Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BROW => Topic started by: Capt, Woodrow F. Call on January 13, 2006, 09:43:04 AM
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Howdys
I been thinking about bye a Sharps high wall 8), for long range shooting, but i'm not shure what kind of calibre who is the best to use ???, is there someone out here who can point me in the rigth directions when it comes to calibres. :)
( black powder loads only)
B.R
Smoke.
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As for an all-around caliber, it's hard to beat the venerable old 45-70. It will work from 0 to 1200+ yards with the correct components(powder, bullet etc.) If you specialize in some type of shooting, say silhouette, or long range(800-1000yds.) there are other calibers you may want to consider. If this is your first black powder rifle, the 45-70 would be my first choice for you. Hope this is of some help.
GW
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Listen to GW, he KNOWS of what he speaks.
As a side note: I think the "High Wall" you mention refers only to the 1885 Winchester single shot, not the Sharps.
As for caliber, I agree totally with GW. Go with 45-70 (aka: 45-70 Govt., 45-70-405, and a few other names. Sharps calls them 45-70-2 1/2" or something like that: it has to do with the length of the case.)
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technical question: what is the break even point on running your own lead? say that the molds, dies, melting pot costs are already absorbed by your budget. cost of lead is extra. dixie gun works wants 33 cents a bullet for a .54 sharps ringtail (shipping included). when does it become cheaper to do your own bullets or buy? thanks in advance. geo.
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I do believe the .45-70 is a .45 x 2.1" and the fact that an awful lot of folks have said .45-70 makes me think that there might be something to it. Pity, I like the idea of a .50-90 (but might not when it comes to shooting it a bunch).
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45-70= 2.1
45-90= 2.4
45-100( 110?)= 2.6
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Howdy.
Many thanks for the info, :D
I think i have to try out some few cal's before i desied,
i have allready tryed out 45-70, some years back ( for hunting), i loved it,
but in a Sharps rifle, from the history point of view, isn't 45-90 to 120 most used calibre... ??? i'm most in to history when i gone get me this sharps, down to originale cal's and shapes.
B.R
Smokey Lonesome.
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I'm no expert on buffalo rifle lore, but I believe the "long" .45's (-110, -120, etc.) weren't produced untill rather late in the buffalo era, and then not in Sharps factory rifles. The most popular early cartridges were the .50-70 (the common military round of the late 1860's up till the introduction of the .45-70) and the .44-77, which I believe was the original Sharps chambering. The .50-90 was in there too. There is some debate as to whether the term "Sharps Big Fifty" referred to the .50-90 or the .50-70, but in either case, I'll admit a 600-grain, half-inch chunk of lead is plenty big, no matter how much powder is behind it.
"Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" is good reference book for the various calibers and chamberings available, as well as sights and various Sharps rifle models.
The advice you have received from the others is the same as what I got when I asked - The .45-70 is extremely versatile, whether you want to hunt or target shoot. Ammunition, reloading tools, components and load data is plentiful and cheap, and available nearly anywhere. If you later want more bang, you can easily have the chamber lengthened to 45-90 or longer.
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No 45's were produced till 1876. The 45-2.1, the 45-2.4 the 45-2.6 and the 45-2 7/8 all came about the same time. the 45-3 1/4 is the 1885 round that Sharps did not produce.
The 44-77 and 50-70 are most likely the most common.
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While we're on the subject of Sharps rifles. What is the difference between the Shiloh and the Italian imports (other than price)? I like the looks of the Piedersoli "Billy Dixon" in either .45-90 or .50-90 (a glutton for punishment perhaps), but was wondering if the Shiloh was so much better, I'd be better off getting that one.
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I have several Shiloh Sharps rifles. In my opinion Shiloh makes the best Sharps rifles ever made.
In another post it was said Sharps did not have a High Wall. C. Sharps does make a High Wall along with their model 74 and 75 Sharps rifles.
Bounty Bill
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it's gone be 45-70, 8) if i understand it rigth, was the original calibre in the west. :)
B.R
Smoke
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Timex - Rolex. That I understand as I still have my Rolex that I bought new in 1968 for $185 and it still works just fine. The Timex I had new in 1971 for $15 was history a long long time ago.
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Ed Clintwood & Capt. Call
Take a look at Shiloh Sharps web site shilohrifle.com you will not find a better rifle. The people at Shiloh are also the best you will ever deal with. The price of a Shiloh and the Italian made rifles now days is not that far apart. What is far apart is the quality, service and resale value. If you look at a Shiloh Sharps, hold it and shoot it you will be sold on what I am talking about. There are other Sharps that are good but not GREAT.
Bounty Bill
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Well I ordered a Shiloh .45-90 and it'll be done in oh 16-18 MONTHS. Maybe I'll get an Eyetalian one just to hold me over.
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Howdy.
It was amazing good video, of making the Shiloh Sharps, you have made my choice Bounty Bill, and the best part is, It is American made,........... can it be better.........NO 8)
Many Thanks.
BR
Capt W F. Call
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Ed: I ordered a Shiloh several weeks ago, so I'll be getting mine in the spring of 2007 along with you. My initial order was for an early Hartford with military butt in .50-70. I'll probably change my order before all is said and done to a shotgun butt and some other caliber, But when I initially ordered I wanted to come as close in configuration as possible to what was really used on the early buffalo ranges, as I am interested in the period around 1874 and the summer of the fight at Adobe Walls. So .50-70, .44-77 or .50-90 would be most correct, and the military butt as well.
In the meantime, I have a parts Trapdoor to shoot, and may have Dave Crossno build me a rolling block with the No. 1 smokeless action I have on hand. If I did not have these options, I would be another Pedersoli Sharps in a heartbeat, as their barrels will shoot with anybody's. I would not dream of buying any other of the Italian Sharps.
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OB,
I was wondering the web and I found the C. Sharps site and had been thinking of one of the .40 caliber guns. Gave the man a call and we talked a bit, I wound up ordering a .40-70 straight in a Hi-Wall. I was told I could have it in a couple-three months. Now to find a decent long range, range in SE Michigan to shoot it >:( If anyone out there knows of a range (public) PLEASE let me know, I have googled, checked the NRA web site the best I've found is 300 yard Private club, the directions on their web site sent me to a dead end street.
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Ed Clintwood,
On another post you said you ordered a Shiloh Sharps 45/90. You also say you ordered a C. Sharps High Wall 40/70. It appears you have two rifles coming, great idea. Both are good rifles.
Bounty Bill
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Bounty Bill,
I got the invoices yesterday. The Shiloh will be here when it gets here, sometime in 2007, the C. Sharps Hi-Wall will be in 90 days or thereabouts. It does give me a little more time to get the wife used to what I truly "need" ;D, and being a year apart it's not like I just went out and spent a ton of money all at once ya know.
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Message for Capt. Call: If you want to talk long range shot`n and Sharp rifles or Even 1885 Winchester High Wall, or if you got a strong itch to try some of them out and dont mind a bit of driving please call me: 91631880.
We do live in the same country not to far away.
At first I was a bit confused, but I do belief Steel Horse set it straight, there is a difference between a Sharps and a High Wall.
I`ve shot Sharps 45-70`s a 40-65 for years, they are bouth sold, now I have a itch for a Low Wall 38-55.
My old rifles are still in the same club, so for you trying some of them is not a problem. The local shoot`n posse will be at the shoot`n range most of Easter, so if you got the itch strong enough call me or send me an E-message.
Best Regards
Snapshot SWS#296
Glomma River Honkey Tonkers aka Wolf Valley Rangers #1
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Just my 2 cents worth on this. I've shot against Pedersoli Sharps in BPCR Silhouette, and they'll shoot as well as any Shiloh or C Sharps. My personal rifle is a C Sharps Highwall in .40-65. The Shiloh and C Sharps are much better looking guns and to many, including me, the added pride of ownership is worth the cost. C Sharps is just as good a fit and finish as Shiloh. The owner of C Sharps and the Original (not present) owner of Shiloh were partners that couldn't get along. The owner of C Sharps can be a bit "prickly" at times while the owners of Shiloh are always bend over backwards friendly. Thats why more are lined up waiting on Shiloh even though the C Sharps rifle is just as nice. Stay away from Armi Sport made Sharps rifles.
Best caliber for Silhouette is a 40, like 40-65 or 40-70 SS (I don't recommend bottlenecks unless you're a masochist). Best long range (800-1000 yds) is probably 45-100 (45 x 2.6). Best compromize target for both is .45-90. Best huntiing cartridges are probably the .50-70 and .50-90. Best do it all compromize is probably the .45-70. Pick your game. There's horses for courses.
The longest .45 produced by sharps was the .45-110 (.45 x 2-7/8") (remember Quigley). Original Sharps rifles have been found re-chambered for the longer .45 and .50 caliber cartridges after Sharps closed it's doors.
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For what it is worth, I have look at all of the Sharps on the market. IMHO Shiloh Sharps is a cut above all others. Fit and finnish and service #1. I own 5 Shiloh Sharps 2 in 45-70, 2 in 45-90 and 1 in 45-110. I love them all. Just hold one and it will sell it self.
Mogollon Mike
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This has made for very interesting reading. Someday, I hope to have one of the higher grade Sharps. Meanwhile, I am considering an IAB (Pederini?) carbine and the Pedersoli variants. The IAB is less than $700. The Pedersolis are a bit more. Does anyone have any thoughts on the IAB just as a "plinker" (100 yds or less)?
BvH
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I would steer clear of the IAB. If you go Italian, stick to the Pedersoli. It's worth the extra bucks. Pedesoli is the only Italian Sharps I've ever seen in a competitor's hands. I've read numerous bad reports in the past on line of the IAB. I've handled them and was not favorably impressed. I bought a Pedersoli Sharps as a second silhouette rifle, since I'd seen many used successfully in competition. I eneded up working in Saudi Arabia, and still haven't fired a shot through it I had it re-chambered from 40-65 to 40-82 by Lone Star Rifle Works because I hoped to use it once in a while at ranges beyond 600 yards. Standard 40-65 is ideal for regular silhouette. Ballistic like a 45-70 up to 500 meters (rams) but less recoil over the 50 to 60 shots it takes to complete the 40 record shot match.