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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => USFA CSS => Topic started by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on April 29, 2015, 10:26:52 pm

Title: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on April 29, 2015, 10:26:52 pm
A few days ago, Yahoody started a thread requesting USFA serial numbers in the apparent attempt to give all of us guidelines as to when your guns were made and if they were, in fact, Uberti parts guns or "all US made" models.  I applaud his efforts as this forum is one of the few place that one could possibly hope to gather such information.  I, for one, went back through years of postings on this site in order to determine dates of purchase for the various USFA's that I own.  So…
 Let's give him a hand!  If you know the date of purchase of your USFA, please post it here along with the serial number.  If you are one of those people who refuse reveal serial numbers then just give him the first three digits - instead of 12345, give him 123XX.  Post your numbers here.  Should this string start to go "off topic," as many do, I will delete those posts.  Serial numbers, models and dates only, PLEASE!
We have no real "history" of USFA and Yahoody is to be commented for his efforts.  Let's help him out!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on April 29, 2015, 11:48:39 pm
Thanks Cap' !
These are guns I have examined personally.

216XX bought used in 2008 nickel BP (Uberti parts)
216XX  Bought used in 2008 nickel BP  (Uberti parts) 
239XX  Bought used in 2009 Prewar (USA gun)
2725X  new Premium 2009  (USA)
2725X  new Premium 2009   "
2725X  new Premium 2009   "

21213 parts gun
21215 parts gun
21651 parts gun
22113 parts gun
22180 parts gun*  transitional guns by the # out of order?

22154 USA gun*  transitional guns by the # out of order?
22293 cone USA
22421  cone firing pin
22934 cone USA gun

Many different ways to hide a US or a Uberti gun.  Firing pin shape and loading gate cut is NOT definitive but are the easiest way to check and fairly accurate a majority of the time.

Serial number series for many of the guns..

Cowboy                       CB500 on
Gunslinger                    starts with 57XXX
Lightning rifle                2000
Buntline                        28XXX
Lend Lease 45ACP      357XXX
JW Red River D            RRXXX
Rodeo Sheriff               SKAXXX
Rodeo II Sheriff            SMBXXX
Cowboy Sheriff             SMCXXX
Sheriff SAA                   SMDXXX   
Special Sheriff/ Bisley hammer    US1XXX
Rodeo                          Single letter followed by 3 digits
China Camp                  CCXXX
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on April 30, 2015, 03:55:39 am
I have several USFA's that I have bought over the years but can only find positive purchase date information on three of them.  They are;

Sept. '05, 4" Ejectorless, SN 285XX
Nov. '08, 5 & 1/2" SAA, SN 262XX
Oct. '10, Double Eagle, SN 731XX

Note that the one purchased in '08 has a serial number that is 2000+ lower than the one purchased in '05.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: texagun on April 30, 2015, 07:27:55 am
USFA SAA .45 Colt, 4 3/4" barrel  ordered and received in 2010 Ser.# 282XX
USFA SAA .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible 5 1/2" barrel ordered and received in 2011 Ser.# 284XX

Both are all USA guns.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on April 30, 2015, 08:55:50 pm
Texagun,
Thank you for your contribution but it would be much more helpful if you could provide the first THREE numbers.  That would narrow it down to a hundred gun range rather than a thousand, making it easier to determine the exact year guns within those ranges were made. 
For example;  your 2010 is given as 28XXX and your 2011 as 28XXX.  If we had 281XX for 2010 and 282XX for 2011, we would then know that the 2010 production year ended, and 2011 started, somewhere between 28100 and 28200. 
Sincerely,
CJF
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: texagun on April 30, 2015, 09:02:37 pm
Texagun,
Thank you for your contribution but it would be much more helpful if you could provide the first THREE numbers.  That would narrow it down to a hundred gun range rather than a thousand, making it easier to determine the exact year guns within those ranges were made. 
For example;  your 2010 is given as 28XXX and your 2011 as 28XXX.  If we had 281XX for 2010 and 282XX for 2011, we would then know that the 2010 production year ended, and 2011 started, somewhere between 28100 and 28200. 
Sincerely,
CJF

Done.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on April 30, 2015, 09:08:04 pm
Thanks, Texagun! (by the way, great name)
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Reverend P. Babcock Chase on April 30, 2015, 09:48:03 pm
Howdy Pards,

I don't know if this helps, but it has me confused. I have a pair of rodeos Ser.#'s E960 & E970. Matte finish (now polished back to a nice grey patina) with white-sided hammers and cone firing pins. I bought them late 2005 after a bit of a wait (a few months).

I guess Rodeos had a different serial range than the standard models. Anyone have info on this?

Reverend Chase
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on April 30, 2015, 09:50:29 pm
Reverend,
Thank you for the information and welcome to our forum!
CJF
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on April 30, 2015, 10:32:08 pm
Quote from: Reverend P. Babcock Chase
I guess Rodeos had a different serial range than the standard models. Anyone have info on this?

Every thing helps.  Much appreciated.

"Rodeo serial begins with various single letter (aka A were the first as far as I know)  followed by 3 digits"
Also there were a LHXXX series of custom Rodeos from Longhunter's shop.

I have seen guns with prefixs of  A, E, G, K, L.

More here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,54840.0.html   
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on April 30, 2015, 11:10:32 pm
So far my guess has been any thing but an A is USA...but it is only a guess.  I have a 300+ series LH that came with a Italian hammer.   So early "A"s are not the only Italian parts in a Rodeo I have seen.

But not seen a B or a C or a D :)
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on April 30, 2015, 11:20:29 pm
I should call LH and see when mine were built.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on April 30, 2015, 11:45:10 pm
(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/481116000/481116168/pix629033232.jpg)

no clue what hammer on this one...

(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/480909000/480909487/pix022454695.jpg)

cone firing pins on these Rodeo II

sorry no dates but some data worth filing away
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Monsai52 on May 01, 2015, 12:03:34 am
So far my guess has been any thing but an A is USA...but it is only a guess.  I have a 300+ series LH that came with a Italian hammer.   So early "A"s are not the only Italian parts in a Rodeo I have seen.

But not seen a B or a C or a D :)

My Rodeo is D892, case coloured hammer and cone firing pin.  Bought it used early last year.

Best regards,
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: RVK on May 01, 2015, 11:12:21 am
Henry Nettleton Artillery Model w/ 5.5 inch barrel.  HN 47191.  Was ordered in the Fall of 1999 and shipped from USFA on Dec 01, 1999 as indicated in the USFA Historical Letter.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 01, 2015, 11:58:44 am
RVK good stuff thank you.

Can you tell me if his is the hammer in your Neddleton gun?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2X5LSUKhbhc/VUM4Tag6h-I/AAAAAAAAmPQ/JNVtAUSCfLc/s1600/hammer%2B2.jpg)
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Rodeo Romeo on May 01, 2015, 01:54:46 pm
Rodeos all;
matte blue all;
USA parts all;
  LH154 undated
  D889 July 2003
  E134 August 2003
  G130 September 2003
  G372 November 2003
  G916 undated
  K432 undated
  SKA050 October 2007
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Wellington on May 01, 2015, 05:08:21 pm
Hello-

I am new to the forum and a big fan of USFA & Colts. I would like to contribute to Yahoody and the USFA research project he is taking on.

Gunslinger model is a 357 S&W CTG s-n 589xx and the engraved Turnbull/USFA is SP1xx.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 10, 2015, 09:59:37 pm
Does anyone know the total number of guns USFA produced?
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 10, 2015, 10:16:56 pm
they are still producing new guns.  Just no SAA guns obviously.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 11, 2015, 02:19:29 am
they are still producing new guns.  Just no SAA guns obviously.

USFA is dead and gone.  There may still be the ZipFactory but you know darn well that is not what we are talking about.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 11, 2015, 12:10:33 pm
"USFA is dead and gone"

Actually according to the BATF and the records keeping they are still alive and well and still making guns.

I wasn't intentionally trying to be obtuse.  Just making the point.  The owner of the FFL..in this case Doug Donnelly, I'd assume, has the FFL records.  That is the only record that I know of that would offer the info requested accurately and only then if the books were  kept well.  Past employee admissions and BATF suggestions makes that seem unlikely.  The same books that were kept during SAA production would hold the info requested if you could get Donnelly to tally and release it.   Same books that would continue to record the Zip guns or anything else Donnelly decides to make under the USFA name.

Even that info seems tainted and useless IMO..because every Uberti, then every Italian clone they marked USPFA and USFA and then every Frankenstein Uberti gun built, then eventually, every USA made gun would all be in his bound book.  No requirement to separate any of them.  Only that the numbers be in sequence.   On the USPFA and USFA guns it hardly matters at some point if you look into the various generations and build quality from USFA.  Frankly the differences are a bit of a nightmare.

An example.."how many Uberti guns were built under the USPFA name?"  Or How many Uberti guns were built under the USFA name?" or "How many guns were made with parts from both Uberti and USA made parts?"  Makes the original question rather obtuse....in my opinion.

Colt's records by comparison are a treasure trove of very accurate history.



 
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 11, 2015, 01:49:36 pm
Did USFA have a plant outside of Connecticutt?  I am doing some research in the BATF files to see what production was reported.  I can find the semi-autos and revolvers.  But, oddly enough, I cannot find any references to USFA rifles.  The records are by state, so I am wondering if the Lightning parts were made/assembled outside of Conn.  After I get done I'll post what I have found.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 11, 2015, 01:55:39 pm
Among other things of interest might be how black powder firearm's production numbers were separated from the center fire arms in ATF records.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 11, 2015, 02:11:27 pm
Among other things of interest might be how black powder firearm's production numbers were separated from the center fire arms in ATF records.

If you mean C&B, they aren't.  C&Bs aren't considered firearms.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 11, 2015, 02:20:42 pm
Sorry, my mistake..the conversions from C&B.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 11, 2015, 05:25:21 pm
OK, here is what I discoverered.  The ATF on-line records only go back to 1998.  USFA showed no production in the 1998 and 1999 annual reports.  From 2000 to 2011 they show 647 semi-autos produced and 37,002 revolvers produced.  2010 was far and away the biggest year with 12,007 produced.  I suspect this was to clear out as many remaining parts as possible in anticipation of closing down operations.  The number dropped to 48 in 2011 which is the last year ATF shows any records for USFA.  This certainly isn't a definitive numbers as I could find no record of USFA's rifle production.  The best guess I have for the rilfes is less than 500 were produced.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 11, 2015, 08:29:19 pm
Interesting info.
Despite the fact one gun listed previously here was from 1999.  I have four in boxes, labeled 6-97 all with USFA barrels.  Boxes and guns now where near the same production date is easy to explain but 3 or 4 years later?  Any thing is possible for sure.  Just makes the mystery surrounding USFA more interesting.

I do like the fact that there were only 44,350 total Bisley's were manufactured by Colt BITD.

Personally I would doubt 37,000 as a USFA total.  Or over 12,000 in one year.
Makes no sense to me that one year's production was 12,000.  When they reportedly only produced 37,000 total.

I'd also really want to see the bound book to see how the obvious Uberti frames/guns were listed..  Imports or manufactured?    I'd bet the number of imported "guns" by serial numbers from both USPFA and USFA would be enlightening.

By those numbers that is just over 3 years production....in your reported 10+ years.

I am sure Gary G. could give a more accurate insight.  But I doubt from previous comments anyone ever thought USFA was closing down until the last Holiday season when they simply did.

Knowing where many of the parts eventually went ..it would appear what you have suggested never happened.  Again Gary is the best reference we have for that info.

Either way I have no doubt the USFA, 100% USA guns were built in fairly small numbers by comparison to any manufacture short of may be Freedom Arms.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 11, 2015, 10:40:49 pm
In case you have never seen one of the ATF reports I am attaching a llnk to 2010.  This is the year USFA reported 12,007 produced.  What makes these difficult to follow is that they are not in alphabetical order.  They are listed by state.  So, scroll down through the pistols to the revolver section and look for Connecticutt (CT) and then USFA.  They break things down by caliber.  Most years the annual production was only around 2,000 so 2010 really stands out.  I doubt they would lie on a federal report.

https://www.atf.gov/files/statistics/download/afmer/2010-final-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 11, 2015, 11:24:26 pm
Ruger makes over one million guns per year.  That's over 83,000 per month.  1000 per month is not that much for a manufacturing facility.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 12, 2015, 01:50:25 am
A quick review of the ATF records I could find showed:

Guns built in 2000, 2001, 2002, 20003, nothing I can find for 2004, more guns in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.  Been working with the ATF for decades...mistakes makes perfect sense to me as does poor book keeping and reporting by a manufacture.

Here is what I have found in the past according to the reported numbers via ATF public records for US Firearms revolvers by caliber.

1997 to 1999 not found

2000
.22-0
.32-7
.357-0
.38-49
.44-49
.45-589

2001
.22-0
.32-10
.357-0
.38-43
.44-41
.45-927

2002
.22-0
.32-14
.357-0
.38-130
.44-23
.45-1004

2003
.22-0
.32-10
.357-0
.38-441
.44-1031
.45-472

2004 (not found)
.22-
.32-
.357-
.38-
.44-
.45-

2005
.22-41
.32-20
.357-0
.38-299
.44-354
.45-1832

2006
.22-32
.32-19
.357-0
.38-573
.44-268
.45-1331

2007
.22-60
.32-710
.357-1
.38-1693
.44-1361
.45-3279

2008
.22 - 3003
.32 - 31
.357 - 19
.38 - 619
.44 - 417
.50 - 4245

2009
.22-198
.32-17
.357-24
.38-220
.44-228
.45-895

2010
.22-1573
.32-141
.357-7
.38-1208
.44-1738
.45-7350

2011
.22-10
.32-0
.357-0
.38-5
.44-14
.45-19


Not that these number actually mean anything...but a few totals anyway.

.22-4914
.32-989
.357-51
.38-5280
.44-5524
.45-21943

38,701

I am terrible at transposing numbers so please let me know when you find a mistake.



Nothing specific listed in .30 Carbine which is a true .308.  Nothing specific on the 38WCF or the .41 Colt either.  Both .40 cal. 

Fact is.... every one is guessing on numbers built/caliber and date of production by serial numbers (or who actually manufactured the revolver Uberti or USFA) until the original bound books are examined and then published in detail.

*edited several times for clarity and earlier mistakes/misrepresentations*
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pettifogger on May 12, 2015, 10:05:36 am
You just missed a few years or looked in the wrong place.  For example 2008 shows:

.22 - 3003
.32 - 31
.357 - 19
.38 - 619
.44 - 417
.50 - 4245

Total for 2008 - 8334

They have an odd way of reporting.  .44 means UP TO .44.  .50 means UP TO .50 (which is the largest legal caliber).  So your 30 Carbine would be under .32.  For some reason the only caliber specific revolver category is .357.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 12, 2015, 11:38:18 am
Good info thank you.

I'll add 2008 to the list above.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Tascosa Joe on May 12, 2015, 12:34:38 pm
I am sending my 3 Serial Numbers to the list.

Henry Nettelton:  47411 Purchased new in 2010

634DT Doug Turnbull:  Black Powder Frame, 4 3/4"  45 Colt BCH Purchased used 2009 but the box has the shipping paper work to the original purchaser in 2008.

24912 Pre War Black Powder Frame 4 3/4" BCH 45 Colt  Purchased used 2009

Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 12, 2015, 01:42:50 pm
Thanks Joe, I'll add yours to the mix.

We are just starting to get a idea of the serial number production/delivery dates.  Going to take a lot more # to get a truth worthy and easily usable data base.

These are numbers I can verify shipping dates on:

-1999-
2102x
216XX

2002
A675
A676

-2004-
2271x
2276x
22966
22967
2299x
2310x
23123
2313x
78018

-2007-
2547x
2548x
T78018

-2008-
24254
2547x
2548x

-2009-
2547x
2725x
US10XX

Estimated production dates.. heavy on the description of "estimated"!

-1999-
2102x

2001
Nov-A582

2002
Jan-A671
A675
A676
B514
C2xx

2003
July - D889
aug- E134
sept-  G130
nov-  G372

-2004-
2271x
2276x
22966
2299x
2310x
23123
2313x

2005
E960
E970
Sept- 285XX


2006
436DT
590DT
618DT
78018 

2007
oct- SKA050
2547x
2548x
T78018

2008
634DT
24254
2547x
2548x
Nov- 262XX


2009
24912 
27256
27257
27258 
US10XX

2010
oct- 731xx
282xx
47411

2011
284XX
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Whiskey Hayes on May 14, 2015, 09:15:53 am
I have a pair of Rodeos A675 and A676.  In each box there is a small envelope with a label listing model, barrel length, serial number, rifling spec, gunsmith name and date.  The date on each is January 15, 2002.  I purchased them new in March, 2002.  Inside the envelope is a fired case.

I also have a pair of SAA BP frame USFA.  Serial number 22966 and 22967.  There isn't an envelope with detailed specs in either box or any reference to a date.  I did order them in Jan 2004 and received them in July of 2004.

Hope this helps.

Whiskey Hayes
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 14, 2015, 11:20:33 am
Thanks Whiskey, I added your numbers.  Verified numbers like that are a huge help sorting the rest.

I like your pair of BPs!  I own #23123, BP, 4 3/4", .45.  Sweet guns.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pangaea on May 15, 2015, 10:24:58 pm
I wonder how many man hours it took to produce a single revolver?  I'm sure it was different for each model depending on finish, etc.  Another thread mentioned five hours just to polish a pistol for refinishing, just think how long from raw steel to a fabulous heirloom. 
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 15, 2015, 10:34:18 pm
From a block of steel to finished product is a lot different than a cosmetic refinish.  It is a lot easier to fit and polish parts at the right time in production from a pile of parts, than it is to go back and refinish/rebuild anything.

The higher the original quality of part out of the CNC machines the easier/less hand fitting it takes to build a high quality end product. 

Once out of the machines, and many specific steps later, things go together a lot faster than you might think.   

Think building a house to spec....compared to a major remodel.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: HeckThomas on May 17, 2015, 07:32:04 pm
My four are all BP frames with square rear sights and un-tapered front sights and appear to be USA made guns per Yahoody's and others "things to look for".

2006  SN 78018  .44WCF x 5.5" Single Action finish to re-produce my Grandpa's SAA

2007   SN T78018 .44WCF x 5.5" Pre War finish (funny story on this one)

2008   SN 24254  .45 x 7.5" Pre War finish  

????    SN 47206 Henry Nettleton This was a personal gun of one of the USFA employees that found a home at Turnbull's. Bought in
          2011. Karl liked the easier to see sights, too.

Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pangaea on June 01, 2015, 08:50:10 am
I was inventorying my pistols, taking pictures for insurance and a 4 3/4 inch 38 special, serial number 22187 had the later cone firing pin and a Uberti frame.  First one in the bunch I have seen like this.   
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on June 01, 2015, 10:17:30 am
Interesting stuff as always.  From what we have collected prior:

21213 parts gun
21215 parts gun
21651 parts gun
22113 parts gun
22180 parts gun*  transitional guns by the # out of order?
22187 parts gun with a Uberti frame..cone firing pin (38Special)

22154 USA gun*  transitional guns by the # out of order?
22293 cone USA
22421  cone firing pin
22934 cone USA gun

Wonder if it was one of the last Uberti frames to be used?   May the answer is in the re-highlighted quote below...
Either way USFA left us with a good detective story to sort through.

Quote from: Wheeler dealer
...The FIRST saa numbered at the old colt plant was ser no 20100.... Made from imported UBERTI parts.  Prior to that the parts came in already numbered.   Imported parts (internally?)  were replaced with parts made in USA ......  At the time of the move to the new plant there were about 25 old uberti frames left and they were never used as new frames were being produced at the new bld.   ...... after the new plant was up and running no uberti parts were used.   In the event that an old uberti gun came back for repair it was updated to the new hammer trigger hand and bolt.  Firing pins do not always tell you when the gun was made as the cone pin was standard some times the conical was used in 38 or 357  calibers. The cone pin had a recoil plate with a .110 hole and conical was smaller.


I'd sure like to know the serial number of the FIRST USA made frame.   But so far it looks to be between 22100 and 22200.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pangaea on June 05, 2015, 12:04:01 am
I picked up a China Camp today, serial # cc 478.  The test target with it was dated 6/2003.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Pangaea on June 12, 2015, 11:45:13 am
Here's an odd one.  I have a Buntline that has a serial number of 28853, but has a Uberti frame and firing pin. 
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: markg44 on June 12, 2015, 01:46:20 pm
I think I remember reading that all the buntline frames were Uberti.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Blackpowder Burn on June 13, 2015, 10:33:01 am
I'll add mine to the mix.......

25780 - Premium SAA, 44 WCF, 4-3/4" barrel, CCH Hammer, purchased from Long Hunter 2007
25781 - Premium SAA, 44 WCF, 4-3/4" barrel, CCH Hammer, purchased from Long Hunter 2007

L235 - Rodeo, 45 Colt, 4-3/4" barrel, purchased from Long Hunter 2008
L236 - Rodeo, 45 Colt, 4-3/4" barrel, purchased from Long Hunter 2008

Lightning Rifle #2115, 44 WCF carbine with a rifle buttstock and what appears to be upgraded wood. Purchased 2010 I think, but didn't keep records.

I spoke to Gary Granger and tried to order a Lightning, and he told me that USFA had ceased production by then, having made a total of "about" 400 rifles.  I then searched the internet and found mine on Gunbroker, NIB.

That's the lightning I'm shooting in my photo  ;D
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on June 16, 2015, 10:07:41 pm
Here's an odd one.  I have a Buntline that has a serial number of 28853, but has a Uberti frame and firing pin. 

disheartening at best
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: usroady on June 30, 2015, 04:56:57 pm
For my USFAs (Dates are from the fired cartridge envelopes):

Rodeo II Sheriff .45 Colt 3" SMB050 November 2007
Rodeo A667 .45 Colt 4-3/4" January 2002

Great effort - glad to contribute!  Mike.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 02, 2015, 11:33:57 am
Thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Capt. John Fitzgerald on August 03, 2015, 09:38:29 pm
BTT
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Joel6180 on September 10, 2015, 08:27:14 am
I posted this gun elsewhere, so I imagine you have the info, but just in case, CB658, 45 Colt, Cowboy.  The only date I can find is red ink 9/11/09 on the safety & instruction manual.  Red ink has also underlined many places in the manual under important information.  I didn't know if this was owner's or manufacturers dates & markings.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: hanover67 on December 07, 2015, 11:04:14 pm
My Single Action USFA .44 Special has a serial number of 28657. It is a 4 3/4, full dome blue Single Action model with black rubber grips. My invoice from my gun dealer is August 2011 but the gun was original ordered in 2009. I'm pretty sure it was made in 2011, close to the date is was received. The box contains no date information or test target, only a form to register it for a "Lifetime Warranty"...
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: GaryG on December 08, 2015, 11:12:47 am
If your gun was ordered in 2009 but not delivered until Aug 20011, the build process wasn't started until Jun/Jul 2011.  Any red underling or highlighting was done by the original owner
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on December 08, 2015, 11:36:39 am
Gary, Any idea how high the numbers went as the shop closed?
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: buckhammer on January 10, 2018, 12:38:39 pm
Hi,
I have a Matt blue Rodeo S/N S667 I bought about 3 years ago from a guy at my gun range.  I'd like to know about what year it was made, I'm guessing is was one of the last Rodeo's before USFA closed up.  It's a 45 Colt with 5 1/2 barrel.  I have since turned it into a Premier model.  Nicest SAA I have even before I had it redone by Longhunters in Amarillo.  Checked my matching box and it has a date of 2006 inside the lid on the USFA Label.  The owner's manual has a date of 2004
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: charleshammond on January 16, 2018, 09:51:22 am
I have a USFA bought 01/15/2017 from Main Street Guns, Bayboro, NC, it is Bone Blue, with a serial number of D913. Can you give me any information on it?
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on January 16, 2018, 09:53:16 am
By the picture and the number it looks to be a USA made Rodeo.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: The Pathfinder on January 22, 2018, 02:22:42 pm
I guess I should add my paltry few as well.

Henry Nettleton 47119, a Uberti parts gun, bbl is USPFA, I got it used in 1999 or 2000.
Rodeos, A720 and A724,45 Colt, 4 3/4", Uberti parts guns, bought around 1997 or 98, I had to wait almost 6 months after I ordered them.
Rodeo Sheriff, SMA049, matte blue, USA gun, bought around 2007.
Doug Turnbull pair, 44 WCF, 7 1/2", BP frames 737DT, 738DT, bought around 2011 or 12. Look to be US parts.

Well, there's my half dozen, hope they help add to the confusion.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: satchmo on February 07, 2018, 03:21:57 pm
I have two to add:

4 3/4 45 Colt Pre War SN 23659  Has cone firing pin but hammer does not appear to have hand cut checkering. USA gun?

5 1/2 45 Colt Pre War SN 26014  Appears to be 100% USA gun.

Bought both guns in 2011 used.  Have no idea when they were originally purchased, sorry.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on February 07, 2018, 03:52:40 pm
Quote from: satchmo

4 3/4 45 Colt Pre War SN 23659  Has cone firing pin but hammer does not appear to have hand cut checkering. USA gun?

Thanks for the additions gentlemen.


Fully 100% USA made guns started around 22500.  So you are well above those numbers on 23659.  You should have hand cut checkering on the hammer. 

Here are three of the hand cut USFA hammer patterns used...but there could be others as well.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rF0wqk_1um4/VUM5hHu_JOI/AAAAAAAAmPo/sEORz7CJqf8/s1600/DSC01616.JPG)
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: satchmo on February 08, 2018, 10:04:31 pm
Ah, yes!...  The hammer on 23659 is the spitting image of the hammer pictured on the far left.

I was comparing it to the hammer on 26014 which is like the one on the far right.

Interesting that they would use patterns that are so different.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on February 09, 2018, 09:14:15 am
Hammer on the far left, with the border, should be on a black powder frame.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Buck Stinson on February 09, 2018, 07:34:18 pm
Serial number 22555, 4 3/4" .44WCF.  Blued and cased. Smokeless frame.

Serial number 27364, 4 3/4" .38WCF.  Blued and cased.  Smokeless frame.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: satchmo on February 11, 2018, 10:03:01 am
Yahoody,

23659 is definitely not a black powder frame.

Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on February 11, 2018, 11:29:36 am
Beautiful gun either way.  Hammer fits..and no question it was hand checkered early on :)

(http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55093.0;attach=61598;image)
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: satchmo on February 11, 2018, 03:37:37 pm
Thanks!

It's my favorite SAA.

Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 10, 2018, 01:08:35 pm
Some wonderful guns and info here.  Thanks to everyone!  I am just now trying to put it all into some sort of order and one place on the Internet for easy access to all.  Please feel free to add anything  you have for serial numbers or data points of interest.

more via Ben, "I have A582 built in 2001 and has a dated empty cartridge envelope for November 2001 signed by good ol' Al V. The second is B514 and it left the factory in September 2002. That date came from USFA before the doors shut. They also confirmed that those guns were when some Uberti parts were still being used. "
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on May 10, 2018, 09:08:31 pm
yahoody, I have five US made USFA's but I didn't purchase them new, although some of them either have never been fired or I was the first to fire them, so I don't know the dates they were made. Do you want the serial numbers anyway?
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 10, 2018, 11:21:55 pm
Quote from: Buckaroo Lou
..... I don't know the dates they were made. Do you want the serial numbers anyway?

You bet Lou, every number helps sort them all out.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: CJS57 on July 06, 2018, 03:10:08 pm
Prewar 4 3/4" Walnut, case colored BP frame and hammer, walnut grips and 2 - .45 Colt caliber cylinders both serial numbered to the gun. All on shown on the end label. NIB and perfect all USA of course. Serial 28,285. How close to the end of production is this gun? Thanks!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 06, 2018, 05:04:57 pm
CJ...no one really knows that is talking, but I suspect your gun is in the last year of production.  Not seen a 29000's gun but that is suppose to be the end of "normal" production.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 07, 2018, 12:34:07 am
Prewar 4 3/4" Walnut, case colored BP frame and hammer, walnut grips and 2 - .45 Colt caliber cylinders both serial numbered to the gun. All on shown on the end label. NIB and perfect all USA of course. Serial 28,285. How close to the end of production is this gun? Thanks!

silly question I know but are you sure the are both 45 Colt and not one a 45acp?
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: CJS57 on July 07, 2018, 06:26:36 am
Yes both are 45 Colt cal. I examined both cylinders and they are 45 Colt not ACP. Plus the box end label also has the gun as 45 Colt and the extra cylinder as 45 Colt as well. Very unusual but that is how it was made and shipped. All NIB and untouched and never handled. It was Collected since new and is 100%. Owner got tired of it. Cost me 2k.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 07, 2018, 08:46:45 am
Thanks, sounds like a neat gun!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: mickee on July 13, 2018, 04:01:40 pm
Hello!  Thought I would submit USFA Ser # 58988, Gunslinger, .45, 4 3/4, BP frame, walnut grips. I ordered this gun new from USFA around 2005/2006.  I ordered the gunslinger because of the aged finish.  This SA is a working gun, my personal carry weapon for about 10 years down here in Texas,  and it shows it.  I didn't want a gun that was to pretty to use on a daily basis.  Its personality just gets better with age and use.  I love this gun, flawless operation, shoots right to the point of aim, couldn't ask for better!  Hope this information is of use to your project.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Dave T on July 13, 2018, 06:44:56 pm
Hello!  Thought I would submit USFA Ser # 58988, Gunslinger, .45, 4 3/4, BP frame, walnut grips. I ordered this gun new from USFA around 2005/2006.  I ordered the gunslinger because of the aged finish.  This SA is a working gun, my personal carry weapon for about 10 years down here in Texas,  and it shows it.  I didn't want a gun that was to pretty to use on a daily basis.  Its personality just gets better with age and use.  I love this gun, flawless operation, shoots right to the point of aim, couldn't ask for better!  Hope this information is of use to your project.

mickee,

I am green with envy (smile). I would love to have that very gun to go with the 7-1/2" Gunslinger 45 Colt with a BP frame I have. I hate the name "Gunslinger" but have learned to love the finish as applied by the factory since acquiring mine.

I am so jealous,
Dave
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 13, 2018, 07:25:21 pm
Thank you Mickee.  Great info!  And a really nice gun.

I thought about DaveT when seeing your gun.  I see he has  ;D
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: mickee on July 14, 2018, 01:20:59 pm
To Dave T and Yahoody, glad you found the info useful.  Regarding the name "gunslinger" that USFA hung on that SA, I'm in agreement, horrible name for that weapon but the usefullness of that SA outweighs all else.  I'm not the USFA guru some of you folks are but as far as I can tell this is a 100% USFA made gun.  As I stated previously, this is my daily carry gun, both open carry and concealed.  Its a bit large and heavy for concealed but carried in a tight to the body Mernickle holster and a good stiff, thick leather belt and a loose shirt it works out OK.  If I get a chance I'll try to get a photo posted to give an idea of what this shooter looks like with 10 years plus of honest daily wear on her. Worn grey/silver, honest holster wear and worn walnut.  Each year that goes by I like this shooter more and more.  Everyone be well!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Dave T on July 15, 2018, 02:44:23 pm
I love the idea of shooting these guns. Of course that pretty well places me outside the "collector" class but I can't help it. For 51 years now I have found myself selling guns I don't shoot. It usually takes about 2 years but if I haven't fired it in that length of time the bloom is off the rose. Yea I've gotten rid of some guns I now miss (don't ask about my 1st Gen Colts, it'll start me crying) but I am at heart a shooter.

I'm looking for an all US pre-war USFA BP frame, 45 Colt, 4-3/4" or a BP framed  Gunslinger in that length. They are rare birds but I guarantee if I locate either one and can afford it, I will shoot it and I mean more than once to say I did. Probably with BP loads at that. (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: mickee on July 15, 2018, 03:33:12 pm
To Dave T. You have probably seen it but I'll give you a heads up anyway.  Gunbroker has a .45 USFA Gunslinger, 4 3/4,  58XXX serial range I believe.  However it is not a BP frame but is for sale at a low price with no bids on it.  Says unfired, but I don't know about that.  I've seen better patina finishes but the the low asking it might be worth a look see.  Best wishes
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 15, 2018, 04:51:01 pm
Looks to be #58697.  Gunslinger for sure.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/777762824 
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Tascosa Joe on August 17, 2018, 08:38:47 pm
Here is another SN.
Custer Battlefield SN # 6733.  I bought this one used in 2009 or so and sold it to a buddy later.  I looked at it last night and it appears to be an American made pistol.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: LonesomePigeon on August 19, 2018, 11:40:15 am
I think all Custer Battlefield's are 100% USA. The earliest reference I can find to the Custer Battlefield is in the 2005 catalog. The 2004 catalog does not list the Custer Battlefield. The same is true for the Gunslinger, it's not in the 2004 catalog but it is in the 2005 catalog.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Tascosa Joe on August 21, 2018, 07:57:23 pm
I was at the LGS today and they have a 38 Spl Rodeo, Stainless fire blued screws and brownish grips SN # K602  asking $1595
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: dmentzer on April 07, 2019, 05:01:29 pm
I have a number to add:
Single Action #25904.
Full nickel finish, 4.75", .38 Special, hard rubber grips.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: hanover67 on April 09, 2019, 01:06:46 pm
I have a USFA Single Action (Stated on box) 4 3/4" .44 Special, serial No. 28657, purchased 8/24/2011.

This gun was originally ordered through a local gun shop as a 4 3/4" Rodeo II, .44 Spl. in March 2010. However, there were delays: USFA stopped the matte nickel process, then they ran out of .44 barrels and finally notified my dealer that they were about to ship the wrong gun (5 1/2"). This took about a year or so. Finally I talked to Gary, at the factory, and we agreed on an all-blued 4 3/4" .44 Spl Single Action, marked "Russian and S & W .44" in May 2011. Based on the date of the phome call and the receipt of the gun, it was manufactured between May and August of 2011.

The original quoted price for the Rodeo II was $775, including a $150 "specisl" charge for .44 Special chambering as Rodeo II's were only then offered in .38 Spl. or .45 Colt. My final cost with a $30 background check fee and 8% sales tax was $872.81.

Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on April 09, 2019, 01:19:49 pm
Thank you all for adding serial numbers!  Much appreciated.

Hanover that is an interesting gun...being a 28XX serial number and all blue.  I've had three of the 44 Special/Russians.  All 4 3/4".  Only one left here now.  But always liked the original style Colt 44 roll marks.

Congrads to all for owning some mighty fine guns!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: buttebob on May 24, 2019, 07:20:04 am
Not a USFA but a USPtF: 4 3/4", 45 Colt, #201xx. Sold on GB yesterday for $625.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Dave T on May 24, 2019, 09:35:48 pm
Serial number for the "Colt and S&W Special 38" Gunslinger (I hate that name) 4-3/4" I just acquired is #58810. Another one for your data.

Dave
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on May 25, 2019, 12:39:49 am
Thank you both Gentlemen!
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: ChuckS1 on June 30, 2019, 08:35:21 am
I have a USFA Pre-War, serial number 28629, 5 1/2", bought on Gunbroker Dec 2007.  Based on the other threads here, I believe it is a USA parts gun.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: Dave T on June 30, 2019, 05:12:29 pm
Chuck,

With that 28,692 serial number I would bet you are right. You didn't say what caliber it's in. We are naturally curious. (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: LonesomePigeon on July 03, 2019, 09:48:19 am
Does 28629 seem like a high number for 2007? I don't know, I'm just asking.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: yahoody on July 03, 2019, 02:06:50 pm
28XXX serial number would typically be a Buntline from USFA

It could be a early USFA from Uberti parts.   But have to see the photos of the gun to tell one way or the other.

Or could just as easily be a really nice Prewar with a custom serial number to match and old Colt :o

"I have a USFA Pre-War, serial number 28629, 5 1/2"

Love to see some photos of what you have.  If you can't post them you can send them to my email and I will for you.
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: russ1943 on July 04, 2019, 01:20:01 pm
Here is a link gunbroker SN29XXX 45LC 7.5
 https://www.gunbroker.com/item/819472024
Title: Re: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!
Post by: ChuckS1 on July 10, 2019, 08:34:11 am
Chuck,

With that 28,692 serial number I would bet you are right. You didn't say what caliber it's in. We are naturally curious. (smile)

Dave

I took another look at the serial number and it looks like it's 23692, not 28692. The caliber is .45 Colt.  I noticed that the barrel is turning a plum color, like my old Ruger Flattop.  Here are some pictures. 

(https://i.imgur.com/1O29lQE.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/rO8Zf08.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/Jo56pxY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oVXWvLP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gfze8uW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0Xsp9Oy.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PBsb9sK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6NAVjC5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oDF9Nn2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vpNb104.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SA3LYkp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/P09DbIo.jpg)