Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: Boone May on September 23, 2022, 10:56:36 PM
-
I know Herbert Houze's Model 1876 is rare and expensive. I found this online article written by Houze which covers some of the key material regarding the early development that developed into the 1876 rifle. I hope this will be helpful.
https://www.ssusa.org/content/the-winchester-1876-centennial-rifle/
-
Thanks! That pieces together some of the jumbled information I've been hearing for some time.
Griff
-
And here is one of those prototype Winchesters sold by Rock Island Auction for $28,000 in 2016:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/68/1025/winchester-prototype-rifle-455
-
I really enjoyed that article. So, according to Mr. Houze, 22" round barreled sporting rifles were the most common .50-95 variant? and less than 4,000 .50s made total? I sure would love to see more detail on the numbers.
-
I really enjoyed that article. So, according to Mr. Houze, 22" round barreled sporting rifles were the most common .50-95 variant? and less than 4,000 .50s made total? I sure would love to see more detail on the numbers.
I have seen far more octagon barreled standard length barreled 50 95's than anything else. Probably 50% I have seen also have british proofs. Americans didn't care for the big fifty for some reason, the brits took them to africa and india for soft skinned dangerous game...tigers and such. I don't know why the americans turned up their nose. I like them real well.
-
Just having a think on this.... There were probably more 50 95's made in the past 15 years than all of the original production of 50 95's in the last quarter of the 19th century.
-
I have an 1876 Express rifle that was shipped to Burkhard Sporting Goods in St Paul, Minnesota in September, 1882. It was returned to Winchester in December, 1882. Shipped out again to an unknown location in July, 1883.
Letter doesn't give any more information but one can presume it was unsold by Burkhard. Or maybe it was just on loan for a sales promotion?
It is a standard 26 inch octagon barrel. Collectors refer to these as the American version as opposed to the British version with short 22 inch barrel.
Houze says the Express rifle had good sales over the years in its limited market.
-
I have an 1876 Express rifle that was shipped to Burkhard Sporting Goods in St Paul, Minnesota in September, 1882. It was returned to Winchester in December, 1882. Shipped out again to an unknown location in July, 1883.
Letter doesn't give any more information but one can presume it was unsold by Burkhard. Or maybe it was just on loan for a sales promotion?
It is a standard 26 inch octagon barrel. Collectors refer to these as the American version as opposed to the British version with short 22 inch barrel.
Houze says the Express rifle had good sales over the years in its limited market.
That is an AMASING looking rifle! Thanks for the photo!
Griff
-
I know this is old news to most here but it’s fascinating to me! I would really like to know more about that .455 cartridge and in fact ALL of the cartridge development for the 1876….how the heck did they draw brass back then????? ???
-
I got that book for Christmas this year! ;D
-
I know this is old news to most here but it’s fascinating to me! I would really like to know more about that .455 cartridge and in fact ALL of the cartridge development for the 1876….how the heck did they draw brass back then????? ???
I don't claim any expertise on these old cartridges but the .45-75 was supposedly developed from what some collectors now call the .46 OFW (Oliver F. Winchester). It has a heel base bullet with exposed lube rings, sort of like a Henry rim fire 44. The primer is supposed to have the dent in it.
-
A question to be asked is why the '76 was never chambered for the .45-70 Gov't round. What I have heard repeatedly is that the toggle-link action could not handle the .45-70-405, or the government round was too long for the action. Whatever the case, Winchester requested of John Moses Browning, inventor of the single-shot HiWall, if he could come up with a rifle action that could handle the .45-70 and the 2.4" cartridges like the .45-2.4 Sharps Straight (which became the .45-90 WCF). The latter rifle may have saved Winchester's bacon because of the Marlin M1884 (I'm not sure of the exact designation). The M1886 easily transitioned into the smokeless powder age, chambered for the .33 WCF, and, with some slight modifications the M71 in .348 WCF.
-
Trailrider, this is all covered in Houze's book. Winchester developed an experimental Model 1878 rifle in .45-70 and submitted it to the 1878 army small arms trials. It worked well but was not adopted for further use. The Model 1878 receiver is in the Cody Firearms museum collection now. It looks like a slightly longer Model 1876 action.
-
The Marlin 1881 in 45-70 was the successful competitor.
kw
-
Trailrider, this is all covered in Houze's book. Winchester developed an experimental Model 1878 rifle in .45-70 and submitted it to the 1878 army small arms trials. It worked well but was not adopted for further use. The Model 1878 receiver is in the Cody Firearms museum collection now. It looks like a slightly longer Model 1876 action.
Apparently, the point of the main '76 not being long enough to handle the .45-70 is made by that 78 prototype. The longer action would probably have made the lever throw uncomfortably long. While the Marlin did precede the Winchester '86, the latter was a much better action (at least IMHO).
-
I have an 1881 marlin I'm pretty happy with. It is a 40-65 with .410 grooves but a tight neck at .406. I shoot black powder and 20 to 1 lead and it punches up fine. It's a fully serviceable rifle but probably an inferior gun to the 86, but things were changing rapidly in that time period.
-
The Marlin 1881 in 45-70 was the successful competitor.
kw
It was the Winchester Hotchkiss bolt action rifle was adopted for field trials by the Ordnance board of 1878. The Marlin Model 1881 wasn't invented yet! Some Marlin Model 1881's were known to have been purchased by officers and soldiers but to my knowledge the arm was never adopted by the army for issue in the field.
There is an interesting article called "Marlins in the Apache Wars" in the number four 1996 issue of "Man At Arms" magazine. At least two were used as private purchase arms by soldiers during the 1881-82 Apache campaign.
Chief of Apache scouts Al Sieber was known to carry a Winchester Model 1876 rifle and apparently used it at the July 17, 1882 battle of Big Dry Wash. It was a .45-75 and he was reported to have killed five Apaches with it. Cartridge case findings later showed his firing positions.