Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gun Reviews => Topic started by: shooter Mike on December 22, 2009, 08:46:40 PM
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Hi, I now have my pistols and a shotgun for CAS but I still need a rifle. The Rossi has a good price but I have read some folks saying that the wood to metal fit isn't very good. If anyone has bought one of these recently I would appreciate any and all comments. Thanks, Mike
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I don't have any personal experience with them, but have heard many negative comments about function and rough actions over the years. That being said, I read a recent article that reported they were much improved and recommended them as a good rifle.
You might also want to consider a Marlin. They are a little more expensive, but US made and very reliable. They are much less prone to jams, especially when feeding straight walled cases like the 45 LC, 44Spl/Mag and 38/357.
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Rossi's are also called Pumas and they are model 92 replicas, so go down through this forum and read all the posts about Pumas and 92's. About anything you could wonder about is covered. You'll find that many guys have one or two and are pretty happy with them. Wood to metal fit can be hit and miss. I don't think any of them are terrible, I've seen some bad fit on just about any rifle or shotgun. It is more a problem of modern production methods than quality.
The roughness issue can be solved one of two ways. Lube it up and shoot it alot, or have a gunsmith slick it up a bit.
I have a Rossi (puma) 44-40 that has been slicked up and it's smooth as glass and very accurate. The wood fit is fine but it's Brazilian hardwood that has a very dark stain. Several companies have replacement American walnut stocks and fore ends, and I plan on replacing mine someday.
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I have a very new SS '92 Carbine and a Cimaron '73 Rifle both in .45 Colt.
The '92 is a lot stiffer. The '73 is as slick as it can be, does have an action job though.
The '92 is much stonger and I use it as a hunting/truck/extra CAS gun. I play with my '73.
For CAS I'd take a '73, at a much higher price.
For a work gun I'd go for the '92.
I did change out the rear sight on the '92, it now has a semi-Buckhorn.
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Shooter Mike,
In my experience, Rossi and other '92 shooter's, like M1 carbine shooters, are divided into two camps -- the Swear-By's and the Swear-At's. Generally speaking, the Swear-By shooters are those who understand the intended functions and the limitations of the rifles, and either work to improve them or stay generally within them. The Swear-At shooters, in my experience, are those who expect the rifles to somehow perform beyond their intended functions and limitations.
Of course, your mileage and experience may vary.
-- Nighteyes
<--- Started with Marlins, moved to Winchester reproductions
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The 38/357 models do better with 357s because of the longer case. Mine likes the 357s too. I took my Rossi to Nate Kiowa Jones in Port Arthur for an action job. He is the best to smooth up a Rossi. I highly recommend him. If you get one, just stay with the 357s and you should not have any problems.
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I just got a new 45 Colt 20 carbine. I love it. It was ok out of the box, but I bought Steve's Gunz DVD and did the mods plus put a spring set from Brownels in. Now it is fantasically slick. The wood is some South American wood stained walnut, but it looks good and the fit is good. All in all it is a good little rifle with a lot of potential.
Lloyd
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Help me answer a question for a guy on another forum. Does anyone have a 44 magnum Rossi that has tried 44 specials in it? Do they function OK or are they tricky like the 38's in 357 rifles?
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The Rossi in .44 mag. funcsion whith .44 special and .44 russian as well.
The Missing Link
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I've got a 92 in 44 mag that I had long before I got interested in CAS. I did the action job myself and believe me it made a world of difference and I did't slick it up as much as I could have.
Even before the action job I never had a problem with jamming or failure to function. The thing I found out and I have heard other people say the same thing, is you have to cycle it like you mean it. You can't and won't get away with sneaking up on this rifle.
Mine has been on probably 25 Deer hunts in all kinds of weather and i am including as much as a windchill factor of 20 below and it has never failed me even once. As long as I did what I was supposed to do.
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I have 2 of the Rossi 92's both are the older Rossi's, one in 38/357 and the other in 45LC the fit and finish are terrific on these two older ones, both are slick shooters. That being said I have no experience with the newer ones. You might want to look at the EMF Hartford 92's, the price is reasonable and I liked the way it just snaps to your shoulder.
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I have an EMF Hartford 1892 Carbine in .44-40. I had an action job done and it is very smooth. I really like the wood on this one. As Gun Butcher said, you do have to cycle it with authority.
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I have a .38 Rosi 92 which I slicked up myself and it is a smooooth shooter now, very fast. I'd say the Marlin is more reliable though. It's tough for me to say that b/c I've had the Rosi completly apart twice and I really know it well. I guess you could compare it to driving an older Jag. The car is famous for electrical issues but it normally always works. It's that 1% of the time that really pisses you off. Is that something you want to deal with? For me the 92 is the best looking of the 73 and the Marlins. Ask me again in a year and I'll probably be shooting a Marlin. Who knows. For the money you're droping to get into this sport what's another couple hundred for a more reliable rifle?
FWIW
jb
June 2010 - I'm now shooting a 73. That 1% of the time happened w/ the 92 and I got mad and ordered a Connager special. That's the only way it was going to happen, is if I got real mad.
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You get what you pay for. A new Rossi 92 can be bought through Cheaper Than Dirt for less than $400. I don't know where you can get a new Uberti 73 for less than $1100. I have two Rossi 92s in 45LC and a Codymatic that I bought from Cody in 357 which I have only shot and will only shoot 38sp. None of them have ever malfunctioned on me ever, OK the Uberti doesn't like semi-wad cutters, but the 92s have never seen a SWC. All three are very accurate, but in my hands the Codymatic acts like it's shooting guided missiles. As for fit and finish and smoothness of action there is no comparison. Both my 92s are totally stock. Maybe if I shelled out another $150 for an action job and different springs they would be just as smooth as the very well tuned Uberti, although I don't see how that's possible. That last $600 difference is the fit and finish and, well, you get what you pay for.
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I've been shooting a 92 rossi for several years. Bouth it almost 10 yhears ago been shooting cowboy about 6. The rifle has had thousands of rounds through it from full .357 SWC loads to light .38s. no action job just honest wear.
Only had to open it up once. After a year of 2 of hard cowboy use it would kick the next round out with the empty. A thin shim behind the feed guid to narrow the gap the shell comes up through and loading my .38s a bit long solved the problem 99% of the time. When you work the action of a Rossi 92 , don't go lightly. Work it hard. you ain'tgona' break it. It has a longer lever throw so use it. Treat it like an exgirlfriend/wife not a first date.
I guess I would be in the "swear by them" catagory. I am wanting another in .45 or maybe .454. I'd love to find another presafty model.
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Hi, I now have my pistols and a shotgun for CAS but I still need a rifle. The Rossi has a good price but I have read some folks saying that the wood to metal fit isn't very good. If anyone has bought one of these recently I would appreciate any and all comments. Thanks, Mike
I have a Rossi lever gun in .45 LC and .357 Mag .I really like both of them .
Low recoil , small , handy , " pretty " and economical to feed with reloads & home cast bullets .
A good buy .
God bless Wyr
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my circa 1995 rossi will handle 44 specials with 245 grain semi wads. It throws 44 spec 200 grain rnfp straight out the top.
Feeds just fine with 200 rnfp from 44 mag cases, so thats what I use.
If I ever shoot enough lost brass matches to run out of 44 spec brass I will go strictly to 44 mag, but until then it is 44 spec in the pistols and 44 mag in the rifle.
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Hello..
I followed the instructions on this page and "trimmed" my Rossi -92, it took a while but I'm very pleased with the outcome. I tested a friends -73 which is tuned, mine is as slick as his, the only thing I miss is a short stroke kit (there is no shortstroke to Rossi :-\)
http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Rossitune.htm
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I bought a Rossi Puma 92 when they first came out because it was affordable. Problem is with the function. It lets the .45 shells I load in it pop up and doesn't feed them well from the tube mag. It does this quite regularly and is the reason I replaced it with a 1866 Yellowboy I got from Cabella's. The Yellowboy cost me $650.00 but good luck finding one for that cost these days. My Rossi cost me about $390.00. I did hear that the new Rossi's are much better than when they first came out. I don't know but I also don't know if I would spend the money to find out. I would rather spend more to get something of quality than to spend little and get junk.
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I bought a older Rossi (brazii) 92 two years ago. It had feeding problems as i discovered basically all 44-40s did and they crushed the case mouths due to to stiff of springs. Anyhows right before i moved a month ago i dug the parts out of a bag and thought well ill reassemble it for moving then i thought ill play with it some but not much... But then all of a sudden all of its problems made sense looked at my 94s loading gates etc and file here and there and now it work perfect. Shorten some of the springs and since i have a 44 mag pistol the 44 mag diameter barrel is a plus since i already use 200 gr bullets in 44 mag and i love that cheap little gun, fitting and finish i feel are very adequate and well done. Some regular 92 winchester parts like the loading gate interchanged. It made me mad for a long time but now i love it because it was a cheap gun bought second hand that theres no way the prev owner shot much due to its fitting problems that are now fixed. i can beat it up and use it and not feel bad bout carrying it in the pickup alot etc. And it dont have the stupid safety on top the bolt that ive seen on newer models ive came across. If it were a 44 mag itd not have the problems it did i suspect, but the 44-40 is a nice old round i enjoy with as much enthusiasm.
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I just picked up a 92 Rossi from my FFL after the 10 day wait. It has an action job by Nate Kiowa Jones. I will soon get it to the range to see how it works.
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Howdy All,
"Several companies have replacement American walnut stocks and fore ends, and I plan on replacing mine someday."
I'm thinking about just going late time frame and getting a Rossi so I can get a pair of matched RATS.. How much do the American Walnut stocks cost?
Lewie
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If you ever come across one of the older INTERARMS Rossi's jump all over it if the price is right. I've got two one in .38/.357 and another in .44 mag. I started with the .357 and have had it for at least 16 years. I gave $175 for it in a pawn shop. It loves the 147gr TC bullet from www.moultonlead.com Basically a longer bullet that when loaded in a .38 case is the same length as a .357. I load mine 1.55" and it eats them up without a hitch.
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I have three Rossi 1892 rifles.
454 Casull, 45LC Customized Take Down and a Brass Frame 1892
All are 100% perfect rifles. Smooth as silk and extremely accurate. All three have great wood to metal finish. For the $$ spent, there is no competition.............
But......
My 1973 Uberti is much faster and easier handling for CAS. The pistol grip is a huge plus for me. But it costs more than twice what an 1893 Puma will cost.
Your dime!
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I have three Rossi 1892 rifles.
454 Casull, 45LC Customized Take Down and a Brass Frame 1892
All are 100% perfect rifles. Smooth as silk and extremely accurate. All three have great wood to metal finish. For the $$ spent, there is no competition.............
But......
My 1973 Uberti is much faster and easier handling for CAS. The pistol grip is a huge plus for me. But it costs more than twice what an 1893 Puma will cost.
Your dime!
Quick question on the 454 have you tried 45 colts in it and if so how well does it work. I was thinking about getting one myself. Thanks
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Yes, I shoot 45LC in the 454 all the time. Excellent accuracy and a whole bunch less recoil. Shooting this very light gun with 300g 454 loads will REALLY get your attention!
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Yes, I shoot 45LC in the 454 all the time. Excellent accuracy and a whole bunch less recoil. Shooting this very light gun with 300g 454 loads will REALLY get your attention!
I had the same question. I love my .357 m92 and it feedsboth the .38sp and the .357mag well, any bullet Ifeed it.
Been thinking about a .454 myself.I wonder how much black would fit in the .454 case under a 20-250 gr cast bullet???
Lots of smoke ;D
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Yes, I shoot 45LC in the 454 all the time. Excellent accuracy and a whole bunch less recoil. Shooting this very light gun with 300g 454 loads will REALLY get your attention!
Thanks and once I get my Uberti Cattleman 1873 75" barrel revolver I will pick up a 454 then. I will be selling off a Springfield Arms 1911 loaded US model made in 2004 tomorrow to Buds and ordering the Uberti I want. I should have enough left to perhaps put the 454 on layaway as I expect to get about $600 for the Springfield as that is what they offered me when I bought it used. I've only put about 100 rounds more though it since then since I own a couple of 1911 besides the Springfield.
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75 inch barrel..................WOW! ;D
Can you still get the Rossi in 454? I thought they stopped making them..........
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75 inch barrel..................WOW! ;D
Can you still get the Rossi in 454? I thought they stopped making them..........
Typo I missed my period. It should read 7.5" barrel. ;D
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Yea, I knew that............just joshing with ya!
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Yea, I knew that............just joshing with ya!
I knew you did. Oh and I talked to Bud's the other day and they said they still have a few so will probably put one on layaway tomorrow when I take them the Springfield. They said they had two in case hardened, blued with octagon barrels but didn't mention the lengths to me when I spoke to them.
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YIKES............Case hardened with octagon barrels...........Please let me know if this is real and the barrel length and I'll buy the other one. Or give me Buds info and I'll call them tomorrow.
I had no idea they were EVER offered in 454 with this configuration. Mine is round barrel, blued receiver.
(http://images56.fotki.com/v127/photos/2/36012/9578412/DSC_2600-vi.jpg)
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YIKES............Case hardened with octagon barrels...........Please let me know if this is real and the barrel length and I'll buy the other one. Or give me Buds info and I'll call them tomorrow.
I had no idea they were EVER offered in 454 with this configuration. Mine is round barrel, blued receiver.
(http://images56.fotki.com/v127/photos/2/36012/9578412/DSC_2600-vi.jpg)
They don't have a single 454 listed on their site now so perhaps I've waited to long unless they have a couple stached in the back somewhere. Simply type up Buds Guns and you will get them on the net. I new that Rossi didn't list such a gun so I asked and that is what the guy I spoke too told me. Now with that said it isn't the first time one of the counter people there wasn't up to speed on a particular gun. At any rate I will talk to their buyer tomorrow.
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Ok I just got back from Bud's and you are correct and I was wrong, no 454 in stock and the guy was looking at a 45 colt in that finish. So no luck on it so will pass for now. I did get a good price for the Springfield and will be trading it for the Uberti Cattleman when it arrives. I will get money back to buy some other stuff too probably enough to get Cliff to make me a holster for it and some ammo.
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He has a nice web site and it looks like he is well stocked.
Too bad no 454 in octagone.........all my lever actions except a Marlin 39 Mountie and my Rossi 454 wear 8 sided steel. I'm just a nut for octagon barrels!
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He has a nice wen site and it looks like he is well stocked.
Too bad no 454 in octagone.........all my lever actions except a Marlin 39 Mountie and my Rossi 454 wear 8 sided steel. I'm just a nut for octagon barrels!
He is very well stocked and probably the biggest internet seller of guns. It is actually 2 stores within a 1/4 radius as well as internet and state of the art range including one LEO can actually set the time of day lights and even drive in with their cars. His prices are also hard to beat. It is local for me as it is about 10 minutes from my home. I shoot their range about once a week with various guns mostly may carry guns.
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I have had a rossi 92 since about 1995. Back then there was a problem with the 44 mags, they drilled a .429 hole and then rifled out to about .435. My rifle would key hole at 25 yards if I pushed it. 800- 900 fps pistol rounds worked ok though for cas. I since discovered if I use desparado soft lead bullets and moderate charges I can get sub 8 inch groups at 100 yards, so I never bothered sending the gun back to get rebarreled.
I could shoot 44 specials out of mine if I used 245 grain semi wad cutters and a good roll crimp. They did not feed really well but could be shot. The rifle feeds much better with 200 grain lrn out of a 44 mag case. For my gun if you seat that bullet in a 44 spec case when you ram the lever open the elevator flipping up tosses the short round straight up in the air and out of the rifle. Would work just fine with a longer round nose flat point bullet - really dont see the need to shoot the shorter bullet. Seriously thinking about phasing out my 44 special brass and strictly going with 44 mag in rifle and pistol. Currently shoot 44 spec from my vaqueros and super blackhawks.
The newer rossi's are much smoother operating than my old gun. I spent big bucks getting one slicked up by nate kiowa jones. Had him replace the bolt as well - did not want the safety. It is slick and smooth. Last week at 25 yards put 3 rounds in two holes. Only about 1/8 inch of paper separated the two holes. The hole the 2 rounds went into was only about 1/16 inch out of round. Working on a load to use as my long range pistol caliber load. Need something a little faster than 700 - 800 fps out of the pistol to make the trip and stay stable.
Bottom line the rossi really is a good gun and is much stronger and lighter in equal barrel lengths than the 73. For SASS if you want to win big matches it seems like you need a slicked 73 or a marlin.
If you plan on hunting with your rifle and want to use heavy yet safe loads you really only have 2 choices and the 73 is not one of them. Rossi or Marlin all the way.
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Took my 1892 "Golden Boy" out to the range yesterday afternoon. Put 200 rounds through it after I did the action job. This is easily the most accurate lever rifle I've ever owned! At 50 yards, iron sights, using my range bag as a rest, it put 100 rounds in a black bullseye 4" across.........
From a standing position I would guess 80% of my shots hit an 10" gong.........
I also had my 1873 Uberti and 1884 Cowboy Marlin along. They are both sweet guns, but I didn't have the accuracy success of the Rossi.
This Rossi is a keeper!
(http://images112.fotki.com/v386/photos/2/36012/10239772/DSC_3947-vi.jpg)
(http://images57.fotki.com/v300/photos/2/36012/10239772/DSC_3886-vi.jpg)
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Confirm that is just a brass plated steel receiver
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Nope, not brass plated steel..........It is real, honest to goodness "Gun Metal".....An alloy used in the manufacture of "brass looking" rifle receivers since the 1800s. Gin Metal is much tougher than brass.
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Nope, not brass plated steel..........It is real, honest to goodness "Gun Metal".....An alloy used in the manufacture of "brass looking" rifle receivers since the 1800s. Gin Metal is much tougher than brass.
In what caliber? I don't think I'd want one in .454 with a steady diet of hot loads with a gunmetal receiver. OTOH, the mass of the receiver and the steel locking bolts should be adequate for .45 LC with reasonable loads. John Moses designed 'em strong. Still, I think I'd check the headspace every thousand rounds of hot loads or so.
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This rifle is 45LC and will only be shooting Cowboy Loads.
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;D WM
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actually some kind of bronze for the gun metal correct??
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My 38/357 Rossi does not like 38s, it works better with .357 cases. I let Steve smooth up my Rossi and it is flawless with the .358 cases. I live about 300 miles from Steve, so when I was on business down his way, I dropped it off. I picked it up the next time I was in town. I have plenty of .357 cases.
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No 92 is made with a brass receiver. They are brass plated steel. Stick a magnet on it.
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No 92 is made with a brass receiver. They are brass plated steel. Stick a magnet on it.
WRONG......I just went an tried a magnet on it.........won't stick to it. This receiver is a solid piece of "GunMetal"......Brass/Bronze Alloy
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I have 2, one in 44-40, which I've had for 15 or so years. The other in 38/357, which I just got and havent even fired yet. It's off to the smith for an action job.
My 44-40 is an awesome gun, action job made it slick as a whistle, full buckhorn rear sight, has not had one malfunction in 15 years. And its a tac driver too, my favorite SRC by far. Oddly, this SRC has no SRC. My only complaint, and not really a complaint, would be the front sight is part of the barrel band. So there is no choice for a change if one wanted one, AFAIK.
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Absolutely true - they are NOT brass plated steel - they are gun brass - 100%. I don't know where this rumor came from - perhaps it was because folks confused them weith the Henry Golden Boys or something . The Rossi is GUN BRASS.
T.Two Dogs
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunmetal
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Years ago, I bought a well used Puma .357 mag rifle, which I really loved to shoot, but I could not get to like the John Wayne/ cowboy big lever- and someone had drilled scope mount holes in it, so eventually I used it as trade material.
Since I am now retired and simplifying my gun accumulation to mostly .38 Spl/.357 magnum, I was interested in another Rossi. I saw one on gunbroker, used, for about $550, deecided to look further, found one at Buds online. Brand new 20' round barrel, walnut, for $419, free shipping. It should be here next week.
I have owned several Rossi revolvers , including my 462 that is my main carry revolver. I like their products very much. My old Smiths stay home, my Rossi goes out with me.
I think this little .357 levergun will be great for deer here in Eastern PA, where you can't see more than 40 yards in the woods most of the time. Might be good for groundhogs, too.
mark
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Rossi's: Kinda like "Love and Hate". Depending on which side of the fence you are standing. You cannot short stroke, but all the short stroke does is give the shooter a few nano seconds anyway. You can slick the '92 and make it as "race ready" as any '73. The '92 is not as heavy as the '73 but it can be unforgiving... I have both the Rossi '92 and a Uberti '73. The '73 has all the bells and whistles you can put on one... BUT ifn you do not get your bullets the correct OAL with a '73 you will have problems in the feeding. I have never had that problem with the '92. BUT having said that... with the '92 you have to lever it FULL cycle, if you don't, then it will remind you when you are under the clock. I did my own action work on the '92 and I could not be more pleased with it... sometimes I think maybe it is "too slick". I love the '73, but it was a "problem child" for a long time. I will state that the Uberti '73 looked so good ROB as compared to the '92 which looked like "trash" as it came ROB. But you are talking a BIG difference in cost. I have never had a feeding problem with the '92. Both of my rifles are in 45LC and they are both fitted with 20" barrels. My Rossi was a casehardened frame/lever and cresent butt plate. But the caseharden done by the Rossi folks looked very "amaturish". The wood was almost black as it came ROB. It took me a while and a lot of work, but I refinished the '92 and did the action. I prefer the '92 over the '73. Here is a picture of the '92 "AFTER" all my work on it.
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I just completed my CAS long gun requirments with a pair of Rossi's:
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/PairofRossis.jpg)
THe 92 is my first rifle period, so I don't have a good reference to it compare to, other than the Marlin I borrowed at my first event. It is not as smooth or easy to work as that Marlin, I will get the Nate Jones DVD and do an action job later. It cycles my 45 Colt just fine if you work the action like you mean it, I will add a leather wrap for the lever to my list of upgrades. The wood grain is nice but the finish is very flat. The wood to metal fit is OK. It did drop a screw while I was handling it last night, so I checked all other screws and four were loose! All that said, I like the rifle and for the price($405 out the door) you can't go wrong! This will be my long term temporary rifle, I will save for an 1860 or '66 one day.
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I just completed my CAS long gun requirments with a pair of Rossi's:
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/PairofRossis.jpg)
THe 92 is my first rifle period, so I don't have a good reference to it compare to, other than the Marlin I borrowed at my first event. It is not as smooth or easy to work as that Marlin, I will get the Nate Jones DVD and do an action job later. It cycles my 45 Colt just fine if you work the action like you mean it, I will add a leather wrap for the lever to my list of upgrades. The wood grain is nice but the finish is very flat. The wood to metal fit is OK. It did drop a screw while I was handling it last night, so I checked all other screws and four were loose! All that said, I like the rifle and for the price($405 out the door) you can't go wrong! This will be my long term temporary rifle, I will save for an 1860 or '66 one day.
The Steve's Gunz DVD and tune kit as well as his safety plug is how I did mine. It is as smooth now as any rifle I've tried in any NCOWS event. I also didn't use Steve's spring but went with the Gunfighter set sold by Brownells which was a bit better in my opinion. However his disk helps a lot in taking it apart and getting it back together right. It also includes his metal magazine follower also. I didn't want to take mine as far as I might use it for smaller game hunting also. Steve's kit is worth it for nothing else but the DVD in my opinion.
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I would rather resurrect this old thread than start yet another Rossi Puma thread.
I have a brass framed stainless '92 in .45LC with the heavy octagonal barrel. I slicked it myself with the help of some YouTube videos and that made a world of difference. I replaced the rear site and magazine guide.
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q20/RedLegRider/GUNS/Model92PumaLSI003.jpg)
(http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/attachments/taurus-rossi-rifles/15805d1318833776-rossi-m92-puma-cheap-rear-sites-lawyer-safety-img_0461.jpg)
The barrel is a bit more than I need for SASS shoots but my last Rossi Puma's round barrel was hardly enough. None of the local gunsmiths seem to be up to bobbing the barrel.
The main reasons that I own Rossis is the price and the stainless steel. I shoot black powder cartridge and stainless tolerates a good washing better than bluing. If there was an 1866 in stainless for a good price....... I have been using videos to coach myself to shoot faster. Shotgun was holding me back but I have gotten half way fast with it now. I just made some significant improvements to my revolvers which have cut my time down so now my rifle is the slow gun and I have no brilliant ideas left other than switching guns. I do not have a short stroke kit but have heard less than stellar reviews of these for Rossis. A little larger loop for my thick hands might help but I cannot find such a thing. I do have occasional difficult feeds usually half way through but I cannot seem to catch the issue.
Do you Rossi Puma owners have any more tricks, techniques, or tips for SASS shooting?
This is an older video but the rifle is still pretty typical in case anyone has any constructive comments I would love to hear them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnP_LvESmKE I do practice pulling the stock into my shoulder as I close the lever the first time but being a little muzzle heavy I sometimes miss slightly. After the 3-4 round I start speeding up a lot now despite the black powder smoke.
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What experience have other Rossi Puma owners had with this or other spring kits? http://www.cowboyshootingstore.com/Gunslinger_Spring_Kit_for_Rossi_92_p/lees-rossi.htm
(http://cdn3.volusion.com/7omub.zdwe7/v/vspfiles/photos/LEES-ROSSI-2.jpg)
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Karl-
It has been awhile since I did the work on my Rossi 92. I used the Lee's Gunslinger Spring Kit but I also weakened it a bit more.. as I recall I cut off 3 coils and that lightened the hammer pull greatly. I do not have any problems with miss fires as long as I use Federal Primers... if I use CCI or Winchester primers I will have problems... so all I use is FEDERALS, they are softer and I never have a miss fire in revolvers or rifles. I do all of my own action work... I do not like sending my guns to someone and have to wait for them to do what I can do... my opine. I do have a habit of sometimes making my guns "too slick"... then I have to resort to VTI for another part...LOL
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Karl-
It has been awhile since I did the work on my Rossi 92. I used the Lee's Gunslinger Spring Kit but I also weakened it a bit more.. as I recall I cut off 3 coils and that lightened the hammer pull greatly. I do not have any problems with miss fires as long as I use Federal Primers... if I use CCI or Winchester primers I will have problems... so all I use is FEDERALS, they are softer and I never have a miss fire in revolvers or rifles. I do all of my own action work... I do not like sending my guns to someone and have to wait for them to do what I can do... my opine. I do have a habit of sometimes making my guns "too slick"... then I have to resort to VTI for another part...LOL
Thank you for the response and review.
I also like to do my own tuning. The only problem primers that I have run into are Remingtons and that is based on shotgun shells (all coincidentally bought at Wallmart). You have me wondering about just cutting some coils off the stock hammer spring for now since I can't complain about the trigger spring and don't feel a need to replace it.
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My Rossi was a nightmare last shoot. Just not feeding. When I took it apart for cleaning the stock magazine came out in three pieces despite me oiling it with each cleaning. :-\
Ordering a stainless replacement from: http://www.thesmithshop.com/magfollow.html
I should probably order a stainless spring and follower for my wife's Marlin 94 while I am at it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSBlCBhEhIg
Obviously a Rossi does not feed very well with a broken magazine spring. I am surprised that it worked as well as it did. I am please with how much easier my old Vaqueros are to cock since I swapped out the stock hammers for Super Blackhawk hammers. They are almost getting ahead of me now. I would like shorter barrels for my old Crescent rabbit ear
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One of our new shooters is looking at buying a Rossi in .454 and shooting .45LC in matches. His plan is to also use the .454 as a hunting rifle since it has just enough umph for what is hunting you here unlike maybe a straight .45LC.
Does anyone have any experience with how well the .454 Rossis perform in SASS matches firing .45LC?
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One of our new shooters is looking at buying a Rossi in .454 and shooting .45LC in matches. His plan is to also use the .454 as a hunting rifle since it has just enough umph for what is hunting you here unlike maybe a straight .45LC.
Does anyone have any experience with how well the .454 Rossis perform in SASS matches firing .45LC?
To be useful in SASS matches a .454 Casull-chambered rifle has to be reduced in velocity, as you know. The chamber in the .454 is longer than a .45 LC chamber. You can use .45 LC brass, just as you can use .44 Special brass in a .44 Magnum chamber, or a .38 Special in a .357 Magnum chamber, you need to clean the chamber pretty consistantly or you may have trouble chambering the longer brass. However, with a high pressure cartridge like the .454 (upwards of 40,000 psi), you may erode the chamber to the point where the .454 ammo may suffer extraction problems no matter how carefully you clean it. OTOH, if you attempt to reduce the loads using .454 brass, which is much thicker than .45LC, you won't get enough expansion from the brass to prevent blowy.
My reommendation would be to pass on the .454 and go for a .44 Magnum. Granted, that cartridge doesn't have quite the nockdown power of the .454, but if you are going after game bigger than a .44 Magnum will handle, you need a bigger round than the .454. Just MHO.
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One of our new shooters is looking at buying a Rossi in .454 and shooting .45LC in matches. His plan is to also use the .454 as a hunting rifle since it has just enough umph for what is hunting you here unlike maybe a straight .45LC.
Does anyone have any experience with how well the .454 Rossis perform in SASS matches firing .45LC?
I have a .454/.45. I do not shoot CAS but I do a lot of hunting/plinking/range time. I think this is the perfect gun. With .45 you can fire everything from light CAS to full bore LeverRevolution for hunting. Paco Kelly says that with the right load in .454 it will take any thin or thick skinned animal on Earth. I know it will drop a buck in his tracks. No tracking needed.
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Thank you all. I have gotten him a little more feedback including: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/466684/site_id/1
I am a little surprised to hear that the Rossi .454 is described as a good .45 LC shooter that just happens to also handle .454 when something needs hit harder. I was expecting to hear that it had problems feeding the shorter .45 LC.
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May need to get one in 454 ! ;D :D
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My Rossi was a nightmare last shoot. Just not feeding. When I took it apart for cleaning the stock magazine came out in three pieces despite me oiling it with each cleaning. :-\
Ordering a stainless replacement from: http://www.thesmithshop.com/magfollow.html
I should probably order a stainless spring and follower for my wife's Marlin 94 while I am at it.
I have gone through a frustrating spell of my Rossi not chambering correctly. It stove pipes, double feeds, fails to pick up, ... you name it. With the help of two gunsmiths we finally figured it out, sort of. It has become "picky" and does not like .452 as opposed to .454 or short rounds. It didn't care what I fed it for the first couple thousand rounds. I have heard that the short-stroke kit makes them very case length sensitive but I have not installed such a kit. Has anyone else had this trouble and have any other corrections? Regardless, it is working again and I have adjusted my reloading.
Oh yes, our new Rossi .454 shooter decided to have a baby so has hardly shown up to a shoot with it. >:( He does not reload and has been giving me a lot of brass so I loaded 100 rounds for him to try and lure him back this month.
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Step Right up Folks ... Here we are at Resurrection Junction!!
Greetings KARL!! How are ya??
WHAT SHORT STROKE KIT?? I don't mean to be snarky (yes I do) but there is NO short stroke kit for an 1892. There is no short stroking of an 1892. If someone suggests a "short stroke" for a 92 for you ..... politely walk away. Or say nasty things ... then walk away.
Your Rossi sound to me like it's suffering from being a Rossi. If it fed 454 before, it should feed 454 now, unless you have a problem with leading in the chamber. Your Rossi SHOULD run anything you feed it. Now for the litany > > > > >
Most Rossi need to have the extractor reduced to be lighter. Most Rossi need to have the Ejector Spring replaced with an after-market spring. Most Rossi need to have the Lever Latch spring reduced or replaced with after-market and the latch point rounded and polished.
Most Rossi need to have the Main Spring reduced or replaced with after-market. Those are the basics.
You state your rifle is stove piping and double feeding. You need to look at your right side cartridge guide. It may be worn. Also, most Rossi need the right side shimmed out to just kiss the side of the cartridge. That should stop the stove piping and double feeds. Failing to Pick Up is normally your fault by not running the lever fully forward. That error is normally because you are anticipating the other problems.
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I guess I lucked out with my pre-wing nut safety 44-40 Rossi SRC. I've only had it stove pipe once when I was very rough in chambering the first round. Had that happen with my b-92 s well.
Accuracy wise, I have taken seven grouse with this fall, all of them clean head shots.
I looked into getting the recommended springs but "Steve" does not ship north of the DMZ.
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I guess I lucked out with my pre-wing nut safety 44-40 Rossi SRC. I've only had it stove pipe once when I was very rough in chambering the first round. Had that happen with my b-92 s well.
Accuracy wise, I have taken seven grouse with this fall, all of them clean head shots.
I looked into getting the recommended springs but "Steve" does not ship north of the DMZ.
I am just a little too far away to help with the springs. What is the CAS scene like in BC?
My Rossi was a reliable workhorse too for thousands of rounds. I shoot almost exclusively black powder loads which might not be helping. It works well with store bought ammo and is more polished and oiled than new so I am almost tempted to trade up for a 66. Almost.
Coffinmaker - Shimming might just do the trick. I have been absent a while (lost my pass word).
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Karl
We didn't have much of a CAS season this year due to massive wildfires across the province. We partnered with another club to have a joint match that drew several SASS-enachs who were not impressed with our style of shooting. Some swore they would never return and we shed no years.
We have a split here in BC between the coastal and southern interior SASS-enachs and those of us who do not enjoy shooting at large targets at 7 and 10 yds. We enjoy the challenge of tougher targets and no one has ever shot our annual match clean.
Our SASS-enach guests would not engage in any of the side matches were accuracy and speed were required like a 'man-on-man' steel event, etc. When there was a tough bonus target in a stage, they would not even attempt it but rap off a quick shot in the general direction going for speed.
Our club enjoys shooting at smaller targets at longer distances like 'B' zones at 25 yds. We also have an event were we shoot at a SASS Cowboy at 100 yds in a speed & accuracy match. My wife wins this more often than not.
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My Rossi 1892 (.45/.454) is 7 years old. I replaced the safety and follower. I also gave the wood several coats of Danish Wood Oil. Otherwise it is stock. I use .45 most of the year and switch to .454 this time of the year for deer season. I have never had a problem with it functioning with either .45 or .454. I did not give it a smoothing/slicking job or futz with the springs. It works perfectly. It would not win any SASS competition as it can't cycle in a nanosecond.
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Karl n Coffinmaker
Intermittent feed problem with a Rossi 92?
I fixed a couple,of Rossis in our local club had this problem - both times it was a hang up with the function of the magazine cutoff - (that thingy attached to the front end of tha left side cartridge guide wot stops all the contents of the magazine from coming in the action at once) one gun was just gunk leftover from shipping fouling it - sometimes it would feed good then a jam - worked better for me than for the owner - I am a bit more vigorus wid the lever - sneakin up on a 92 - IS NOT - the way to get it to work good (all winchesters I reckon even my model 70 bolt gun runs better if you have at it like you mean it) - anyway a good dismantle and cleaning fixed that one - tother was hangin up the tip of the cutoff just kissing the barrel face - if ya look there is a little relief cutout to clear that (you guys know that one - Coffinmaker does fer sure) - so thats the first and easiest place to look fer an INTERMITTENT feed problem - I just take a little BRASS rod wid the action open and work that cutoff back n forth n if it dont function easy n sweet - pull the thing down and find out why - could be a busted spring, crud fouling the sides of the slot it goes back into when the bolt is closed - or at worst that little tip is hanging up on the barrel face --- both the aforesaid guns were running full lenghth ammo (stuff would jam a 73) if the loaded round is right level with the nose of the carrier the lifter can function with the cutoff jammed and ya get a jam under the lifter - short ammo if the cutoff sticks the next round comes in and fouls the lifter before it rises.
I would say in Karls case ammo is proly not the root cause of the problem - even though changing it might seem to fix things - a 92 should function without jamming on a variety of ammo length and nose shapes (NOT wadcutters tho)
Ps Coffinmaker - that 92 conversion I was working on a couple weeks back is done and working slick n smooth - waiting now on a new barrel to replace the worn ex 76 one that I built it around - now .........maybe I can find a clapped out 73 someplace with a totalled barrel cuz that ole one shoots good enough to keep it from the scrap heap
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92 firing pins
just a caution here - have replaced firing pin in two model 92's that came to me broken
The latest one was still functional but I discovered the break when I pulled it down for other purposes (converting 32/20 to 44/40)
Both broken right in the middle of the lever recess part - I have a theory here might save some folk a heap of trouble - I watch gunplumber videos on utube - shudder sometimes at what these guys do on occasion - I believe both these broken firing pins were caused by driving the lever pin back in with a punch and hammer - just like ALL the videos tell ya to do it - the firing pin can tilt a little sideways in the bolt and foul the pin as you reassemble - and if ya couple that with putting the FLAT end of the pin in first instead of the beveled end - then drive it with the hammer you end up trying to belt that pin through the thinnest part of the firing pin - it will pop out of the way and the pin will go in OR in the process the firing pin will flex up and crack OR -----ooooops we take it out and try again and it goes together ---
NO !!!!! NO a thousand times no - get rid of the hammer (Bubba says get a bigger hammer son - not this time Bubba - not this time)
That lever pin should go in easy - specially on a gun that has done some work -- yes you might need the hammer and punch to lightly tap it home once it is properly engaged --- think about this there is a lot of stuff to line up -- two holes in the bolt - two in the lever - a clearance recess on the firing pin above the lever pin and a clearance recess on the ejector barrel below the lever pin as well you have the ejector spring pushing back against it all --- hammering is gonna bust something !!! so put a pin punch in from the loading gate side and jiggle things into place while you push that pin in with your thumb - you will feel the bevelled end go past the firing pin body and through the second hole in the lever - on an older winchester I would expect to be able to push that pin all the way home with a flat end pin punch - just add a gentle little tap to be sure - Rossi or a new made gun is gonna be tighter but feel that thing go in still - dont force it !
The guys that take the time to read this proly been there done it a hundred times dont need to read - but if this your first or fifth time pulling down a 92 - pay attention ! maybe it helps
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Karl n Coffinmaker
Intermittent feed problem with a Rossi 92?
I fixed a couple,of Rossis in our local club had this problem - both times it was a hang up with the function of the magazine cutoff - (that thingy attached to the front end of the left side cartridge guide wot stops all the contents of the magazine from coming in the action at once) one gun was just gunk leftover from shipping fouling it - sometimes it would feed good then a jam - worked better for me than for the owner - I am a bit more vigorous with the lever - sneakin up on a 92 - IS NOT - the way to get it to work good (all winchesters I reckon even my model 70 bolt gun runs better if you have at it like you mean it) - anyway a good dismantle and cleaning fixed that one - together was hangin up the tip of the cutoff just kissing the barrel face - if ya look there is a little relief cutout to clear that (you guys know that one - Coffinmaker does fer sure) - so that's the first and easiest place to look fer an INTERMITTENT feed problem - I just take a little BRASS rod wid the action open and work that cutoff back n forth n if it don't function easy n sweet - pull the thing down and find out why - could be a busted spring, crud fouling the sides of the slot it goes back into when the bolt is closed - or at worst that little tip is hanging up on the barrel face --- both the aforesaid guns were running full length ammo (stuff would jam a 73) if the loaded round is right level with the nose of the carrier the lifter can function with the cutoff jammed and ya get a jam under the lifter - short ammo if the cutoff sticks the next round comes in and fouls the lifter before it rises.
I would say in Karl's case ammo is proly not the root cause of the problem - even though changing it might seem to fix things - a 92 should function without jamming on a variety of ammo length and nose shapes (NOT wadcutters tho)
Ps Coffinmaker - that 92 conversion I was working on a couple weeks back is done and working slick n smooth - waiting now on a new barrel to replace the worn ex 76 one that I built it around - now .........maybe I can find a clapped out 73 someplace with a totalled barrel cuz that ole one shoots good enough to keep it from the scrap heap
Thank you Greyhawk. What you described mostly matches what was happening. Where could I find a new magazine cutoff to buy? Would shimming work instead of a new part?
I did not mean to start reloading shorter .45 rounds. I must have just been twisting my die a little each time that I changed it. My old Vaqueros don't care what I feed them.
Trust me, I shoot my lever actions like I stole them so being too gentle is not part of the problem. My Rossi 92 does not mind wadcutters nearly as much as my wife's Marlin but I avoid wadcutters now just the same.
(http://api.ning.com/files/5kExwIHIhdbGjiwCccihHsJ9y6p*kJ8l-Vn0xZ1j0u-ZM1Mkl9S74MFUhQxnCab2SsAhbymEr9SFbhLUVknPfwYhCdACV*GR/matchlocksandfriends001.JPG)
Just to show what we are talking about here.
The firing pin advice is interesting. I may have found an antique Marlin for my lovely wife's Christmas present. The price is good and it is in .32 so SASS legal but has about as many broken parts as not. The firing pin dropped out in two pieces and Numrich is out of them. I am working with the seller to see it I can have a new one machined since it is a pretty simple part. The split magazine sleeve might be a little trickier to fix.
Her goal is to have all originals for her SASS kit. She has the S&W revolvers already and is looking for a shooter 20 ga damascus or the likes (she just found a surprisingly sweet little 16 ga damascus coach gun for $400. I am tired of learning to load more old ammo. :-\ This little coach gun is pretty and feels like someone tuned it for SASS a century ago.) The lengths that I go to to bribe my wife into coming out to shoots.
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I'm sure I've seen a 'short stroke kit' for those matchlocks .......
I've always thought it odd that there is no 'short stroke kit' offered for the '92, the rifle of Chuck Connors in "The Rifleman". I guess he and John Wayne found it acceptable as it was.
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I'm sure I've seen a 'short stroke kit' for those matchlocks .......
I've always thought it odd that there is no 'short stroke kit' offered for the '92, the rifle of Chuck Connors in "The Rifleman". I guess he and John Wayne found it acceptable as it was.
If it was do able there would be one already.....
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Thank you Greyhawk. What you described mostly matches what was happening. Where could I find a new magazine cutoff to buy? Would shimming work instead of a new part?
Karl heres what I would do for starters - make yourself two dummy rounds - feed em in then take a piece of brass 1/8th inch welding rod - might want to put a point on it or a flat tip like a screwdriver - open the action to the point the lifter is about to raise - now push the round off the carrier forward into the magazine - you can see the little cutoff thingy move aside to clear the round then pop back across to hold it - push the cutoff aside gently with your lil brass jigger and the round should pop back free onto the carrier and the cutoff stops the next one coming in - play this back and forth as long as it takes to be certain sure that cutoff is working free and easy on every round - you guys run hard so it has got to be right - spend some time doing this and it will either tell you one way or tother - if its not working right fix it - if all is well there ???? problem is someplace else - I dont reckon a 92 is near as sensitive to OAL of ammo as a toggle link gun.
Trust me, I shoot my lever actions like I stole them so being too gentle is not part of the problem.
way to go ! but when they jam its worse eh!
My Rossi 92 does not mind wadcutters nearly as much
I never ran wadcutters - but surprised that a 73 hates em worse than a 92 - woulda though that a toggle gun (or a marlin) with a straight feed wopulda had less trouble feeding em BUT I have had mainly winchesters with winchester rounds and that bit of bottle neck helps feeding .
The firing pin advice is interesting. I may have found an antique Marlin for my lovely wife's Christmas present. The price is good and it is in .32 so SASS legal but has about as many broken parts as not. The firing pin dropped out in two pieces and Numrich is out of them. I am working with the seller to see it I can have a new one machined since it is a pretty simple part. The split magazine sleeve might be a little trickier to fix.
Her goal is to have all originals for her SASS kit. She has the S&W revolvers already and is looking for a shooter 20 ga damascus or the likes (she just found a surprisingly sweet little 16 ga damascus coach gun for $400. I am tired of learning to load more old ammo. :-\ This little coach gun is pretty and feels like someone tuned it for SASS a century ago.) The lengths that I go to to bribe my wife into coming out to shoots.
worth the effort (bribery!)
I have took a couple pictures looking down into a couple 92's to demonstarte wot I am on about here - 38-40 stopper = this is my 32-20 conversion gun just finished building - 44-40 stopper = this old girl has been rebarrelled - its working - but see how the stopper is not come across as nicely as the other rifle - the front end of the cutoff is just scratching the barrel face - needs pulling down and a couple strokes with a file to fix it sos it can have clearance on the barrel face - have a good look at these two - the 38/40 is right and the 44/40 is functional but only just - third pic is lookin straight down into the innards - if a 92 is poppin rounds out the top of the action (do ya call that stovepiping?) look here --- the cartridge guides rearward of the grooves that clear the rim MUST be close enough that a factory case body can not clear - so a 32-20 has two little pimples opposite each other on the guides just behind the rim grooves and a pair of matching grooves in the bolt underlug - that case is too small to close the rails in - I sold my 357 rossi so I dont know how its handled in that calibre - if the case body can fit between those rails rearward of the rim groove then the lifter will flick the nose up and stick it out the top - this where ya might shim an old gun - just a few thou under the right side cartridge guide (never had to do that - but did have to refurbish a 32/20 one time that a guy had "polished up" - he emeryed those two little pimples off the guide rails - was fun putting them back on with the farm welder) ---- maybe this helps
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If it was do able there would be one already.....
"If'n it ain't broke - don't fix it!"
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Take away the short stroke kits and the 92 is just as fast as any rifle in the game .
And will handle hotter ammo for other things needed too.
Just sayin
Rooster
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Take away the short stroke kits and the 92 is just as fast as any rifle in the game .
And will handle hotter ammo for other things needed too.
Just sayin
Rooster
I been playin with 92's since I was a youngster (lets say 45years) I can do considerably and consistently better with my 66 (only had it 20 years) - no short stroke kit - the size and shape of the lever loop and trigger guard and trigger placement in the guard just seems to suit me better to run hard - in the end it will come down to what YOU feel most comfortable with
3 x 92's , 2 x 66's , 94, 71, 76
Agree on the hotter ammo - cant do THAT in a 66
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Greyhawk.
Bear with me. Which photo shows the Cut-Off in the wrong position? Top, middle or Top. The differences are slight. I have been wrestling my Rossi 92 for a month now and still have the problem of double feeding. I think I have eliminated the OAL, 1.58, so I'm desperate to find out if it's the magazine cut off issue.
G.
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Well, I went and traded for a Rossi 92 in .45 Colt today. 20" round barrel and a nicely stocked lil rifle. Can't bring the pup home til Saturday due to Illinois' 3 day wait. Decided on the .45 over the .44 because most on here said how the .45 fed well and sometimes the .44s didn't like the Specials as much. While my S&Ws are either in .38, .44 Special or .45 ACP, my Vaquero is in .45. Still on the look out for another revolver.
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I have a 92 in 454/45, it works flawlessly with either round. In 454, I used RNHP. For .45, LeveRevolution. I have taken white tail deer with both rounds. I replaced the rear sight and gave the wood several coats of Danish wood oil.
ETA: Perhaps mine feeds fine because I only use round nose ammo. I have never tried flat nose/wad cutter ammo.
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Greyhawk.
Bear with me. Which photo shows the Cut-Off in the wrong position? Top, middle or Top. The differences are slight. I have been wrestling my Rossi 92 for a month now and still have the problem of double feeding. I think I have eliminated the OAL, 1.58, so I'm desperate to find out if it's the magazine cut off issue.
G.
apologies for missing this question - you either fixed it or sold it by now - but answer is the middle picture - you can see that the little cutoff dohickey is not as far across as in the other rifle - the front point of that cutoff is just hanging up slightly on the barrel face (friend did a rebarrel for me and didnt spot this -the gun cycles and I guess in time it would wear in and work better)
Another problem I saw with a Rossi was the spring behind that cutoff got gunked up and stuck - different cause same result -
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Jeremiah, thanks for the tip. I load 250 grain rn for my Vaquero, plan on using the same for the Rossi. Now the fun part of finding a load they both like!
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Okay, first impressions on the .45 Rossi. Like my .357, it came with straight grain stained hardwood on the front and back, and seems a bit smoother than my .357 was when new. The .45's loading gate does NOT have the sharp edge like the .357 did, so I may not have to stone it like I did the other. The wood is definitely gonna get some stain, as that did a world of good when I did the .357. Looking forward to getting some rounds down range.
(https://i.imgur.com/phAIziA.jpg)
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Took the new Rossi .45 to the range today. A little stiff, but will smooth up with use. About 5 rounds to get the sights right and the 50 yard gong was a lot of fun with it. Ran perfectly. I like the little beastie.
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My Rossi definitely benefited with some careful smoothing and a replacement ejector spring.
CC Griff