Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Bow View Haymaker on October 12, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
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I have a new idea, I know that frightens many of you , even me. :o ???
There are wild bunch side matches, plainsman side matches, long range and speed side matches.
How about a GAF approved battle rifle skirmish side match that could be included at any multi-day SASS, NCOWS, or independent club CAS shooting event. Course of fire would have to be flexible to accommodate what is available at the host club/range. But I am thinking of one or two long courses of fire like the trail walk and the fort at the Dept of Missouri muster. Or at least a CAS stage with lots of reloading and some longer distance targets plus shooting from cover and advancing on the targets. This could be a way for people who haven't been able to get to a muster to see what a GAF type match looks like.
What say you?
Brvt Maj. Bow View Haymaker,
eastern battalion, division Nebraska Department or Missouri.
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The intention of our local club for next year is to do all of our stages in the new GAF format, with all must-hit, knock-down targets. People shooting cowboy guns will just shoot them in the new format. Ah, the advantages of being the club President, Treasurer, Custodian, Groundskeeper, etc.!! I've bounced it off a couple of our regulars, and they love the idea. It will be interesting when people have to do more reloading on the clock and moving!
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Yes and when we were doing monthly matches we offered the GAF categories (but no interest here). I am thinking that a side match at a regular SASS or NCOWS event would get the new GAF format some more exposure and offer CAS shooters a new and different challenge.
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At the 2010 Grand Muster, you might see all of those that you mentioned. It might remind you of the OWSA shoot at Raton, NM. Just remember we are just having FUN and reliving the Victorian period.
Scooter
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I am really looking forward to the Grand muster. The GAF mindset is soo different that SASS or NCWOS. My idea of a side match that can be added to any existing multi day event is to give the SASS and NCOWS regulars a chance to try it when they probably wouldn't bother otherwise. I'm thinking of venues like the state and regional SASS events. just a thought.
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I have heard of some clubs now holding Wild Bunch matches as a seperate event form the regular SASS match on a different weekend even. Wouldn't it be great if The GAF battle rifle /skirmish could grow the same way.
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That sounds like an interesting idea
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We're small enough that we can sort of do both. We're done for this year with our regularly scheduled matches, but next April we'll be starting up again with the new format of all knock-down, all must-hit targets. Shooters will have their choice of shooting cowboy guns or GAF guns, and we'll make sure each stage will include some shotgun friendly targets. We tried a stage Saturday using the knock-downs we already have, and it was a hit! People like to see something fall when they shoot it. Scoring is easier, too. Either it falls down or it doesn't. It's going to take a little retraining to get people to end on an empty chamber or an empty cartridge and then empty anything left in the magazine at the unloading table. The timer has to be on the ball to make sure shooters move only with a safe gun, but it works well. Shooters also have to be a lot more prepared to reload from their body. Those cartridge belts actually get used!
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Reminds of a "assualt course" i helped set up with a WW2 re-enact group years back. We had paper outline targets of various sizes t distances. You had o run from one to the other and halfway, there a nayonet dummy. You could either fix baynets just for that or go through the course of fire with the pig sticker in place. We had an utter blast, would love to see something like that done for 19th century stuff...
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Captain Bishop,
Come to the Department of the Missouri Muster next year and you'll see it in action! Both the Main Match and the Expansion Era Match will be all knock-downs and all must-hit targets. Bayonet dummies, too! With any luck, we should have a minimum of forty to fifty knock-down targets available by then. (We only had five last year.) Should be a blast!
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I think its great that the clubs have been able to combine GAF with the main matcnes. What I have in mind is something thatcan be added to a SASS match as sort of an intro to the GAF type of stage. I am going to try to set up 1 GAF type stage with one of the SASS vlubs I have started shooting with out here. just a seperate stage we can shooot after the regular match. probably shoot it with the regular CAS rifles aw in the Scout class. The stage will be something like 6-10 pistol shots and 11-15 rifle so there would be some reloading of both and the rifle and pistol. targets would be out farther than they would be used to. Part of the rifle shot from a rest or cover.
Any ideas? thoughts? suggestions?
I don't have a rifle caliber rifle to demonstrate so basicly the diferent stge designs would be what I would show.
thanks
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i've got a 98 Krag rifle, perhaps we could coordinate the demonstration.
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that might work
Are you goiong to shoot with the Alter Valley Pistoleos this month?
I an going to call tommorow and see what they will let me do.
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Where and when do they shoot
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Alter Vally shoots the 3rd and 5th Sundays at the Tucson Rifle Club, about 25 miles west of Tucson. the matches are run by the same folks that put of "Bordertown".
I am also wanting to try the Rio Salado club but coudn't make the fri night intro. There is also a couple NM clubs at Silver City and Las Cruces I might visit.
Where do youl shoot at?
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Ben Avery
3rd Sunday in January is definitely out as I have mom duty (take care of mom vs act like one) that week end.
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I'd love to come shoot at Ben Averybut the 2nd Sat is out for a couple months. Maybe in March.
How big are your monthly shoots? Any chance of a GAF stage?
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Depends, in the heat of the summer 40 -60, when it gets cool 100+
Would have to talk to them about a GAF stage.
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Something to keep in mind.
I'll try to dig up a few stages that would work with 1 pistoland a rifle andpost them here.
with the ranges around hear and the divided action bays a true skirmish just wont work, butI think we can come up with somthing with the GAF feel using the SASS range layout.
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5Dogs in Bakersfield has held a couple of Victorian/Military matches the most recent being about a year ago;
http://sdough.smugmug.com/Art/SheBang-2010/14573082_KGJNNK#1083297211_yk8JQ
http://sdough.smugmug.com/Art/5-Dogs-Cowboy-Match/7633334_f5mLzv#493476913_3J524
They are really fun to shoot and Old Top loves using his trapdoor....
curley
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Curley. That looked awesome. Thanks for sharing the pictures with us.
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Thing are looking good to try a GAF stage/side match.at the Alter Valley Pitoleros SASS jmatch the 5th Sunday of Jan. west of Tucson AZ. I just have to e-mail the MD the stage layout and basic guidlines. Probably won' thave any "rifle caiber" guns to use (my 2 trys at trapdoors on gunbroker lost. My wife is greatly relieved :( ). this stage willl probably be more like the stages at ealy musters as it is a SASS club and the shooter have mostly SASS guns. I hope to incorperate the Milspec rifles in the future. If all goes well there is a chance to get a GAF sidematch on the schedule for "Bordertown" 2012,the state SASS championship.possibly even a state muster on the first or last day.
What makes a stage a GAF stage? to me it is longer ranges for targets and some reloading on the clock. possibly shooting from a rest for some and a bit of movement. I think it best not to use the must-hit or knockdown targets right now. not sure the club has the targets for it andI want to keep the stages short.
wish me luck.
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Don't know if anyone is interested in this or cares, but here is a couple of potential GAF based stages I am trying bring to the Alter Valley 5th Sun day shoot coming up. Just my lowly attempt to bring a taste of the great GAF musters to the SASS world that is Arizona.
What ya think?
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Good morning, Bow View!
They look like a good place to start. The only recommendation I would make is maybe move the targets a little farther out, with the far ones being forty to fifty yards out. (Make them slow down and aim!) One of the most difficult things to break CAS shooters of is having to shoot targets in a certain order, as opposed to shooting them until they are all "dead", as we do. (Admittedly, it's an easier transition if you have knockdown targets, as shooters can see when they're "dead".) As an example, at our Muster last July, shooters started engaging targets way farther out than we had intended because they could shoot at them from a rested position of cover, as opposed to closer up but a worse shooting position. Excellent tactics!
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I know that farther out would be good but the ranges I want to try these at don't have very deep shooting bays and 25 yards is about double what these folks are used to shooting the rifle at. I do want to have the targets spread out and not right next to each other like they usually are. That should slow things down some.
My wole idea is NOT a full GAF match but a chace to give the SASS world a chace to shoot a GAF type stage or 3 without scareing them away.
I appreitiate your help.
thanks
I am starting to count the days till July.
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Cool! Do what your range will allow, and win them over by stages! (No pun intended!)
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:D ;D :D ;D
that is my plan. I encourage other clubs to do liikewise. I am not out to change the SASS world, just let em know there are other options out there .
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Keep it up. There is plenty of room for both games in town.
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Everything is a go For a GAF side match stage at the Alter Vally SASS shoot tomorrow west of Tucson .
Planning on doing it before the main match. (I'm going to try to leave home by 5 to be there by 7:30). I think it's closer to you guys in Phoenix. Sure would be great to have a good GAF turnout. Most will probably be shooting as "Scouts" (me included) with our regular CAS rifles and 1 pistol. Anyone with a milspec rifle to show off would be great.
Round count is less than 15 rile and less than 10 pistol for this one stage. The rest of the match is regular SASS of 6 stages.
Wish us luck
Bvt Maj. Bow View Haymaker
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Maybe another time. I have figured out a load that should be GAF / SASS legal. Do not know for sure as I do not have a chrony. May take it to the next ACSA match and run it over the club chrony.
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sounds like your making progress. Do you plan to shoot Bordertown? interested in going to the DOM muster or the grand?
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Will not make any of the musters this year. Am uncertain as to Border Town. May retire in Dec, not sure I want to burn vacation days prior to retirement.
As for next year - If retired to paraphrase Paladin - Have 5th Wheel, will travel
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Bow View:
Is your GAF side match this coming weekend?
MG
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Just as a general reply to this thread, the Plum Creek Shooting Society, where I shoot regularly, allows GAF Single and GAF Repeater as a category. We shoot the Cody/Dixon rifle targets, the same pistol targets as everyone else and reload our pistols on the clock. Our posse usually consists of about 1/3 GAF, 1/3 C/D and 1/3 cas. It works well for us and gives those of us interested in the GAF a chance to shoot mostly the way we would at a GAF muster. It also gives us a chance to model our uniforms, although we could wear those shooting whatever category. I will note that some refer to our posse as the "slow" posse. Because of our "military efficiency" in running the posse (everyone helps, stays busy and stays ready), we usually finish shooting BEFORE all of the other posses. If anyone is ever in the Austin area, we shoot the first Saturday of each month at the Agarita Ranch in Lockhart, about 45 minutes south of Austin.
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First, I apologize for the late report. I want to thank the gracious Match directors at Alter Valley pistoleers for setting up targets for me and letting me give the GAF side match a try. I gave my little intro about the GAF and what makes a GAF muster different from a Cowboy match. Then demonstrated shooting the stage with my lever gun (no trapdoor yet) and pistol reloading a few rounds in each on the clock. That was it. The 3 polite Cowboys listening and watching thanked me and went back too the crowd mingling before the main match. I was pleased with the set up but very disappointed in the interest or lack of. If there were any other GAF members about, I didn't meet them. I did give out some info after the match. might try something again at there next 5th Sunday match. this club has an OPEN category that you can shoot under a second alias just for fun,I Might see if I can shoot a second time through GAF style.
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Reply #83 on: Today at 05:31:23 am ยป
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I've decided to kick this dead horse again.
I think the Alter Valley club out of Tucson is willing to let me shoot their
"open" category GAF style. At one of the smaller matches. (they are pretty big this time of year.)
I think I would shoot half the rifle targets with the single shot and do a full pistol reload on a couple of stages,shoot all rifle targets making up misses with my "scout" rifle and full pistol reload on a couple, and maybe even use my expansion era 1917 Enfield and 1911 on a couple. a taste of everything. I don't want to take a lot of extra time per stage but let the others get a chance to see whats different about GAF. Then maybe get more interest down the road.
I know some of you out there have been able to shoot GAF with you cowboy clubs. How have you integrated it into the monthly matches? targets shot? reloads? shotgun targets? misses or keep shooting?
If there is anyone around southern Arizona interested in trying this Whit me, let me know. I might try at the march 17th match at Alter Valley.
regards.
Bvt. Maj Bow View Haymaker (or Haymajor or Hey Major)
GAF Signal Officer, Dept or the Platte Chiief of Scouts.
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On another note, I am thinking of asking the "Bordertown" directors about doing a GAF muster side match at the AZ state SASS shoot the end of October. the biggest constraint will be time. their side match day was pretty full last year. If a is open on side match day and I'm not needed otherwise I will try. I will be sure to keep you posted.
Just let me know of anyone is interested in being there. It would sure help.
regards.
Bvt. Maj Bow View Haymaker (or Haymajor or Hey Major)
GAF Signal Officer, Dept or the Platte Chiief of Scouts.
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Why don't you just trot yourself over to the NM side of the line - be happy to let you shoot GAF style on any of our monthly matches. ;D
www.magdalenatraildrivers.com
BTW, we are hosting the NM State Championship this September. We have some CW re-enactors who will be camping on site. Might be able to work something up as a side match. If seriously interested, I will look into it. :)
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I would likie to make it over to your club somtime. About a 5 hour drive if I remember right? The state match sounds good though. We just need to get the GAF members in the Department to start making some noise. finding each other and doing some shooting with our milspec rifles.