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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 18, 2015, 09:49:40 am

Title: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 18, 2015, 09:49:40 am
Just a note CPL:  You do not have to have a uniform to shoot the main match.  (Just don't show up in a ball cap and sneakers!)  If you need the money for the rifle, get the rifle first.  Clothes are easy to do anytime, especially this uniform.  

Let us know how it goes.  Sporterized Krags are often lower priced, and can be remilitarized to Carbine spec fairly easily.

Krag--Check

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/Alpha-17/Real%20Steel/Long%20Arms/10994943_10100229368061872_2234352134172763297_n.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/Alpha-17/media/Real%20Steel/Long%20Arms/10994943_10100229368061872_2234352134172763297_n.jpg.html)

Now for the uniform.  And learn how to shoot the Krag.  ::)
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Niederlander on February 18, 2015, 11:31:07 am
Very cool!  If you ever decide to shoot it with the bayonet attached, make sure the bayonet is completely latched.  Let's just say I know bad things happen if you don't!
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Pitspitr on February 18, 2015, 12:40:58 pm
Krag--Check
And learn how to shoot the Krag.  ::)
One of the most important things we've learned is to make certain the OCL is right. If you use too short a bullet the cartridge won't feed. Scruffy Skippy makes a good 220 gr RN lead bullet. 402-276-1391
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Niederlander on February 18, 2015, 03:22:23 pm
Pitsptr is right about overall cartridge length.  We saw one a few years back loaded with 150 grain bullets, and it was a jam-a-matic.  I was amazed at the time because I'd shot a Krag for years without even one jam.  Then again, I've only ever used 220 grain bullets, which is what it was designed for.  I think Drydock uses 180 grain bullets with complete success, but I'd ask him what he uses to be sure.  Trailboss is great for what we do.  Just fill the case to the base of the bullet.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: pony express on February 18, 2015, 04:44:47 pm
Not sure what Drydock uses, but mine are a pointed bullet from a Lyman mould, I think they weigh in about 185gr. Made the mistake of trying some 165gr flat point 30-30 cast one time. Just ONE time. Those didn't agree with my '03 either. It's when you use the short bullets that you have to carefully place the rounds in the magazine one at a time to avoid rimlock. If they're long enough, you just dump a handful in the mag and close it, they align themselves fine.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Drydock on February 18, 2015, 04:51:25 pm
I use the Lee 200, melted chilled shot, unsized, cheapest gas checks I can find, crimped in the crimp groove.  2.5cc dipper Trail Boss and a WLR primer.  Slicker'n snot on a doorknob.  Hornday 220 and 40 grains IMR 4350 for a Milspec load that shoots to the sights.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Drydock on February 18, 2015, 04:56:05 pm
I use the Lee 200, melted chilled shot, unsized, cheapest gas checks I can find, crimped in the crimp groove.  2.5cc dipper Trail Boss and a WLR primer.  Slicker'n snot on a doorknob.  Hornday 220 and 40 grains IMR 4350 for a Milspec load that shoots to the sights.

BTW, looks like a very nice M1896 with the M1898/02 tangent sight.  If that's an actual 1896, and not an 1898 in an earlier stock, it probably saw action.  We gonna get you up to speed fast on that one.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Niederlander on February 18, 2015, 05:05:01 pm
Not sure what Drydock uses, but mine are a pointed bullet from a Lyman mould, I think they weigh in about 185gr. Made the mistake of trying some 165gr flat point 30-30 cast one time. Just ONE time. Those didn't agree with my '03 either. It's when you use the short bullets that you have to carefully place the rounds in the magazine one at a time to avoid rimlock. If they're long enough, you just dump a handful in the mag and close it, they align themselves fine.

One thing I like about the 220 grain Lyman I use........it works great in the '03 as well.  I cast mine from wheel weights and use Lee liquid Alox.  My gas checks are from Gator.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 18, 2015, 06:44:40 pm
BTW, looks like a very nice M1896 with the M1898/01 tangent sight.  If that's an actual 1896, and not an 1898 in an earlier stock, it probably saw action.  We gonna get you up to speed fast on that one.

It is a 1896, and if the site I've been using to date my surplus rifles is accurate, was made in 1896.  I think the sight is the M1902, as it has the slightly larger "bump" in the side, and has the small "peep" sight that can be clicked into position along with the notch.

Thanks for the load data, everybody.  I'm not quite up to the level of casting my own bullets yet, but I do plan on working up some loads for this soon.  Good to know that flat point bullets are a no-go, since I've been looking at some for both this and my '03 on Midway.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: pony express on February 18, 2015, 09:27:38 pm
It's not so much the flat point, but the overall length. I think a Krag would feed full wadcutters, if they were just long enough! I don't remember exactly what the flat point 30-30 bullets did in my '03, just that they didn't work well.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Niederlander on February 18, 2015, 09:33:55 pm
If you ever do start casting your own, keep in mind the Lyman (then Ideal) 210 grain bullet was specifically designed for the Krag.  Perhaps that's why it works so well!
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Pitspitr on February 19, 2015, 10:10:26 am
I'm not quite up to the level of casting my own bullets yet, but I do plan on working up some loads for this soon.

I can cast, but I've found that I have time to cast,... OR...I have time to reload. I don't have time to do both.
Like I said;

Scruffy Skippy makes a good 220 gr RN lead bullet. 402-276-1391

These are what I use.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Quick Fire on February 19, 2015, 10:18:10 am
Where do you find the brass?

Quick Fire
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Pitspitr on February 19, 2015, 10:23:56 am
30/40 Brass usually isn't too hard to find. I've found some at gun shows. Sometimes folks acquire some that they don't need and they'll sell it. Midway or places like that usually have it. Sometimes I just buy modern loads shoot them for practice or hunting or whatever and then reload them with the loads and powder I want.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Quick Fire on February 19, 2015, 10:40:21 am
Midway and my other usual sources for brass don't have any 30-40.Krag. They do have Remington loaded ammo, but I'll wait to see if anyone near home has some so I don't have to pay shipping. Yea I'm cheap! ;D
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Pitspitr on February 19, 2015, 11:57:18 am
Keep an eye out for it they have it at least from time to time
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: pony express on February 19, 2015, 04:56:56 pm
Back to the bullets-forgot to mention that the groove diameters tend to run large, My Krag likes at least .310 diameter bullets.
Title: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 19, 2015, 08:26:34 pm
Because you guys are hijacking the uniform thread!

Krags are OAL sensitive.  The greatest mistake is the use of too light, too short bullets.  OAL should always be greater than 2.80.  Fortunately the long case neck gives great flexibility in bullet usage, but no real need to go below 170 grains.  Proper length will give slick feeding, and allow the cases to align naturally in the magazine.  

The Double Row Mills belt is absolutely essential, it is part of the rifle system.  Just as much as stripper clips are needed to properly utilize the 03 Springfield, a Krag cannot be truly operated without the Mills belt designed for it.  Grabbing a blind handful of cartridges from the belt places them properly in the hand for loading.  You will always come up with either 4,5, or 6, all of which can be used.  1, 2 or 3 is possible with just the thumb and one or two fingers for topping off.  

Grabbing with the LEFT hand from the belt will also place the cartridges in that hand best for loading as well, across the top and into the hopper.

The Krag magazine is traditionally referred to as a "Hopper" magazine.

Grabbing a handful with the right hand will place the cartridges across the palm, with the rims against the heel of the palm.  You will squeeze them between the thumb, index and middle fingers, letting them drop at a slight nose down attitude into the hopper.  (I talk at length, but this mostly happens without thought, the only real thought needed is to maintain the cartridge nose down as it drops)  If the cartridges are the proper length, they will automatically align for feeding when the hopper gate is closed.

Simply grabbing 2 by the rims with thumb and two fingers will allow you to literally throw them into the hopper with little thought.

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on February 20, 2015, 06:04:13 am
Yep, I think Chuck has pretty well covered it.  One of the nice things about the .30 U.S. round is that specific powder/bullet combinations don't seem to make that much difference.  Any suitable bullet over any suitable powder tends to shoot very well without any fussing.  Tempramental it's not!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Charles Isaac on February 20, 2015, 08:41:15 am



This is one of the reasons I love the GAF-Colonel Drydock is actually trying to tell you HOW to beat him! So many people in various organizations would rather let you walk in stupid, then commence to whipping your a$$ in competition! Why tell someone how to do your job when they might get better than you at it?-Because some people think it's the RIGHT thing to do!

Colonel Niederlander sent out instructions for winter practice that was designed to keep shooting skills honed during the off-season-yet another example of a competitor actually HELPING someone that he will potentially compete against!

This is one of the hallmarks of the GAF, and why they continue to be an exclusive and elite organization!!! :D



Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 20, 2015, 03:14:25 pm
As has been said, the .30 US is not a hard round to load.  And if ever a bottleneck case was made for cast bullets, it's this one.

There are those who will say the Krag will not feed Spitzers.  This is flat wrong.  The Krag will not feed SHORT spitzers.  If the OAL is within spec, the shape of the nose means next to nothing.  Flat, pointed, round, hollow point, the Krag will eat them all, as long as OAL is maintained.

For a military load that shoots to the sights, the search begins and ends with IMR 4350.  40 grains under a 220 Jacketed RN duplicates the pressures, velocity's, and numbers on the rim of the original.  As good a target or open sight hunting load as you will find for any Krag.  Lighter bullets can be used, and other powders, but this is the one if you want to know what Teddy Roosevelts shoulder felt like.

For close in steel plate shooting, any lead bullet 180 or more grains is fine, over a 3/4 case of Trail Boss.  Set the sight between 4 and 6 and you'll be right on target from 100 yds in.  See the Trail Boss KISS topic above.

Krags can vary in bore dimensions, Mine are both just under .309.  But they can go larger, though I've yet to slug one over .310.  Not saying they're not out there though.  Check yours and plan accordingly.  Mostly I think its 100 years of wear.  My M1898 Infantry is pretty much worn out, so I've got a brand new CMP Krag barrel waiting to go into it one of these days.  These barrels are a great deal IMHO, and any worn out Krag can be transformed by one.

https://estore.thecmp.org/?cat=BAR
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 20, 2015, 07:29:54 pm
THANK YOU DRYDOCK!!!!   ;D

I know I'm probably a good reason why the uniform thread got derailed, sorry about that.  Thanks again for the load info.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 20, 2015, 07:52:38 pm
You need one of these now Corporal!

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L54
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 20, 2015, 09:43:09 pm
You need one of these now Corporal!

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L54

Yes I do.  Between this and the links in the Uniform thread, I know where a decent chunk of my next paycheck will be going.  ::)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pay Dirt Norvelle on February 20, 2015, 10:39:22 pm
I managed to get an original belt on e-bay.  I was very lucky as it was in great shape and cost me only $60.00
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 21, 2015, 09:34:52 pm
A nice video of a Skirmish Run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHgdVbRvYM0
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Pay Dirt Norvelle on February 21, 2015, 11:03:29 pm
I noticed in one of the previous posts that if you shoot the Krag with the bayonet, just to make sure it is completely latched.  I have a nice bayonet for my Krag , but I just can not get it to latch all of the way.  Is there a trick to doing this as I don't want to do any grinding, etc.
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Niederlander on February 22, 2015, 07:10:40 am
Don't grind on it!  I guarantee if it won't latch it's got petrified grease or rust somewhere it shouldn't be.  It happens all the time as that channel that slides on to the bayonet lug is difficult to clean.  Soak that area with WD-40 to soften that stuff up, and then carefully use a sharp pointed tool to scrape that stuff out.  All the corners in that slot are sharp and square, so if they don't look that way, it's full of crud.  Look especially at the forward end of it.  Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on February 22, 2015, 08:51:50 am
A nice video of a Skirmish Run.
Gosh, its a shame you couldn't find video of somebody good.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 22, 2015, 08:54:32 am
Well doggone it, no one ever takes anv video of me!   :P

Someone good you say?    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hA_oiPeJ0c
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 22, 2015, 09:21:34 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh6YVhf0bcw   

Not a GAF Skirmish, but ol Hickock is always a fun watch.  He keeps that Krag topped off, but he needs a Mills belt, dammit!

I want to do a Skirmish out at our farm someday, using 2 liters as targets.  They react so well!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on February 23, 2015, 08:39:20 am
Well doggone it, no one ever takes anv video of me!   :P

Someone good you say?    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hA_oiPeJ0c
Yep Charles definitely qualifies as good ;D
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 23, 2015, 05:11:24 pm
Thanks a lot guys.  After watching those videos, I had to go order dies and cast bullets so I can go blast with my Krag.  What do you people have against my wallet?   ::)

Seriously though, all I need to do is find some Trail Boss and I can start working up a good plinking/CAS load for the Krag.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on February 23, 2015, 06:14:17 pm
Oh, we are REAL GOOD at spending your money fer ya! ;D
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on February 23, 2015, 06:32:11 pm
Jake, if you can't find Trailboss, you can use Unique, red dot, green dot, and similar pistol/shotgun powders. Big advantage of Trailboss is you can't double charge it-it just won't fit. When I use the others, I make a check stick from a pencil or dowel, to be sure.(I still don't do progressive, form me it's single stage with loading blocks.0
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 24, 2015, 05:06:30 pm
Jake, if you can't find Trailboss, you can use Unique, red dot, green dot, and similar pistol/shotgun powders. Big advantage of Trailboss is you can't double charge it-it just won't fit. When I use the others, I make a check stick from a pencil or dowel, to be sure.(I still don't do progressive, form me it's single stage with loading blocks.0

There's a local shop I go to that has had most powders in stock the last month or two, so I'm hoping they'll have TB.  If not, I do remember seeing the other powders you mentioned, so I'll have back up options. 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on February 24, 2015, 06:07:12 pm
Here's a basic article about cast bullets in military calibers, old article but good, although there's lots of new powders on the market since it was written:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article&s=e76dabcdf8197e919ed57de36315a253

Most appropriate for our shooting would be the "100 yard" loads listed, although the 16gr 2400 would work for the "long" range side matches we sometimes do. But I doubt loads with 2400 could be slowed down to meet regular match velocities.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on February 28, 2015, 05:04:26 pm
Found the Trail Boss, and my Midway order of Krag dies and 200gr Oregon Trail cast bullets arrived, and now I've got 20rds loaded up for testing.  Trying 11gr-12.5gr of Trail Boss in half-grain increase, 5 round batches, as well as slightly stouter .30-06 loads using the same bullet.  Now if I could just get the weather to cooperate, and I can go test these loads out.  Right now, I'm looking at 6 inches of snow, with more coming down.  ::) 

Hopefully tomorrow I can test 'em, and let y'all know if I blew up my Krag or not.  :-\
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on February 28, 2015, 07:00:02 pm
I use 11.5 gr in mine, but I've never done any serious load development, but it's plenty good for what we do. No real need to go hotter on the '06, I use the same charge in it, as well as for the 8X50RLebel. Only full size milsurp that it hasn't worked for me at 11.5 is a GEW98, bullets tumbled. But it worked fine in the GEW88, go figure.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on March 01, 2015, 08:27:52 pm
Weather cooperated today, and I hand the chance to test out the loads.  I've narrowed it down to two potential .30-06 loads, and will hopefully get it finalized tomorrow.  Had a bit of trouble with the .30-40 Krag loads, as I set my sight at "600", and then proceeded to shoot over my targets!  Fortunately, I figured out the problem quickly enough, but that still leaves me with three loads to retest tomorrow.  Oh, well.  Not going to complain about "having" to go out and shoot, even if they are "mouse-fart" loads.  ::)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on March 01, 2015, 09:59:32 pm
I've never needed to set my sights that high, usually I use either 400, or just below that at the "B" mark. My '03 hits close enough for steel knockdowns with the sight leaf folded down in the battle sight position.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on March 02, 2015, 02:46:16 pm
Finalized on the loadings, going with 16gr of Trail Boss in .30-06, and 12gr in .30-40 Krag.  The two loads seem to group well, and match the point of aim with the sights set to 6 and 4, respectively.  When I get the chance, I'll practice a bit more, and see if the '03's battle sight will work with these loads at ranges less than 100 yards.  Since the battle sight should be zeroed at 547 yards or so, it should be close enough to work.  Thanks for the help/info/advice everybody. 

Now, on to the uniform!  ::)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Charles Isaac on March 02, 2015, 08:05:12 pm


Now if I could just get the weather to cooperate, and I can go test these loads out.  Right now, I'm looking at 6 inches of snow, with more coming down. 




Yep, for some strange reason those old Springfield Armory guns won't shoot straight in the snow!  :D





Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on March 03, 2015, 09:22:44 am
I've found that NONE of my guns shoot very straight in the snow!  (Couldn't possibly be me...........could it?)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Charles Isaac on March 03, 2015, 12:06:37 pm


I've found that NONE of my guns shoot very straight in the snow!  (Couldn't possibly be me...........could it?)


Naaawww-it was the snow!

Remember this one I got from that guy up in Alaska?  Bet that's what happened to it-got shot in the snow! Blowed it apart! :D











(http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/kragbolo/KragBroke2.jpg?t=1257636550)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on March 03, 2015, 01:13:36 pm
And Neiderlander complains about crescent butt plates! Bet that one would be pretty uncomfortable to shoot even with mouse fart loads
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: River City John on March 03, 2015, 04:47:23 pm
That's an after-dinner rifle. You can pick your teeth with it as you sight it in.

RCJ
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on March 03, 2015, 05:03:57 pm

Yep, for some strange reason those old Springfield Armory guns won't shoot straight in the snow!  :D

The problem wasn't that the Krag couldn't shoot straight in the snow, it was that the shooter couldn't see the target at 100 yards!


And, possibly, the shooter is too much of a soft millennial to go out and shoot in a snow storm.  ::)

(http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/kragbolo/KragBroke2.jpg?t=1257636550)

Ouch.  Put a bayonet on that, and you could stab stuff on both ends.  :-\
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Charles Isaac on March 03, 2015, 05:44:58 pm




Ha Ha! Yep! A shard of walnut with a Krag attached to it!



Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on March 05, 2015, 05:04:06 pm
+1 on the new DCM barrels.  Made the mistake of shooting the 03 at winter range this year missed one at both 100 and 200 leaving me out in the cold.  My fault not the rifle the DCM barrel on it shoots just fine.  Just for grins shot the krag and went 10 for 10, which would have won the match.  I had the DCM barrel installed on it about 3 years ago when I could not put two consecutive rounds on a 20 x 24 target at 25 yards.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on March 25, 2015, 04:02:45 pm
A shooting Question....In the Movie "The Rough Riders"  They showed a fellow using a sling and shooting sticks?
  What type of leather sling should be installed on a Krag, or rolling block?also on a Mauser?
Mills belt for Krag, Bandoleer for Mauser and Rolling block?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: CPL Jayhawker Jake on March 25, 2015, 05:08:30 pm
A shooting Question....In the Movie "The Rough Riders"  They showed a fellow using a sling and shooting sticks?
  What type of leather sling should be installed on a Krag, or rolling block?also on a Mauser?
Mills belt for Krag, Bandoleer for Mauser and Rolling block?

The experts will undoubtedly know more, but from what I've read, the M1887 leather sling was the standard sling on the Rifle version of the Krag. 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on March 25, 2015, 05:12:54 pm
Not sure what sling they used on a Krag carbine, but the rifle one was like the Trapdoor. A 1903 sling will fit, but it's not the same, the Krag sling is one long strip of leather, not in 2 parts like the '03. The sling I have is from S&S firearms, it's OK but not great. it's made from 2 pieces of leather, spliced together, and it's color is a little "orangeish". I think the ultimate one comes from Turner Saddlery, but they may not always have them in stock, takes a good size hide to make one strap that long.

The Spanish used a rectangular black cartridge box (or a pair of them) for both the Roller and Mauser. But for Mexican revolutionary, anything goes, and 2 crossed bandoleers and a big sombrero would work fine.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on March 25, 2015, 09:04:15 pm
There are two appropriate slings for a Krag: the M1887, which is indeed a long piece of leather.  I was lucky to get one from Turner, its on my M1884 trapdoor now.  The other is the 1899 Mills sling, my favorite, I have one of these on my Krag Rifle and my 1895 Musket.

http://onlinemilitaria.net/products/3267-US-Mills-Web-Sling-for-Krag-and-Springfield-Rifles/

These are great slings.  A 1898 and earlier Krag carbine would use the same sling as the earlier Trapdoor carbine, the classic over shoulder cavalry sling and clip.  The 1899 and later carbines had no provision for slings, and were carried in a leather scabbard attached to the troopers saddle.  The rare Engineers carbine (approx 400 made) were M1899 carbines with a rifle sling loop in the butt, with a rifle sling barrel band, and used the standard rifle sling.

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on March 25, 2015, 09:07:03 pm
http://www.turnersling.com/special-order-items.php

The best, order one, then use the Mills sling until it shows up!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on March 26, 2015, 10:59:28 am
Thanks for the Info....It looks like I can use my SMLE sling for a while.
I'll look for pictures of the Pouches and see if I can sew some up.   Along with Boer wars equipment, Bitish?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on March 26, 2015, 12:06:52 pm
If I were looking for info on British stuff, I'd be getting in touch with Rattlesnake Jack
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on March 27, 2015, 06:02:59 am
I can heartily second that!  He's helped me tremendously on my Australian impressions.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on April 01, 2015, 10:32:26 pm
Turners actually taking orders for the Krag Sling 1887?  A couple of years ago I tried to order one and they would not even attempt to make one as they could not get the "proper" brass fittings.  I may have to order one for my krag and replace the substandard but overall fairly close replica on it currently
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on April 06, 2015, 05:21:01 pm
Rattle Snake Jack,   Are the bandoleers worn by the Boers, British Issue they "found",  The ones that have 5rd clips in them?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: River City John on April 06, 2015, 10:53:36 pm
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/RiverCityJohn/BandolierDocumentation_zpsgtwbp1ry.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/RiverCityJohn/media/BandolierDocumentation_zpsgtwbp1ry.jpg.html)

Bandoliers were manufactured for the Boers, also.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on April 07, 2015, 03:57:13 pm
Is there a current supplier for the Bandoleers?
I can order a Mills belt for the Krag,   But I need something for the Mausers and my Rolling block.
My unmarked civil war cartridge box and a Musset bag could be used for loose cartridges,  but a Bando would look better.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on April 07, 2015, 04:46:46 pm
If you look in places like Sportsmans Guide, or search ammo pouch on ebay, you can find lots of east European mauser pouchs.  4 brown ones lined up on a wide leather belt is a decent approximation of the Spanish colonial rig of the 1890s.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on April 07, 2015, 04:49:11 pm
These, in fact:  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/4-used-serbian-military-surplus-leather-mag-pouches?a=1744064
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on April 07, 2015, 04:53:21 pm
As seen here:  http://www.agmohio.com/LR1896equipment.htm
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: River City John on April 07, 2015, 05:22:45 pm
As luck would have it, I am bringing a 1903 Pattern Martin leather bandoleer as a door prize. Manufactured for IMA, it is no longer offered on their website.

International Military Antiques:
http://www.ima-usa.com/salesperson/result/?q=bandoleer&Trigger=ac


And Liberty Tree is a wonderful source for items:
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/ltc-default.asp


RCJ
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on April 07, 2015, 05:35:59 pm
The British P1903 Bandolier is carried by What Price Glory.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: River City John on April 07, 2015, 05:39:33 pm
http://onlinemilitaria.net/products/4281-UK-1903-Pattern-Leather-Cavalry-9-Pocket-Bandolier/

$98.00, but these people are a joy to work with, and their quality is top drawer.


RCJ
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on April 07, 2015, 05:45:27 pm
I'm amazed by how reasonable their prices are.  Ninety-eight dollars may sound like a lot at first, but my local leatherworker said he probably couldn't even buy the leather and hardware for that, let alone build it.  John's right, their stuff is nice.  I'd have to say they're just about the go-to company for our time period.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on April 18, 2015, 08:01:06 pm
Just an FYI:  I've been loading Lees 312-155 Gas check bullet in my sons 1893 Spanish Mauser Carbine .308 conversion, as it will not feed RNs at all!  This is a 155 grain Spitzer designed originally for the 7.62x39.  It is a rather long nosed bullet, I took a caliper to it and the nose above the crimp groove is .020 shorter than my Lee 200 RN.  HMMMM.

So I loaded a few in my Krag cases.  Threw them into both my Krags, and they feed just fine.  Might even be a tad slicker than my 200 RNs.  Out at the farm they shot under 3" at 100 yards, sights still set at 4.  2 grooves, I still get a greasy muzzle on the infantry rifle. All sized to .311 with aluminum gas checks.

This would save me some lead money, and make loading for my son and I easier with only one bullet to cast.  Donnie wants to shoot his Isapore SMLE in the EEM, and the Spanish Carbine in the main match.  Reason being these are HIS guns, not mine!

But here's a circa 150 grain Spitzer that feeds and shoots just fine in a Krag.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on April 18, 2015, 09:56:19 pm
Drydock, is that the "soup can" bullet, or regular lube grooves? I have the tumble lube one, bought it hoping to use it in my various .31 cal guns, loaded up a batch in .303, no luck-bullets tumbled in all three .303s I have, No1, No4 and P-14. Haven't yet tried them in anything else I have.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on April 18, 2015, 10:01:40 pm
Its the regular lube groove one, C312-155-2R.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on May 29, 2015, 10:24:06 pm
Sure wish I would have read this thread long ago about 4350 and the krag, but have managed to get varget loads to work just fine.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Tascosa Joe on September 30, 2015, 08:29:02 pm
Missouri bullet company has a .309 @ 238 gr.  It is a really long round nose bullet.  Do any of y'all with more experience think this would work for the Krag?  The bullet is manufactured for the 300 AAC or Blackout.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on September 30, 2015, 09:28:35 pm
It may work if your bore is tight enough, mine prefers .310.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Charles Isaac on October 14, 2015, 09:41:05 pm



   This beater "most of a" Krag just got dropped off by the big brown truck and I got almost all of the parts it needs.  Another one of those "If it's gonna sell that cheap, I'll buy the dam thing!"



  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=508619479 



    This one has the highest serial number I've personally seen. Bore was all leaded up but looks like it might shoot OK. I'll try it out with some GAF loads first-only gonna have a couple hundred in this one! :D




Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on October 14, 2015, 10:04:27 pm
Good to see you bringing that one back to life, Charles!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Charles Isaac on October 14, 2015, 11:12:39 pm



   Yes Sir, I need to get a "Save The Krags" T-shirt! :D



Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Dutch Al on March 25, 2016, 07:11:26 am
I have been loading my 30-40 Krag ammo to an overall length of 3.08.  I am using 210 grain round nose bullets, so loading with the bullets seated that far out is no problem.  With the 3.08 overall length, its darn near impossible to get a rim lock.  I checked both my Krags, and found the 3.08 length passes through the action just fine.  I hope you find this information useful.  Good luck.

Regards

Dutch Al
Title: Re: The Care and Feeding of the Krag Jorgenson
Post by: Tascosa Joe on January 13, 2017, 02:20:36 pm
One of the most important things we've learned is to make certain the OCL is right. If you use too short a bullet the cartridge won't feed. Scruffy Skippy makes a good 220 gr RN lead bullet. 402-276-1391
Is Scruffy Skippy still making these bullets?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on January 13, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
Yes
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Tascosa Joe on January 27, 2017, 11:08:35 am
Has anyone tried the Missouri Bullet Company 215 gr grooveless coated bullet in the Krag?  This tread ought to be a sticky, lots of good info.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on January 27, 2017, 12:16:14 pm
This tread ought to be a sticky, lots of good info.
...And so it shall be.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on January 27, 2017, 06:41:31 pm


   This beater "most of a" Krag just got dropped off by the big brown truck and I got almost all of the parts it needs.  Another one of those "If it's gonna sell that cheap, I'll buy the dam thing!"



  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=508619479 

Glad to see you've opened up a "Krag Rescue Center"!  You should start an ad campaign "For only $1.00 a day you can make sure an abused Krag is restored and placed in a caring home............."

    This one has the highest serial number I've personally seen. Bore was all leaded up but looks like it might shoot OK. I'll try it out with some GAF loads first-only gonna have a couple hundred in this one! :D





Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Tascosa Joe on February 23, 2017, 12:46:37 pm
New question.  I bought some Speer 220 gr round nose bullets because they were on sale.  I had to dig out my 32-20 case mouth belling die IOT get the bullets to start.  Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on February 23, 2017, 01:16:00 pm
 ???

I've got an old set of Lyman dies that I got off e-bay. I've been using those same Speer bullets for hunting and the long range match. I've never had any issue seating bullets.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on February 23, 2017, 05:32:36 pm
I use Lee dies and have never had an issue.  I also use the Lyman "M" die for both cast and jacketed bullets.  It opens the mouth of the case just enough for the bullet base to enter the mouth.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on March 26, 2017, 12:27:03 pm
I remember (dangerous) that someone had mentioned reworking .303 Brit to 30-40 Krag?  Alo which Rolling Block would be easier to covert to 30-40 or .303?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on March 26, 2017, 12:51:22 pm
The reworking is pretty simple, just run the .303 brass through a 30-40F/L sizing die, and there you have it, a "30-40" case, but with a slightly short neck. As for converting rolling blocks-I dunno. Maybe best would be one of the later models1902 I think? that was chambered for 7mm Mauser, instead of one originally made during the BP era.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on April 05, 2017, 01:15:52 pm
What is the normal length of a carbine barrel?  Krag 22, but for a rolling block or Martini henry?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on May 03, 2017, 11:43:41 pm
My Krag carbine was cut down for a recoil pad.....anyone have a krag stock with the toe area intact for sale?   Are there any other stock that could be modifed to fit?  I have access to mauser stocks.
 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Grenadier on May 04, 2017, 07:29:12 am
Boyds sells a carbine stock for a decent price.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on May 05, 2017, 03:59:06 pm
Boyd's no longer makes Krag stocks according to the order lady on the phone.  They used to but stopped last year.
If I had a good picture of a regular Krag stock, I could compare it to one of the other stocks I have and maybe splice on a new toe section.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 05, 2017, 04:46:57 pm
http://www.shop.macongunstocks.com/US-Krag-Jorgenson-30-40-Carbine-Example-Walnut-Stock-US-Krag-Jorgenson-Stock.htm
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 05, 2017, 04:47:58 pm
http://www.dunlapwoodcrafts.com/MilitaryStocks.php
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 05, 2017, 04:49:36 pm
http://www.gun-parts.com/militarystocks/
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 05, 2017, 04:53:18 pm
http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=124

S&S has forends and handguards to complete the look if needed.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 05, 2017, 05:00:17 pm
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XKrag+butt.TRS0&_nkw=krag+buttplate&_sacat=0

Or you can get a Krag buttplate and shape a piece of wood to fit between it and the existing stock!  Get you a custom length of pull that way.  Call it an "arsenal repair".
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: mehavey on May 05, 2017, 10:31:25 pm
Lead, Unique, Krag....

(http://i63.tinypic.com/29l1so0.jpg)

Peas, carrots, taters....



(and the Lyman 311284 are the Grits)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: ira scott on May 06, 2017, 08:12:13 pm
Very nice! I'm definitely going to have to try that load. I purchased that mold from Ned's advice, and think I can come up with some Unique. I have NEVER had that good of results,(can't be the shooter, can it?)
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on August 26, 2017, 07:30:20 pm
Hi

I have a Krag question, if this should be its own thread, feel free.

I'd like to get a Krag, either a rifle or Carbine.  I'd like to get a book on the Krag, but with a specific purpose.  I need a book that shows enough detail to be sure I get a FULL rifle or a FULL Carbine and not something that will cost me a lot to bring back to its original state.  Which book would be best for that purpose.  I need to know before the Wannemaker Tulsa Gun show in November 2017.  It's my understanding that the CMP will rebarrell Krags, but for a price. 

Thanks

Mike
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on August 26, 2017, 07:36:46 pm
https://www.buymilsurp.com/the-american-krag-rifle-and-carbine-2nd-edition-revised-p-5397.html

Criterion makes the Barrels, they come indexed, most any gunsmith can screw them in.  Get them from CMP or from the manufacturer.  CMP installation is seriously backlogged from what I hear.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on August 26, 2017, 08:41:17 pm
Yep, That's The best book i know of
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 09, 2017, 01:32:41 pm
Hi Y'all

Headed off to Tulsa Wannemacher show this weekend.  My current nefarious plan is to purchase the first whole 30-40 Krag that has a decent looking barrel.  My plan includes wanting to find a carbine, but as I don't yet own SAM / Philippine Insurrection uniforms, I don't care so much.  Not like I already have a horse to feed.  If memory serves, Carbines are in "short" supply and I don't really think I want a sporterized model.

I have two of the suggested books and have been reading a little.  I"ll be taking both with me.  I'd have shopped gun broker more, but none of the entries had pictures of the bore.

Later
 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on November 09, 2017, 04:50:58 pm
Good luck!  Take a pull thru and some Ballistol.  A lot of bad looking bores are just dirty!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 09, 2017, 05:45:24 pm
Ll see about getting a 30 cal pull through after I get off the range.
Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 12, 2017, 01:31:36 pm
Hi

I haven't had time for pictures yet, but I managed to purchase a decent, reasonably correct Krag Carbine from 1896 at the Tulsa Gun Show.  The sights are Rifle sights, but I now ALSO own a correct Oiler and cleaning rod for the butt stock.  When I picked it up, it had three of the middle pieces of a Krag cleaning rod.  I also have a replacement hopper spring and an ejector.  Larry Brown out of Indiana is a great Krag guy.  The bore has rifling but it's shallow.  I'm ordering brass, and cleaning supplies for it.  This is my FIRST .30 caliber so I have no brushes, jags etc.

So, Krag Carbine = Philippine Insurrection for Expansion Era right or Spanish American War for Victorian era match right?

More later.


Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on November 12, 2017, 01:59:15 pm
Yep, Krag works for everything.  Doubt the rifling is "shallow" , might be a lot of copper fouling in there.   Took me a long time to get down to steel in my 1st Krag rifle.  Get some of that foam cleaner, works great.  And a lot of .303 brushes!  I look forward to pictures!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 12, 2017, 11:40:47 pm
Hi again

Full length size or neck size the 30-40 Krag?  I neck size on the other bottle neck cartridge bolt action rifles I own.  I don't own full-length sizing dies for those.

I plan on ordering Oregon Trail 200 grain bullets.  I"m not sure on the powder yet, but I have SOME Trail Boss and loads of 4350.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on November 13, 2017, 03:38:13 am
I neck size mine.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on November 13, 2017, 06:44:35 am
Hornady now makes a really easy to use neck sizing die that's less than thirty bucks.  Works great!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Baltimore Ed on November 13, 2017, 11:03:23 am
I use a .308 sizer die. I'm thinking that I robbed my .310 expander ball from my 7.62x39 die set. Works fine.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 19, 2017, 12:06:58 am
Hi

I finished reading Foyer's "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine."  I have an 1898 Model built in June 1898.  It lacks a cut out in the stock for the saddle ring, which seems to imply that it was re-furbished in 1902.  It also has an either type 2 or 3 1898 rear sight.  There was very little copper in the bore, but a lot of burnt powder, the rifling seems to be much more distinct after a little cleaning. 

It was suggested that I clean the stock with Hoppe's, it is greasy.  Good idea or not?  How do I find out if this sucker saw any action or not?

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on November 19, 2017, 07:09:18 am
http://springfieldresearchservice.com/ (http://springfieldresearchservice.com/)

I full length size my brass but that doesn't mean that's necessary the right way to do it.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on November 19, 2017, 07:15:10 pm
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Midwayusa+cleaning+the+rolling+block+video&view=detail&mid=04373E51EA0FE59101B304373E51EA0FE59101B3&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 19, 2017, 07:47:40 pm
I noted that Larry Potterfield mentions that what he was doing won't mess up the collector value of the Krag.  I also noted that the CMP offers re-parkerizing or re-bluing of the Krags.  That's not a good idea right?

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on November 19, 2017, 08:02:49 pm
I'm currently building a Krag out of Ebay parts and a Criterion barrel.  That would be a candidate for rebluing.  As would a cut down or sporterized rifle.  If you have an intact Krag, a reblue will affect value negatively.

A parkerized Krag?  *shudder*
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 19, 2017, 09:16:28 pm
Thanks Drydock, according to the guy at the Tulsa Show (Krag fixer and parts guy), I have a pretty much intact Krag Carbine.  I hope it shoots as good as it looks.  It has been re-furbished, but in 1902, so no big deal there.

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 01, 2017, 10:53:22 pm
Hi

I've found .30-40 Krag Brass in Hornady, Remington, and Grafs.  Midway is out of Remington, and Hornady is pretty high.  Is there any reason to get one over the other?  I'm considering using one head stamp for lead and one for Jacketed for consistency.

Later

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 17, 2017, 11:13:02 pm
Hi

I bought a box of 32 caliber round ball to swag the barrel on the Krag to see what I should be getting.  I didn't do this right somehow.  I came up with a bore of .299, which is almost certainly mis-measured.  I think I need a fatter ball to start with.  I have .38 Special lead cast bullets, don't know how hard they are.  Is using the .38's (.357) lead bullets to check the bore on a .30-40 Krag a stupid idea or a REALLY stupid idea?

Other better ideas?  Midway DOES sell 0.315 round ball, but I don't see that making a difference. 

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on December 18, 2017, 07:28:51 am
I use .31 caliber balls to measure .30 caliber bores, and it's always worked fine.  Are you sure you measured the grooves?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 18, 2017, 09:22:53 am
I use .31 caliber balls to measure .30 caliber bores, and it's always worked fine.  Are you sure you measured the grooves?

I didn't really end up with grooves.  I can  see the rifling a the muzzle, but not on the round ball.  I can't see a bulge in the  barrel, but it got easier to push in the middle.  I need to clean more also.  The bore is still got powder residue, but no copper and only a little lead.  The balls are .310.

I think I'll try putting a smashed ball down first and another one after it.  I'm  not getting any lead in the groves.

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on December 18, 2017, 02:42:45 pm
Clean clean clean and clean some more.  Sounds to me like you have a tight spot somewhere, indicating a buildup of multiple layers of fouling, this is not uncommon, and usually found toward the breech end of the barrel.  This can be a long process with old military rifles.  Now you  have a pleasant task to see you thru the dark winter nights . . .
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on December 18, 2017, 03:39:50 pm
Yep, you might try plugging the breech end and pouring the bore full of Kroil or some sort of Hoppes No. 9 and letting it soak for a few days.  It will come clean eventually!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on December 18, 2017, 03:59:21 pm
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/272019/break-free-foaming-bore-cleaning-solvent-3-oz-aerosol

A barrel can look nice and shiny, and still have a surprising amount of fouling!
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on December 18, 2017, 05:21:00 pm
Sure can!  It can take a while to get it out, but remember it took a hundred years to get it there, too. 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 29, 2017, 09:58:50 pm
Hi

I spent the day putting some automotive cleaner called Sea Foam down the barrel.  I now have what appears to be rifling.  I've brushed the heck out of the barrel, whenever I quit brushing and run a patch, it comes out black.  But after running lead cleaner on the patches it eventually comes out clean.  Then when I brush again, I get another totally black patch.  I've quit for the night and the whole apartment smells funny, but the Sea Foam stuff doesn't have ammonia at least. 

I think I'll take a break and re-size the new Hornady brass I have. 

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 30, 2017, 12:34:33 am
Hi again

O.K. I fibbed, no sizing the new brass.  I did manage to get the new magazine spring and the ejector installed.  I need to take it completely apart and clean it up.  The Bolt appears to be as dirty as the barrel was.  This isn't a difficult rifle to work on, but things like the magazine aren't exactly intuitive.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 31, 2017, 02:41:18 pm
Hi
I took the bolt apart and got it put back together.  When the bolt is taken apart, the Safety lever moves 180 degrees.  When I get everything back in the bolt it only rotates 90 degrees.  I can't find any broken parts, dirt or anything to block the movement.

HELP!!!

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on December 31, 2017, 03:24:09 pm
https://www.amazon.com/American-Rifle-Carbine-Collectors-Only®/dp/1882391314
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on January 01, 2018, 01:36:17 am
Hi

I couldn't find the exact answer in the book, but Hickock45 has two videos with the Krag and his only rotates about 90 degrees. 

Happy New Year   ;D
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on January 01, 2018, 10:07:24 am
It should rotate 180.  My suggestion would be to strip the bolt per instructions, then reassemble.  Hickok only chose to rotate his 90, as it is easier to flip off from that position.  I carry mine on the farm the same way.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on January 01, 2018, 12:06:10 pm
It should rotate 180.  My suggestion would be to strip the bolt per instructions, then reassemble.  Hickok only chose to rotate his 90, as it is easier to flip off from that position.  I carry mine on the farm the same way.

Thanks

Does moving the safety from Side to Side involve pushing it in or out at all?  I cleaned what crud there was in the safety out and it moves from side to side with not in the bolt sleeve.  I don't want to force it too much.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on January 01, 2018, 12:16:06 pm
No, it should only rotate.  It may move in and out a little as it cams on the striker sleeve, but that's it.  Sometimes the camming surface can be deformed/burred, preventing rotation.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on January 03, 2018, 09:54:32 pm
I can't cast the Bullets for my Krag.  Has anyone used the Oregon Trail Bullets in 30 cal? Which size?    I was thinking of the 180 to 220 gn. Thanks.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on January 03, 2018, 10:48:20 pm
It should rotate 180.  My suggestion would be to strip the bolt per instructions, then reassemble.  Hickok only chose to rotate his 90, as it is easier to flip off from that position.  I carry mine on the farm the same way.

Been busy, but I did look at the bolt again and I have an idea what the problem is.  The Safety itself is clean because I could move it back and forth through 180 degrees when it wasn't attached to the bolt, that would mean that the bolt itself is the dirty part.  I hope to get back at it.

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on January 04, 2018, 06:11:38 am
I can't cast the Bullets for my Krag.  Has anyone used the Oregon Trail Bullets in 30 cal? Which size?    I was thinking of the 180 to 220 gn. Thanks.
They should be fine, as long as the diameter fits your bore. My Krag likes .310, doesn't like .308 or .309.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 04, 2018, 07:15:49 am
My Krags also shoot .310, .308 do not work.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on January 04, 2018, 09:25:17 am
I can't cast the Bullets for my Krag.  Has anyone used the Oregon Trail Bullets in 30 cal? Which size?    I was thinking of the 180 to 220 gn. Thanks.
I use the 220gr from High Plains Shooter Supply for steel targets and the 220 gr RN from Hornady or Sierra for Long Range
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on January 20, 2018, 11:47:15 am
Hi

I'm not quite there yet on the Hornady's but is there any reason to crimp?  I didn't use the powder die to stretch out the case before I loaded it?  I've never crimped jacketed bullets on a bolt action.

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on January 20, 2018, 02:47:19 pm
As long as you didn't "bell" the case mouth as you would for cast bullets, then you probably don't need to crimp. I don't crimp rifle most ammo, other than if it's for a tube magazine rifle like 30-30.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on January 20, 2018, 03:48:47 pm
I've always used the Lee factory crimp die on both jacketed and cast bullets in my Krag "just because".  You can probably do without it if you have good neck tension.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on January 20, 2018, 05:54:17 pm
Thanks

I'll shoot a few with a full magazine and see if they get bopped on the head and set back or not.  I made 7 too many of the 40 grain IMR4350 loads.  The worst one took 7 raps on the Lyman bullet puller, the easiest took 3. 

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on January 22, 2018, 06:18:28 am
I don't crimp my bottlenecks, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on February 25, 2018, 09:32:07 pm
Hi

The PLAN was to go out and do some load working today, but it was windy.  Anyway, I think I worked out the pedigree on my Carbine.  This is an 1896 Krag Carbine.  The receiver is labeled “1896 SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 35xxx.  This serial number indicates that it is a Carbine made during June of 1896.  The Table on Serial numbers also states that Carbines in that range may have been used for ammunition testing.  It looks just like the pictures in Joe Poyer’s book, but it doesn’t have a Saddle Ring.  This could be because the carbine was built to use in ammunition testing, so they didn’t put on the Saddle Ring.  This carbine has a Type 2 Barrel Band.  The cartouche is JSA 1896 and is shaped like the picture in the book.  There is a U and a P (for Proof) behind the trigger guard.  The toe of the stock is rounded off as per this era of Krag.  The wrist of the stock from side to side is 1.520 inches, but it should have been either 1.8 inches or 1.685 inches.  I’m probably measuring the wrong place.  The book says that the1896 Carbines were refurbished and got re-stocked in 1900.  It appears that this carbine was not restocked (JSA 1896) but did have an 1896 rear rifle sight added instead of the carbine sight.  The base is calibrated from 300-600 yards and the leaf is calibrated from 700 to 1800 yards.  The grind marks show that it is a Type 1 or 2 rear sight.  This was just under $1000 out the door including a new Extractor, magazine spring, and cleaning rod from a second vendor.

The only current fault I have with it is the Safety.  It WORKS, but it doesn't go all of the way over from Left to Right.  The Safety goes from 0 to about 95 or 100 degrees and stops.  I had it apart and cleaned EVERYTHING again, but must have missed something.  The safety is ON at about 45-60 degrees somewhere.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: TomcatPC on April 16, 2018, 08:41:36 pm
Great!  After seeing this, I now want to find a Krag!  Most people in my generation are into the AR-15 craze and here I am wanting rifles from the turn of the 20th Century! 
No, seriously a Krag has been on my wanted list for a while now.  Maybe not the top one of the list right now, but more interest is growing.
Anyway, new here and just wanted to comment.
Mark
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Baltimore Ed on April 17, 2018, 06:47:48 am
My 1899 Constabulary/school rifle is one of my favorites. The bayonet's dated 1899 too.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on April 17, 2018, 09:28:27 am
Great!  After seeing this, I now want to find a Krag!  Most people in my generation are into the AR-15 craze and here I am wanting rifles from the turn of the 20th Century! 
No, seriously a Krag has been on my wanted list for a while now.  Maybe not the top one of the list right now, but more interest is growing.
Anyway, new here and just wanted to comment.
Mark
Welcome!

If I'd been at the auction my brother was at Saturday, I'd have one for sale. He said there was one there that was in really good shape that sold for only $250
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: TomcatPC on April 17, 2018, 09:40:12 pm
I am so far away from actually actively looking for a Krag, I have other things to take care of first.  Still need to do research and actually get to know a lot more than I do now. 
Given a choice, I think finding a Magazine Lee-Metford/Magazine Lee-Enfield would hopefully be first in line, but that is not written in stone.  But that is a long term goal as well.
I guess this might be one of those "at the right time and place" things?  Meanwhile I'll lurk about here and see what I can learn.
Mark
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on May 16, 2018, 11:29:06 pm
Hi

I went to the range today and shot my 5744 210 grain loads.  I got a LOT of Keyholes from 80% to 100% of max loads.  I have cleaned the barrel out a lot better than my original trys.  The barrel appears to be decently clean.  The barrel and the bullets are the same size (I'll check again tomorrow).  Is it LIKELY that buyng a larget diameter bullet would help this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Cowtown Scout on May 17, 2018, 09:28:06 pm
Hi

I went to the range today and shot my 5744 210 grain loads.  I got a LOT of Keyholes from 80% to 100% of max loads.  I have cleaned the barrel out a lot better than my original trys.  The barrel appears to be decently clean.  The barrel and the bullets are the same size (I'll check again tomorrow).  Is it LIKELY that buyng a larget diameter bullet would help this?

Thanks


The first lead bullets I tried in my Krag were not gas checked and they all keyholed. It was suggested that the .30 cal lead bullets would do better with gas checks. So I tried some with gas checks and no more keyhole shots. I've been using 200 grain lead with gas checks in my Krags and they have worked great. Use the same bullets in my 1903s and they work great there also.
Scout
Scout
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on May 21, 2018, 01:12:55 pm
Hi

Unfortunately, that's the same bullets I've been using.  I have a sort of decent load, but will probably miss on the tactical parts of the match.  I stlll have to work a load on the jacketed stuff.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on May 21, 2018, 04:05:38 pm
Are you loading the lead bullets for the skirmish portions of the Muster?  If so, around 13 grains of Trail Boss under a 200-220 grain gas checked bullet should work just fine.  I personally use the Lyman 220 grain bullet.  I would use jacketed bullets for the long range portion of the Muster, loaded to 2000 fps.  That load should match the sight settings.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 21, 2018, 05:54:11 pm
For long range, either the jacketed 220 grain RN Sierra or Hornady, loaded over 40 grains IMR 4350, will shoot to the sights.

For skirmish rounds, fill the case 70% with Trail Boss, under a 180-220 lead bullet, and set the sights to 4.  The bullet should be .001-.003 oversize.  I use a .311 sizer on mine.

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on May 21, 2018, 06:56:12 pm
Hi

Interesting, I tried the Trail  Boss and got crummy groups, but fewer keyholes.  I used 5744, I'll update with the load data in a while.  I found the Trail boss really annoying to load, Oklahoma has wind, even inside and them damn donuts went everywhere.

My 5744 were from 22.7 grains to 27.7 grains of powder using Hornady brass and WLR primers.  The minimum load is 18 grains.

The 26.6 grain loads made what I'm pretty sure was a one inch 4 shot group at 50 yards with a keyholed flyer a foot or so away.

Not sure what to think.  I cleaned the heck out of the Krag before I shot the 5744, but it was dirtier when I shot the Trail Boss.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Baltimore Ed on May 21, 2018, 07:09:19 pm
I tried TB and went through a rcbs green powder hopper so fast during my load development that I loaded a few without any powder. But loading a few and then shooting a few I discovered my opps. Luckily I didn't stick any bullets in the bbl.  I'd never gone through a hopper of anything that fast. It IS bulky. 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 21, 2018, 07:12:38 pm
I  have found, unless you have a tight perfect bore, with a perfect crown, that you will need gas checks to get decent groups.  My 1895 Winchester musket has such a barrel, and shoots great without the checks. (that rifle was a dumb luck acquisition all around)  All my Krags need gas checks.  With the checks however, they will make nice tight little groups.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on May 21, 2018, 08:30:07 pm
I decided years ago to use gas checks on all my rifle bullets.  For whatever reason, I could never get plain bases to shoot well.  Just seemed easier to use the checks, as it simplified everything.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on May 26, 2018, 05:32:31 pm
I use 11 grains AA2 in my Krag and 03 behind 200 or 210 grain gas checks.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Galen on May 26, 2018, 06:10:11 pm
My krag carbine shots about three inches to the right. Any ideas of how to correct?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on May 26, 2018, 06:26:42 pm
What sights do you have?
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: pony express on May 26, 2018, 08:58:04 pm
I have gotten good accuracy with my Krag with or without the gas checks, with Trailboss loads, or equivalent loads with Unique, Green Dot, etc. As long as the bullets are sized .310, or else unsized and lubed with Lee Liquid Alox, they work fine.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Major 2 on May 27, 2018, 02:56:33 am
.311  190gr. GC's  and Trailboss...here ...

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on May 28, 2018, 01:00:44 pm
Hi

I just ordered some Hunter's Supply 193 grain w/o checks in .311.  I think I should shove one down the barrel to check width again and see if it goes or not.  The .31 caliber round balls went through pretty easy. I have guess checks, but have never put then on before.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on June 04, 2018, 10:30:34 am
Hi again

I noticed something new and annoying last night.  When I put the .31 caliber ball down the barrel, it was difficult for say 5-7 inches and then dropped out.  Apparently I have a squeeze barrel of some sort.  I'm thinking I need to go ahead and call the gunsmith and the CMP for a barrel.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on June 04, 2018, 06:59:43 pm
worst that can happen is you end up with a really good shooting rifle
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on June 04, 2018, 09:19:34 pm
Yep, will call the Gunsmith at Jones tomorrow.  I may try and shoot it at the match and see what happens, but I may just load up .45/70 for the Cavalry Sharps and go with Smokeless.  I haven't had time to do the whole black powder thing yet.  I'm a bit hesitant and was going to wait until after muster, but ....

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on June 12, 2018, 10:56:35 pm
Hi

I've got a bunch of .45-70 loaded up for the Cavalry Sharps.  When I get back to Oklahoma, I'll see about getting the Krag fixed / re-barreled. My local guy doesn't want to do the Krag.  He does mainly Single Shots, 1885 Winchesters and Sharps.  He suggested a company named Shaw.  Has anybody used them?  I'm considering using the CMP to do this also.  Has anybody had the CMP work on a Krag?

Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on June 13, 2018, 10:06:13 am
CMP is way behind, and I've heard of some problems.  (guy I know out in Colorado sent one in to be blued and mounted, it came back some time later mounted but still in the white)  The guy who put together mine did a fine job at a good price, I can get his address if you want it.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on June 13, 2018, 10:15:36 am
Hi

Yep, it's worth a try. 

Mike
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on August 22, 2018, 07:25:45 pm
https://estore.thecmp.org/?cat=BAR


New link for Krag barrels. 
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on November 17, 2018, 06:27:06 pm
Hi

I called and talked to Murray in Missouri.  He said he has 3 Krags to do after hunting season.  I have the barrel from the CMP and sights from S&S Firearms for my shot out Carbine.  I also have an 1898 Rifle now.  It has 1902 sights and is missing two of the three sling mountings.  I'll order them later tonight. 

What is the best sling to buy for a Krag Rifle?

The rifle shoots pretty good for a 120 year old rifle.  A friend put two in the 10 ring at 75 yards off the bench.  I hit the paper both shots offhand from 75 yards, so I'm happy.  Packing for TGiving or I'd put in some pictures.

Later


Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Drydock on November 17, 2018, 07:50:03 pm
WPG has both the M1887 leather sling, and the M1899  Mills Web sling.  Have both, like 'em both.  (Use da link!)

The 1887 is only on their ebay site for now.

The web sling was mostly found in the phillipines.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 15, 2018, 07:59:49 pm
WPG has both the M1887 leather sling, and the M1899  Mills Web sling.  Have both, like 'em both.  (Use da link!)

The 1887 is only on their ebay site for now.

The web sling was mostly found in the phillipines.

I just received both, and a Cavalry .45/70 Belt from Jerry.  The 1887 sling seems a bit thin, but then it cost a lot less than the other one mentioned.  Should I put anything on it?

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Pitspitr on December 17, 2018, 08:31:47 am
Original Slings were pretty thin.
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on December 28, 2018, 09:27:38 pm
Well, the Krag Carbine is at Muarry Anderson's shop with a few other ones.   Pretty area.  Hope to use it at the Muster.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on March 08, 2019, 09:56:47 am
WPG has both the M1887 leather sling, and the M1899  Mills Web sling.  Have both, like 'em both.  (Use da link!)

The 1887 is only on their ebay site for now.

The web sling was mostly found in the Philippines.

Hi

I remember seeing that people hated the web sling because it curled up.  The one I got is authentic the connections cause the web part to curl up a little.

Later
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: 1961MJS on June 22, 2019, 06:25:04 pm
Hi again

With respect to the care and feeding of the Krag.  My 1902 rifle sight was difficult to use, so I soaked it for a few hours in Kroil.  Now it turns a little easier, but with pliers.  Did fairly well at the range, but the sights are difficult to see at longer ranges.

See y'all in a few days.

Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on August 29, 2019, 09:43:27 pm
Has anyone used one of the Krag receivers being sold by SARCO?   The price is right for me, but rest of the parts are too dear for a retirees budget. Thanks
Title: Re: Care and feeding of the Krag
Post by: Niederlander on August 30, 2019, 05:49:12 am
Didn't know they had those.  From the looks they should be fine.  Probably the best source for the other parts is find a rifle that's had the receiver drilled and tapped.  Otherwise, you can just about go broke buying parts.