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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Drydock on February 16, 2015, 10:12:27 pm

Title: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on February 16, 2015, 10:12:27 pm
 A repost for new folks.

Got a Trapdoor or a Krag, and want a uniform to go with it?  The 1884 Brown Canvas Fatigue uniform is an easy way to get into the ranks, and comfortable enough, even in hot weather, that I use it out on the farm for brush busting and armidillo hunting.

http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/uniforms/survey_uwa.pdf   Page 35

Introduced in 1884 as a barracks duty/stable cleaning outfit, it was soon found so comfortable, particularly in the southwest, that troops wore it in the field, in essence becoming the first really practical battle utility uniform.  Officers quickly adapted it for their own use.  Highly popular both in Cuba and the Phillipines, though not often seen in pictures, as troops preferred to be illustrated in their more traditional "Blues".  This uniform was standard issue to all enlisted ranks from 1885 to 1911.  (Officers bought them from    the post Quartermaster)  Trapdoors to 03s were carried by folks dressed in these.

-Basics-

Shirt: M1883 pull over flannel   http://www.riverjunction.com/Shirt--Indian-Wars-Military-Shirt--Cotton-Flannel--Heirloom-Brand--Navy-Blue_p_42.html     THis is a cotton flannel, River Junction also markets a wool flannel at a third more.  The wool is also a high quality shirt, and comfortable, but I'm cheap.  I have seen both 3 and 4 button plackets in various pictures, depending on the contractor. 1899 and later troopers began sewing rank on the sleeves, and officers began pinning rank devices to the collar.  Don't do it if you're carrying a trapdoor!

Trousers:  1884 Cotton Duck   http://www.riverjunction.com/Trousers--Suspender-Pants-Gold-Rush-Jeans--Heirloom-Brand_p_81.html    As accurate as any custom pants I've seen.  If you want to get fancy you can sew on some seam stripes.  

Hat:  1883 drab, Bracher/star/snowflake vent   http://www.riverjunction.com/Wadell-Hat-Campaign-hat--Wool_p_109.html     Down at the bottom you can  pick the vent you want.

Shoes.  Black, leather, lace up.  Ankle high.  You've got black shoes with laces, you're fine.

Thats the basic field uniform.  You want to get fancier?

Tunic: http://www.quartermastershop.com/1872_and_on_us_enlisted/m-1884_enl_canvas_bls.html#.UfxO_tJaySo    The best, worth the money.  Sew on some stripes if you want to be a noncom.  Pin on some shoulder straps if your one of them occifers.  This is a field uniform,  save all the braid and facings for the ballroom.

Leggings:  These are nice to have, keeps out the dust and bugs.   http://www.whatpriceglory.com/shopexd.asp?id=5119&bc=no     THe only difference between these and the ones adopted in the late 1880s is that the older pattern used a leather strap.  Some cut off the web strap and rivet on a leather one.  But I'm not gonna look under your shoes to check.

Some of this stuff can be found on other sites.  Wild West Mercantile has brown duck clothing, prices vary.  I've picked up two pairs of Trousers off trade tables at various shoots, 20 bucks.  Any old brown cowboy hat of moderate brim and crown works fine.  Leggings can be found at Army suplus stores for a few dollars, though you will look long for ones big enough for modern legs.  You might have a long sleeve blue pullover hanging in a closet somewhere, and Carhart makes a lot of brown canvas jackets and pants that can be adapted.  I've seen a lot of those in 2nd hand stores.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on February 17, 2015, 01:29:12 pm
Here's another source for high quality reproductions:

http://www.quartermasterdepot.com/spanish-american-war-c-6.html?zenid=8fc6b491c7556204b40d1d29694add41 (http://www.quartermasterdepot.com/spanish-american-war-c-6.html?zenid=8fc6b491c7556204b40d1d29694add41)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Silver Creek Slim on February 17, 2015, 07:33:31 pm
Trapdoor. Check
Tan duck pants. Check
Dark brown hat. How does one lighten dark brown to tan?
Faded OD leggings. They were my grandfather's from WWII.
I don't think my black wing-tips will work.  :( Have to see what Goodwill has for shoes.

Slim
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on February 17, 2015, 07:41:10 pm
Just say its dirty, Slim, we'll believe you.  Pass the Apple pie.

Just a note CPL:  You do not have to have a uniform to shoot the main match.  (Just don't show up in a ball cap and sneakers!)  If you need the money for the rifle, get the rifle first.  Clothes are easy to do anytime, especially this uniform. 

Let us know how it goes.  Sporterized Krags are often lower priced, and can be remilitarized to Carbine spec fairly easily.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Bat 2919 on February 17, 2015, 09:37:46 pm
Black Stacy Adams Madison high top shoes/boots. 

http://www.riverjunction.com/Boots--Mens-Hi-Top-Dress-Shoe--Leather_p_98.html

You can find them new from several sources or haunt e-bay

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=stacy+adams+madison&_sop=15&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xstacy+adams+black+madison.TRS1&_nkw=stacy+adams+black+madison&_sacat=0
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on February 18, 2015, 04:55:41 am
Mine came off e-bay. I think I gave less then $25
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on February 18, 2015, 06:31:03 am
I've gotten two pairs from e-Bay.  I don't think I paid over twenty bucks for either pair.  I keep hoping for a brown pair.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on May 22, 2015, 01:42:01 pm
Add What Price Glory as a source for the everything you'll need uniformwise except the shoes.

http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopaff.asp?affid=1576 (http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopaff.asp?affid=1576)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on May 25, 2015, 05:40:19 pm
What do you think of the River Junction trading co shirts?  Specifically http://www.riverjunction.com/Shirt--Indian-Wars-Military--Wool--Heirloom-Brand--Navy-Blue_p_43.html

I have also purchased their cotton twill rough rider shirt.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on May 25, 2015, 05:44:37 pm
I have always been very impressed with River Junction's quality.  I've got stuff I bought from them twenty-five or thirty years ago, and it still looks great.  Everything seems to fit just a bit tighter now, but I don't think I can blame River Junction for that!
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on May 25, 2015, 05:50:06 pm
I have one, it is excellent.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on May 25, 2015, 06:35:27 pm
Gen'l after 25 or 30 years most shirts have a tendency to shrink. All of mine have.  I would blame the shirt but not necessarily RJTC.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: pony express on May 25, 2015, 10:17:49 pm
I have one too, no complaints.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on May 26, 2015, 06:12:30 am
I haven't handled and original so I can't speak to historical accuracy, but I will say that the quality of materials and workmanship is way above average.

Oh and all my uniforms seem to have shrunk dramatically in the closet the last few years.  :P
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Silver Creek Slim on May 30, 2015, 08:15:17 am
Trapdoor. Check
Tan duck pants. Check
Dark brown hat. How does one lighten dark brown to tan?
Faded OD leggings. They were my grandfather's from WWII.
I don't think my black wing-tips will work.  :( Have to see what Goodwill has for shoes.

Slim

Now that I have a Krag coming, I need to work more on the uniform.  ;)

Slim
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on May 30, 2015, 08:55:42 am
Now that I have a Krag coming, I need to work more on the uniform.  ;)

Slim
Check e-Bay for Stacy Adams plain black high top shoes with the cap toes.  They usually go pretty reasonably used. You can generally find khaki leggings pretty cheap, too.  You can still find the white Navy version new, unused shape and dye them.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Silver Creek Slim on June 02, 2015, 08:09:55 pm
I have a pair of Stacy Adams coming from Evansville, IN for $45 including shipping. I could have bought a pair for $20 but they were in rough shape.

Slim
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Silver Creek Slim on June 02, 2015, 09:26:51 pm
Hat:  1883 drab, Bracher/star/snowflake vent   http://www.riverjunction.com/Wadell-Hat-Campaign-hat--Wool_p_109.html     Down at the bottom you can  pick the vent you want.
What color is drab?

Slim
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on June 02, 2015, 09:39:08 pm
The tan, or light brown.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Silver Creek Slim on June 02, 2015, 09:57:13 pm
The tan, or light brown.
Thanks. I'm looking on ebay right now. My silverbelly fur felt Montana peak has a crack in the crown from handling, so I was thinking about a replacement anyway.  ;)

Slim
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on June 03, 2015, 06:12:31 am
Thanks. I'm looking on ebay right now. My silverbelly fur felt Montana peak has a crack in the crown from handling, so I was thinking about a replacement anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indian-Wars-or-Spanish-American-War-or-Confederate-Cavalry-Campaign-Hat-7-3-8-/281710293031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41973df027 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indian-Wars-or-Spanish-American-War-or-Confederate-Cavalry-Campaign-Hat-7-3-8-/281710293031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41973df027)

http://www.riverjunction.com/Mens-Hat--Wadell-Hat-Body-Wool-Felt--5-12-crown-3-14-brim-with-stitching-around-brim_p_109.html (http://www.riverjunction.com/Mens-Hat--Wadell-Hat-Body-Wool-Felt--5-12-crown-3-14-brim-with-stitching-around-brim_p_109.html)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Jake C on July 14, 2015, 09:08:50 pm
On the topic of boots, could I substitute brown for black? I need a good pair of boots for my wedding, and if I can kill two birds with one stone...
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on July 15, 2015, 08:21:38 am
Dark brown would be fine to shoot in.  But really, I'd get a nice pair of brown ones, then find some black shoes at a thrift store, or ebay.  You want something that can get scuffed and beat up.  I use an old set of USN Boondockers I picked up for $20, with gel insoles.

I suspect you're thinking of stovepipe/cowboy boots.  But by this time the Army had pretty much quit issuing those, finding ankle boots/shoes and Leggings cheaper/more comfortable/easier to maintain.  You may already have a set of black leather shoes in your closet that would work just fine.

Just an example:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Johnston-Murphy-XC4-Ashmont-Black-Leather-Ankle-Boot-Mens-11-M-20-6295-165-/151732138388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2353f0b194
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Jake C on July 15, 2015, 09:30:49 am
Actually, I was thinking those River Junction boots that got posted earlier. But the eBay route looks like it'll be a good one. Thanks for the idea!
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: ColonelFlashman on July 30, 2015, 04:27:35 pm
The problem w/ this is the fact that the Fatigue Uniform was Worn of the Top of ones Regulation Uniform of the Day while performing Fatigue Duty, for Enlisted Personnel, so that one would not get ones Uniform Dirty.
So one Can Not wear the Fatigue Uniform unless it is Worn over one Regulation Uniform while one is performing Fatigue Duty. For Cavalry Troopers, that would be Mucking Out Stalls, Grooming Horses, Cleaning Horse Furniture, etc., which means one would Not be Under Arms.
The shops that have this particular Uniform For sale have Not bothered to read Uniform Regulation Manual. So are Selling this Uniform as something it was never meant to be worn as. They are only in it to make money & do not care one wot for the Historical aspect that is was actually meant to be used for.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on July 30, 2015, 05:44:16 pm
That was the original idea, but it's very well documented, both in words and photographs, that the troops soon wore the fatigue uniform in the field.  They also wore quite a few civilian clothes in the field to save their uniforms for garrison wear.  Field duty in the west seemed to be a lot harder on uniforms (especially the desert) than field duty in the east was.

Drydock and Pitsptr will be of more help on this, but I believe the 1884 uniform WAS meant to be worn as a field uniform.  As usual, the Army was trying to catch up with what the troops were already doing in the field with the stable frock, etc.  It parallels issuing the cartridge belt after the troops were using home made ones instead of the cartridge boxes they were issued.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on July 30, 2015, 09:04:26 pm
Flashy, your a pip, good to hear from you!  By mid 1885 troops were wearing it in the field, in particular the Southwest against the Apache.  This is why Leonard Wood specified the 1884 for the 1st USV  for field wear.  There are several photos of troops in Tampa 1898 wearing them, or just the trousers with the blue campaign shirt.  I even have some Edison Video of regular troops marching to transports, wearing 1884s.  Its hard to tell, but as the trousers and tunics appear the same shade, and the leggings the same shade as well, I believe this to be the case, as the Brown duck 1884s were the only outfit that matched the leggings.  What we do not have is studio photos of this, as troops wanted to be seen in their more stylish "BLues".

I also have a photo of regulars in front of a damaged spanish fortification in the Phillipines, wearing 1884 trousers and blue shirts, rifles in hand.

In any case, we have much documented photos and footage of the 1st USV, Including Theodore Roosevelts letters to his Harvard chums, advising them to get 1884s to match the troops, as the Khakis would never be ready in time.

I believe the 1884 was the most common field uniform in Cuba in 1898, but not often pictured, as the New York Press wanted photo's of the 71st NY, a NG unit forced to the front by their Senator, wearing the blue wool uniform.  But the Regular army was not as dumb as we like to think: why wouldn't they use the most readily available  tropical weight uniform, one that every regular soldier already had in his kit?

Vol 1, Chapter 5 of Douglas McChristians "Uniforms, Arms and Equipment, 1880-1892" Spends quite a bit of time on the 1884 Fatigues, and it becomes quite clear that the men liked it, and that local officers quickly sent it into the field.  It also becomes quite clear that this was NOT intended to be worn over the existing wool uniform, but was to be worn "Similiar to the working clothes worn by the miners in the Western states and territories"  This is a quote of Quartermaster General Samuel Holabird, the originator of the 1884.

The 1884 was authorized by General order No 32, April 16 1884.  It was stipulated that the garments were to be worn on all work and fatigue details EXCEPT Stable duty, to preserve the Wool uniform.  The older White Stable Frock was still to be issued to Cavalrymen for that.  THAT would be the garment worn over the existing uniform, including the 1884!  Officers were also authorized to draw this canvas clothing as well!  Many officers interpreted the above order to include field duty as well, saving the wool for dress occasions.

Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: pony express on July 30, 2015, 10:48:18 pm
I have read somewhere on the net, a journal of a Volunteer unit from Missouri, in Cuba. After most of the fighting was over, as they were occupying the country, he mentions them doing marching drill, with all the volunteers in their blue wool, while the regulars were in tan uniforms. However, he didn't specify if it was tan 1884, or the later ones. He also mentioned being very glad to receive a "care package" from home, containing a pair of shoes, as his issue ones were falling apart and no replacements were to be had.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Dyess Scout on April 23, 2017, 09:53:05 pm
question about the 1884 fatigue uniform

What units besides the 1st USV Cavalry wore the fatigue blouse as a combat uniform?

Did the Regulars wear it or was it more of the Volunteers who wore it in the field?

I ask because I'm thinking about picking up Quatermaster Depot's 1884 pants and blouse along with a campaign hat, blue cotton shirt, and shoes from River Junction

What Price Glory also sells 1897 leggings

I did some research and found out that a unit from my home county, H Co 4th PA Volunteers, was part of the Porto Rico campaign.

My goal is to wear this uniform for cowboy action shooting
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on April 24, 2017, 07:55:24 am
You might want to consider the blue shirt from WPG instead. It's more period correct, light weight wool is actually cooler in many cases and you won't find yourself wishing you'd bought better quality later on.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on April 24, 2017, 08:19:48 am
I would suggest asking your State Historical Society if they have any pictures of Pennsylvania units during the Span-Am war.  (I'm betting they do.)  Those would give you a great idea of what uniform items to get.  Pitsptr is right, you want to get pretty good quality from the start.  It's usually not much more expensive, and you won't later wish you'd have bought better or more authentic stuff.  Wool shirts aren't hard to wash either, which was an early concern for me.  Woolite and cold water wash work well, and hang to dry.  Wool irons well, too.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on April 24, 2017, 08:48:47 am
And I forgot to mention good wool isn't itchy like we think wool is. Good wool is actually soft.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Dyess Scout on April 24, 2017, 10:35:08 am
thanks for the info, I might just go that route

I was already planning on buying the 1897 leggings from them anyway
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Galen on April 24, 2017, 12:12:51 pm
Sir
All wool is good wool......
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on April 24, 2017, 12:38:38 pm
True...but some is better than others  ::)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on April 24, 2017, 02:09:18 pm
The 1884 fatigue uniform was mostly worn by regulars in Cuba.  All regular troops were issued the 1884.  The State units did not have it in their kits, and the Volunteers did not receive it until the fighting was nearly over.  The exception being the 1st USV (Roughriders) for whom Col. Leonard Wood made sure they got it.  I have Edison footage of regular troops boarding transports in Tampa, wearing 1884 fatigues.

By 1899 it would be issued to all units in the Phillipines,  where it would see heavy use alongside the 1899 Khaki's.  It would continue in issue to all regular units until 1911, when it was replaced by a blue jean fatigue uniform.  (This new outfit was universally detested by all ranks, and thus rarely worn in the field)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Dyess Scout on April 24, 2017, 02:17:24 pm
does anybody have any experience with the 1884 fatigue trousers and blouse sold by Quartermaster Depot?

This any good or should I just go with the one made by Quartermaster Co instead?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on April 24, 2017, 04:15:57 pm
I do not; however, I have purchased a couple of pairs of trousers from them.

What I can say is that their quality (on the products I've purchased anyway) is quite good. The only warning I'd make is to place your order over the phone instead of online. I've had some difficulty getting the order right online, while it has been perfect when I made the order over the phone.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on April 29, 2017, 08:05:14 pm
Sportsmans Guide is selling a canvas field coat and cotton trousers in British Khaki.....Looks brown like the 1884 fatiques...For unde $50 for both..
Does a 45-70 belt work to hold 30-40?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on April 29, 2017, 09:05:40 pm
Yes, and was often used as such.

 As for the SG clothing, the color is close, but the details/pockets/styling would be all wrong.  That being said, SG is one of my favorite clothiers, and I have a lot of the British Khaki stuff for work and motorcycle riding!
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on July 11, 2017, 11:30:56 pm
Hi

Has anyone tried the Coon Creek West versions of the 1884 fatigues?  Quartermaster Depot is out of business for a while.

Later
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on July 11, 2017, 11:48:13 pm
Better:  http://quartermastershop.com/1872_and_on_us_enlisted/m-1884_enl_canvas_bls.html#.WWWp5YgrKM8
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on November 18, 2017, 06:08:31 pm
Hi

I ASSUME that a shirt was worn under the blouse.  Was the shirt the 1883 Wool Shirt?  Seems like that would be a bit warm under the tunic's canvas duck material.  I also have a cotton 1883 shirt as well as the wool version.

Later
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on November 19, 2017, 07:12:05 am
Hi

I ASSUME that a shirt was worn under the blouse.  Was the shirt the 1883 Wool Shirt? 
Yes
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on November 26, 2017, 07:25:24 pm
Is there anyplace to get patterns of the 1884 uniform?  A lady I know can make about any type of clothing as long as she a pattern and pictures.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Cowtown Scout on November 26, 2017, 07:47:05 pm
Hi

Has anyone tried the Coon Creek West versions of the 1884 fatigues?  Quartermaster Depot is out of business for a while.

Later


Leta B of Coon Creek made my 1884 uniform
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on November 27, 2017, 03:50:10 am
http://quartermastershop.com/1872_and_on_us_enlisted/span_am_enlisted_menu.html#.WhvfuLpFxYc   for pictures
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on November 27, 2017, 04:27:20 pm
  Is the 1884 coat based on a sack coat pattern?   I can get the sack coat pattern  from various sources.   but a pattern is needed along with pictures.  Thanks.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on November 27, 2017, 05:39:15 pm
Yes, it is a standard Sack Coat Pattern.  GIT THE MCCRISTIAN SET!  $10 from Oklahoma press!
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on November 28, 2017, 04:55:19 pm
Hi, in flipping through the 3rd Cavalry book by Randy Steffen, I noticed that they also made a white duck uniform on the sack coat pattern, with no pockets, for the tropics.

Later
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on November 28, 2017, 08:04:14 pm
THANKS,  I just ordered the set from OU press.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on January 02, 2018, 11:19:57 pm
Hi

I just received the Madison boots ($100 off Amazon new).  They fit pretty well but are slicker than snot on the bottom.  If memory serves it was recommended to resole these with a rubber sole to avoid sliding all over creation.  I think I would at least put the tap (little leather do-hicky) on the front of the sole.

add a sole or not?

Thanks

Mike
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on January 02, 2018, 11:56:56 pm
Hi again

Now I obviously need to get the Leggings from WPG.  When measuring, over the pants or not? 

Later
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on January 03, 2018, 09:06:19 am
Hi

I just received the Madison boots ($100 off Amazon new).  They fit pretty well but are slicker than snot on the bottom.  If memory serves it was recommended to resole these with a rubber sole to avoid sliding all over creation.  I think I would at least put the tap (little leather do-hicky) on the front of the sole.

add a sole or not?

Thanks

Mike
Personally, I'd have rubber soles put on them.  Grass is really slick, especially on the slopes.  I have no interest in falling down, especially when I'm holding a rifle.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on January 03, 2018, 09:07:38 am
Hi again

Now I obviously need to get the Leggings from WPG.  When measuring, over the pants or not? 

Later

Yes, over the trousers at the largest part of the calf.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 38OVI on January 03, 2018, 09:57:04 am
Check the ordering instructions for each item WPG lists, as wool and cotton items could be larger/smaller than what you normally wear.  I saw the 1916 Uniform Shirt listed, read the reviews and ordered one size larger than I wear and it fits fine, but that's just my experience.  For cartridge belts, e-mail to check sizes - replies are timely.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on January 03, 2018, 10:26:46 am
Check the ordering instructions for each item WPG lists, as wool and cotton items could be larger/smaller than what you normally wear.  I saw the 1916 Uniform Shirt listed, read the reviews and ordered one size larger than I wear and it fits fine, but that's just my experience.  For cartridge belts, e-mail to check sizes - replies are timely.
Yes, I received a pair of WWII era Summer White enlisted US navy trousers, I normally wear a 34" waist but ordered them in 36" and found them to be snug.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: smoke on April 12, 2018, 07:37:23 am
Hi

I just received the Madison boots ($100 off Amazon new).  They fit pretty well but are slicker than snot on the bottom.  If memory serves it was recommended to resole these with a rubber sole to avoid sliding all over creation.  I think I would at least put the tap (little leather do-hicky) on the front of the sole.

add a sole or not?

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

Do you have a link for those?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on April 12, 2018, 08:17:54 am
Are you looking for the Madison boots?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: smoke on April 12, 2018, 11:31:59 am
Are you looking for the Madison boots?

Kinda especially if I can buy it off of Amazon.  Easy to buy and easy to return.  Is there another place that is good?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on April 12, 2018, 11:50:40 am
https://www.amazon.com/Stacy-Adams-Mens-Madison-Black/dp/B000FQ1AU8/ref=sr_1_48?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1523551673&sr=1-48&nodeID=679255011&psd=1&keywords=stacy+adams+shoes+for+men (https://www.amazon.com/Stacy-Adams-Mens-Madison-Black/dp/B000FQ1AU8/ref=sr_1_48?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1523551673&sr=1-48&nodeID=679255011&psd=1&keywords=stacy+adams+shoes+for+men)

Here's another (though more expensive) option. They come already rubber soled.

https://thursdayboots.com/products/mens-black-captain?variant=7609602245 (https://thursdayboots.com/products/mens-black-captain?variant=7609602245)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on April 12, 2018, 02:10:14 pm
Hi

The ones referenced by Pitspitr are the ones I bought.  I'll probably be wearing them this July.

I actually wore them 15 April 2018 wandering around the range at a chili cook-off and they're very comfortable.  Definitely have the soles covered so they last a while.  

Later
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: smoke on April 14, 2018, 10:26:29 am
https://www.amazon.com/Stacy-Adams-Mens-Madison-Black/dp/B000FQ1AU8/ref=sr_1_48?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1523551673&sr=1-48&nodeID=679255011&psd=1&keywords=stacy+adams+shoes+for+men (https://www.amazon.com/Stacy-Adams-Mens-Madison-Black/dp/B000FQ1AU8/ref=sr_1_48?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1523551673&sr=1-48&nodeID=679255011&psd=1&keywords=stacy+adams+shoes+for+men)

Here's another (though more expensive) option. They come already rubber soled.

https://thursdayboots.com/products/mens-black-captain?variant=7609602245 (https://thursdayboots.com/products/mens-black-captain?variant=7609602245)

Thanks for the link...sadly the Amazon ones don't come in a wide width.   $100 and I was a buyer.  Hard to go $200 for something to wear occasionally.

Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Bat 2919 on April 14, 2018, 02:22:42 pm
Just got a sale e-mail from River Junction Trading https://www.riverjunction.com/Email-Specials_ep_54-1.html (https://www.riverjunction.com/Email-Specials_ep_54-1.html) and it looks like Jim is holding a 20% off sale, code is "Spring20".

They have the Madison Boots https://www.riverjunction.com/Boots--Mens-Hi-Top-Dress-Shoe--Leather_p_98.html (https://www.riverjunction.com/Boots--Mens-Hi-Top-Dress-Shoe--Leather_p_98.html) in four colors at $129.95 and they list them in both E and EE.  

With 20% off you should get very close to that hundred dollar mark.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Ol Gabe on April 14, 2018, 04:01:52 pm
Regarding Stacy Adams Madison shoes...
What seems like a million years ago to me, I bought a pair at Jim Boecke's store in McGregor, Iowa, River Jct. Trading. I had asked 'Big Jim/Many Hats' what brand of shoe/boot would be historically accurate for cross-over venues in the reenacting arena. He lifted up his right foot and stepped on the counter, don't know if he could do it today but may-be! Anyway, he said "These (pointing to his foot), Stacy Adams, they last forever and can be resoled without any trouble. You can wear them all day, every day and your feet will thank you!"
He then quoted me a price, close to the same listed above in the other posts, and a delivery date if size was other than what he had in stock. I tried on a pair that was larger than I thought I needed and they fit like a glove. 'Big Jim/Many Hats' was right, my feet were Happy, Happy, Happy! Needless to say they stayed 'on', I paid him, gave him a big "Thanks!" and hit the road.
All these years later, maybe 15-20, I still have them and wear for any special event I attend. With a stiff brushing to get rid of any crud, a fresh coat of KIWI polish and spit where-needed, then a good buffing with a soft cloth they look almost new, a credit to the company.
So, if you needed a vote of confidence for the shoes/boots, there ya' go!
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe
GAF
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: 1961MJS on June 04, 2018, 10:07:15 am
Hi

Well, I have the clothing set for the muster.  I now own two M1883 Blue Shirts, a pair of tan canvas pants, an M1884 coat from Coon Creek West, WPG 1897 leggings, and the Madison boots.  I have WPG haversack, canteen, and S&S Blue Infantry belt.  The Krag is NOT being cooperative.  

Later
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Good Troy on June 04, 2018, 10:16:58 am
Hi

Well, I have the clothing set for the muster.  I now own two M1883 Blue Shirts, a pair or tan canvas pants, an M1884 coat from Coon Creek West, WPG 1897 leggings, and the Madison boots.  I have WPG haversack, canteen, and S&S Blue Infantry belt.  The Krag is NOT being cooperative. 

Later


Sounds like you have the accoutrements!
I'm using my Trapdoor carbine.  I don't own a Krag, and I think the trapdoor was used in the conflict.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on June 04, 2018, 10:37:37 am
It was indeed!  Most of the state units used the Trapdoor.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on June 06, 2018, 01:08:56 pm
Will wear my 1910 for expansion match then 84 or blue trowsers and blue shirt for rest of it leaning towards krag vs trapdoor for main match
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 25, 2018, 08:57:46 am
What Price Glory offersa "Boer War Khaki Tunic" for under $60.  Many soldiers (mostly the State Volunteers) in the Phillippines were issued P1896 British Foreign Service Dress tunics to make up for the shortages in American supplies of the 1898 and 1899 uniforms.  The WPG example has a stand-and-fall collar, while photos (Brassey's, et al.) that identify the tunics as British have a short standing color that is not hooked at the throat.  It does not appear difficult to be able to modify the present collar, and replace the sewn-on epaulets with the removable ones used by the US.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: smoke on July 25, 2018, 09:04:17 am
Guns,

I never heard that before.  Do you know where the Army obtained the 1896 tunics?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on July 25, 2018, 09:50:51 am
They got them from British Service Issue in Hong Kong.  https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Sams-Little-Wars-Spanish-American/dp/1853673579  has photo's of this, one of my favorite references of the period.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: smoke on July 25, 2018, 07:50:00 pm
They got them from British Service Issue in Hong Kong.  https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Sams-Little-Wars-Spanish-American/dp/1853673579  has photo's of this, one of my favorite references of the period.

Thanks....I thought I had that one in my library but no go. >:(  Off to Amazon.....
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on August 08, 2018, 09:04:23 am
Here is the web page, and a photo of the British "British Khaki Cotton Drill Boer War Tunic" offered by WPG:
https://onlinemilitaria.net/products/5613-British-Khaki-Drill-Cotton-Boer-War-Tunic/?bc=no

I didn't notice before, but it appears to have belt hooks at the waist.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on August 08, 2018, 09:59:47 am
Those are similar to the US EM 1899. Has anybody talked to Jerry about the possibility of reproducing the US version?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: smoke on August 08, 2018, 10:32:42 am
WPG's Boer war tunic is not really an exact copy of the p1896 tunic.  The 1896 had the standing collar.  The WPG tunic has the stand and fall collar of the P1900 regs with the pointed pocket flaps of the p1896 regs.  Seems like an easy enough fix.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on April 24, 2019, 09:42:39 am
Speaking of "Madison shoe" types...I purchased a pair of these from Amazon a couple months ago.  They are produced by Dr. Scholl's, and eligible for Amazon Prime. They do have a rubber lug sole (not slick), do NOT have a toe cap, and are very comfortable.  I rubbed them down with Neatsfoot, and they were soft and supple after only wearing a few hours.  I wear them for everyday shoes now.  The only thing on the "down side" I find is that they may not be extremely durable - the leather is not real thick - about like dress shoes, not "boots".  The edge of the sole is a dark brown, easily remedied with black leather dye or edge dressing.    The price has gone up since I bought mine, but may be acceptable for some of you.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DM2C16T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on April 24, 2019, 05:13:03 pm
Yet another that cannot spell "Cavalry". 
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on April 26, 2019, 07:07:37 am
Yet another that cannot spell "Cavalry".

Perhaps the shoe is "holey"... we all have our cross to bear...
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on April 26, 2019, 07:27:50 am
https://www.myinstants.com/instant/the-price-is-right-losing-horn/
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Mustang Gregg on June 08, 2019, 05:43:55 pm
BRAVO.
I am still going over that information.
It's great.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Niederlander on June 09, 2019, 07:11:44 am
WPG's Boer war tunic is not really an exact copy of the p1896 tunic.  The 1896 had the standing collar.  The WPG tunic has the stand and fall collar of the P1900 regs with the pointed pocket flaps of the p1896 regs.  Seems like an easy enough fix.
I had mine changed to a standing collar.  Pretty easy for any seamstress.  (I doubt if I could ever do it myself........)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 02, 2019, 07:41:34 pm
Reading thru McChristians book, concerning the 1884 brown duck uniform, he states (near the bottom of page 141) that "Chevrons, however, were not authorized for wear on either the duck coats or the stable frocks."  Since the subtitle of the book states that it covers "1880-1892" , were these authorized later?  I am considering an impression from Gen. Miles' 1886 Geronimo Campaign, and was trying to determine if I would need trouser stripes/ NCO chevrons (of course I could always be a Private)
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 02, 2019, 08:06:59 pm
I did find, on a uniform vendor's site, that COTTON chevrons were authorized in 1898...but can find no refernce on wear prior to that.

 "Help me, Obi-Drydock...you're my only hope..."
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Drydock on July 02, 2019, 08:49:56 pm
If you look at footnote #35 back on page 299, you will see where General Sheridan later issued a decision (1885) that noncoms of any grade, including General Staff, could wear the brown canvas clothing.  Prior to that it was thought only privates would be wearing this outfit, but it proved to be too popular among all ranks.  I suspect soon after Sheridans decision,  rank began to be displayed on the tunics, certainly by the SAW.   This would not be by regulation, but the wearing of rank on shirtsleeves in the tropics was not regulation either: it made sense to the troops, so they did it.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 02, 2019, 10:08:34 pm
Well, 1886 Arizona Territory is a loooong ways away from Washington DC and Gen. Sheridan...I know Crook wasn't picky about uniforms, considering his khaki "safari suit" and Woolsey helmet...and tennis shoes.  Wonder if Miles was one to distrupt the status quo?
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on July 03, 2019, 06:10:05 am
Wonder if Miles was one to distrupt the status quo?
Yes, Miles liked the regulations...at least when applied to the men. He wass also something of a "peacock" though so he might have liked the idea of chevrons on the stable uniform.

The chevrons on the fatigue blouse weren't authorized until 1876, but it was a common practice since at least the civil war. I can't imagine that it wouldn't be the same with the brown duck jacket, at least after it's every day wear became common.


I hope St. George will chime in.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Guns Garrett on July 13, 2019, 02:31:41 pm
I wonder if the same applies to the stripes on the trousers...some sutlers (QM Shop, one example) offers the 1884 uniform in trimmed in "branch colors".   The reference in McChristian states NCO's were authorized to draw and wear the 1884 brown uniform, but throws in the "however" about the insignia of rank NOT being authorized for wear on it...but Pitspitr and Drydock both have valid and true points.

I wonder if any chevrons would have the blue wool backing as for the fatigue blouse, and whether this would carry over to the Senior and "specialist" NCO's, such as QM Sgt, Saddler, Signal Corps?  I mean the "arc" area above the chevrons - would that arc area have the blue wool backing?  (I'm referring mostly to pre-1890's)...  I reference Drydock's profile pic as a SAW Artillery Sgt - a few years after the era of my current interest.

Speaker of of campaign uniforms...I just finished reading Leonard Wood's journal of his time "Chasing Geronimo".  After Geronimo's agreement to surrender to Miles, a group of Mexican militia arrived, demanding Geronimo be turned over to them for "justice".  Wood negotiated with them, wearing his. "campaign uniform", described as: moccasins, drawers, undershirt, and a campaign hat with no crown.
Title: Re: The 1884 Fatigue Uniform: Easy, Comfortable, inexpensive.
Post by: Pitspitr on July 20, 2019, 09:51:22 pm
Reading thru McChristians book, concerning the 1884 brown duck uniform, he states (near the bottom of page 141) that "Chevrons, however, were not authorized for wear on either the duck coats or the stable frocks."  Since the subtitle of the book states that it covers "1880-1892" , were these authorized later?  I am considering an impression from Gen. Miles' 1886 Geronimo Campaign, and was trying to determine if I would need trouser stripes/ NCO chevrons (of course I could always be a Private)
Not the period you're asking about but on pages 7&8 of Cowboys in Uniform are original period photographs of Sgt.'s wearing the brown duck uniforms with chevrons and leg stripes.