a concave oak anvil and using a correctly sized socket and hammer to reshape it. While the machining looked good on the bayonet mount it is not true so the bayonet points slightly off center. I also had to reshape the bayonet lug to get it to fit my original Winchester bayonet. It comes in the white so I used oxpho blue to finish it. I don't believe that the one that I got was completely done, must have been the new guy's first try, so if you decide to go with them for a build be warned. Go to the machinegunboards.com forum and look under combat shotguns you will find a more detailed write up with photos.
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Good to know. I used (I think) either a Sarco or Numrich offering on mine. Construction was beautiful, excepting that the manufacturer went directly from the original specification and the dimensions were a little generous for a civil/non-riot barrel.
...you'd figure somebody'd have puzzled this out by now. ::)
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Shot another WB match today. Used my M12 again but somehow I miscycled the first shell and racked it out. First time I've done that trick. Other than that I had a good time. I need to get in some more practice before my home club's WB shoot next month.
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I feel bad about not having more photos of my build. I finally figured out what the problem was. Had an overcast day so here are some more.
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Ya know Ed ...... it was once figured out ..... a human body is only about 10 or so inches thick. A two foot bayonets is .... Overkill??
Coffinmaker
PS: That is one KOOL Trench Gun 8)
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I think it's an intimidation kind of thing. Surrender or become a pin cushion. If you ever get a chance to shoot a 12 or 97 with the extra steel installed try it. The gun has a very different feel with a bayonet to say the least. But I'm beginning to see a pattern here. A lot of my revolvers have lanyard rings and my long guns have bayonet mounts. A Norinco 97 trench gun, my M12 trench, an 1876 Winchester musket, a Krag Constabulary rifle, an M-1 Garand and a Taylors Winchester 1866 musket is on order. They say don't bring a knife to a gun fight but why not a gun with a knife to a gunfight?
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Ed, with all those military guns have you ever thought about joining us for the GAF Grand Muster?
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I would love to but you guys are too far away from eastern NC. I love my uniforms, accoutrements and military guns and it would be super to compete with them. Unfortunately my wife is not really able to travel anymore due to a stroke which limits how far I'm able to travel. I go to my WASA club's monthly match on the outer banks and another much closer WB match. I don't bother with sass clubs/matches even though there are several that are close enough for me to go to. Before her stroke we traveled from Md to SC for state and regional sass shoots. I wish I had known about you guys then. Are there any troopers in NC? I've shot with Charles Iassic a few times when he visited us in Dare Co but I believe he has moved. And I used to shoot with Drydock and his wife when they lived in VA. I also proposed a military category for sass prior to the creation of WB with no success. I do plan on trying my Constabulary Krag at a Garand shooters club 100yd match in the fall. Of course I would be somewhat in uniform. I'm too tall to be in the Philippine Constabulary. They do a boltgun division. Thanks for the invite, if things change here maybe I could get to a Muster. Don't eat too many pickles.
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;D Pickles ;D
I understand. We'd love to have you if something changes. Charles has shot here, but it's been a while. We'd love to get him back out here. I'd really like to get something going on the East Coast, but as you say it's a long drive and folks really need to see what we're doing before being able to set something up at home.
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Just to mention that my club ECSASS does a boltgun/cowboy match a couple of times a year and as a WASA club DAs and 1911s are welcome every month. We are probably as close to a GAF club as you're going to get in the east. So if any troopers are coming our way please check us out. Prior to our next boltgun match I'll try to remember to post an invitational thread in Cas City. We're only 10 miles from Manteo, NC.
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My only complaint with my M12s is the that they are not as quick to stuff shells into the mag tube as my '97s.
The way the last loaded shell slips under the lifter and it's propensity for popping out once you depress the lifter to insert the next shell has caused me fits at times.
How do you guys cope?
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Load the mag as needed for the stage and then load singles if needed but I did lighten the mag spring which does make it easier to load.
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That's great as long as a CoF allows staging a loaded shotgun.
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In WB you load your pump sg as you do your rifle, hammer down on mty chamber, magazine loaded as needed. The only catch is that for a M12 you drop your internal hammer at the loading table before loading and then prove it to the RO on the line by pulling the trigger again. If theres a click = stg dq. If theres a boom you get to go home. Not too good.
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Page 12 - Wild Bunch Rules:
- "Shotgun magazines may be loaded with the number of rounds required for the initial target sequence. Any additional rounds must be loaded from the body or other specified staging position.
- Loaded shotguns must be staged must be staged with the muzzle downrange, the action closed, chamber empty, and the hammer either in the safety notch or fully down.
- Unloaded shotguns shall be staged with the action open."
Looks to me like you got your druthers as a stage designer.
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Interesting, every WB match I've been to has run the pump sg the same as the rifle, hammer down mty chamber, magazine loaded as needed. The whole todo with WB is all the action shooting with as little on the clock loading as possible, 1911 excepted. Run and gun.
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If EVERY club had the same policy, I'd happily shoot one of my M12s instead of a '97.
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Don't know why a WB stage designer would make a shooter load his sg on the clock unless he was trying to discourage the use of the M12 or else he was not really a WB shooter and was designing stages as a CAS shooter. My club's very talented stage designer creates our WB matches so that the CAS shooters can compete along with the 1911 shooters. They shoot 10, we shoot 15-20. They load sgs on the clock, we load ours at the loading table. I've designed a bunch of cas matches but never a WB, it's a challenge for sure.
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We shot our quarterly Wild Bunch match yesterday and had a hot dog lunch. Only 14 shooters, half shooting WB. My bud and I were in our 1912 uniforms, shot duelist and used Colt 1911s, the other WB shooters didn't wear uniforms, used both hands and shot modern 1911s. I used my bayonet for the first stage. Here's a photo of my M12 trench gun in action. But I didn't do any better than Pershing did, no Pancho Villa today.
5-27. Shot our WildBunch match yesterday. 10 shooters, 2 were cowpokes and the rest shot 'funny guns' as Carolina Schoolmarm calls them. Only 3 were correctly wearing 1912 summer uniforms and shooting duelist I'm afraid. The heat cut us short with only 5 scenarios. I used my M12 with my 2 inch shells. Ran like a top with only a little hiccup when I got to the last couple of shells in the first stage. I tried tilting the gun to the left when racking the gun which seemed to solve the problem. Had no problem moving the resetting sg targets. Actually the load is a tad hotter than my standard length load was. A little more powder and shot just a lot shorter wad. They work!!
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Nice!
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If EVERY club had the same policy, I'd happily shoot one of my M12s instead of a '97.
I know this is an old post but thought I would chime in. WBAS rules say that you may load the shotgun up to the required amount for the stage. The rules committee would like for clubs to write stages that way. Same with seven in the magazine. I hear clubs still limiting to five. I hope they start writing stages around seven in the magazine.
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As I mentioned earlier my sass/wasa club’s talented match director creates our quarterly WB shoots so that the regular cas shooter can shoot as well as the 1911 shooter. When we do we usually have more auto shooters than SA shooters. Revolver shooters shoot their usual 10 while auto shooters shoot 15-20 per stage, rifle and sg target sequences are the same for both. In order to accommodate both type of handguns and target arrays we only load 5 rds in the mag. With the decline of other clubs holding dedicated monthly WB shoots this would be a workable solution. Movement with the 1911 is with the slide locked while interupted auto strings of fire without movement use a prop to stage the slide locked pistol on. Would be a way for a club to sneak in a WB match along with their monthly cas match without too much rigmarole. Of course IMO, the best way to go is to become a sass/wasa club and have the best of both worlds and the option to use all your handguns, SAs, DAs, and autos every month. And still play cowboy, army or whatever you want.
And a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to all.
-Last years Christmas dinner. We got rained out this year so we’ll have our Christmas party in January.-