Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Longbranch => Topic started by: Virgil Lantey on April 10, 2022, 08:21:16 PM
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...and that's a damn shame. So many great boards and topics, I'd of thought it would be a whirling dirvish of conversation. Oh well, I'm partial to ghost towns! I was just about to respond to a post on another board until I realized it was from 2018!
Is this a sign of things to come in the sport of cowboy action shooting? I've heard that SASS membership is dwindling at a rapid pace. Me? I just joined NCOWS, but I'm 60+ years old.
Maybe this topic will get some conversation going. If not, I've been known to talk to myself anyway!
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I still haunt CAS City (or CAS Ghost Town). I also like frankinthreads, so I'd say go ahead and comment.
Griff
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Will do Griff! Maybe exhuming the bodies of a dead thread might get some interest going...or not, who knows.
I pretty much have to do my own thing anyway. Like I said, I just joined NCOWS but the nearest posse is 1200 miles away. It did, however, renew my interest in studying some western history.
We have a very small SASS club here but SASS and I don't see eye to eye so my membership only lasted about a month.
There's a lot of content on Cas City and I can occupy some time by reading old threads, but I still find the lack of participation an interesting dynamic.
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I'm 71 years old. Been a member of NCOWS for a few years now, but before I joined, I knew basically nothing about guns other than how to load one and then pull the trigger, so if a few old threads get revived, they might just be all brand new to me.
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...and that's a damn shame. So many great boards and topics, I'd of thought it would be a whirling dirvish of conversation. Oh well, I'm partial to ghost towns! I was just about to respond to a post on another board until I realized it was from 2018!
Is this a sign of things to come in the sport of cowboy action shooting? I've heard that SASS membership is dwindling at a rapid pace. Me? I just joined NCOWS, but I'm 60+ years old.
Maybe this topic will get some conversation going. If not, I've been known to talk to myself anyway!
It's getting pretty expensive to get started in this game now. Also I have noticed that the cowboy spirit is diminishing bit by bit and moving more towards IPSIC in cowboy clothes. Targets getting closer all the time. There is nothing old west cowboy when a shooter can fire 24 rounds from 4 different guns in under 15 seconds and shoot clean. Just my thoughts.
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I agree completely, Law Dog! I wasn't around when SASS started but I'm pretty certain that it has evolved into something it wasn't.
I once suggested on a public forum that a shooting class for folks that only have two guns might attract some new members but I was quickly told to "shut the (blank) up", so some people are perfectly happy with what the organization has evolved into. Just not my cup o' tea.
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Hplummer,
You're at the North end of the inter mountain West while I'm at the South end, none the less we are in similar circumstances.
I gave up SASS around 1995 when the targets got bigger and closer, and they always complained about my full power BP loads being too hot. I joined NCOWS a couple years ago to support them but the closest Posse is in the political waste land of California, where I will not go with firearms in my possession. I'm too old and busted up to shoot a match anyway but I'd still like to have the choice.
My interest has always been historical and my passion is shooting black powder cartridge guns of the era (post Civil War, trans Mississippi West) with ammunition that duplicates the performance of the originals. CASCity has several forums that are focused on topics I can't find being discussed much any where else so I'm sticking around and even send them (CASCity) some money occasionally. (smile)
My advice is to find the related forum to what you are interested in and start you own post, just as you did with this one. Either ask a question or describe your own experience with you own equipment. Generally folks with respond with either information or questions of their own.
In the mean time, keep your head down and your powder dry,
Dave
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This is a copy of an article on what CAS had become:
What has CAS become.
CAS has evolved a long way from what it was when I started the Motherlode Shootist Society in 1994! Evolution can be a good thing, but it can also be NOT SO GOOD! I know we all long for the "good old days," but I am afraid they are gone forever, just like my hair!
Back in 1994 (and even later), We shot the mayor's chickens, rode barrel chested hosses (55-gal drum type<g>), tossing dynamite, saying cute lines, going through batwing doors of a saloon front, dealing cards, etc. Scenarios had a story to be acted out which was read before... "You are sleeping on the range when you are awakened by rustlers..." We ALL worried more about spirit of the game than how fast we shot. People showed up early and helped set up and stayed to help take down.
Now we are very close to being IPSC or action three-gun match in cowboy boots. We are over-run with mouse fart loads, 4th gen short stroke kits, lightning rod firing pins, huge close targets, and a holster either side of the belt buckle, just barely! Top shooters sound like an M16 with a 66 in 38 with short strokes. If the target is 2 ft by 3 ft at 10 yards, that's OK but what if the targets were half-head sized at 35-40 yards, peeking around a tree? The Henry Big Boy looks like nothing ever used in the old west, unless maybe you took four different guns and made one, but you can't use a Spencer-Bannerman shotgun.
Even the guns we use now. Gosh, I started with a used Rossi 92 (65) in 44-40, a used Rossi coach gun, a Dakota, and a used 1875 Remington. I had about $750-800 in the lot. Hard to do that now. I wish I still had the 44-40 Rossi, too!
At a match last year, I had a posse member pissed because I was so slow shooting a 56-50 Spencer as a main match rifle and using a hammer double, both with BP loads. He wasn't the only one to tell me to hurry up. Yeah, you could time me with a sundial, so what? That was October of last year. Coincidently, that was the last match I went to! I remember when a Sunday Match took mostly of the day for 4 or 5 stages. Now you can finish 5 or 6 in two to three hours!
Tex opined a while back, "have we become what we hate?" I reserved judgment back then, but I think we have. The fun I had at the match used to be more than worth the aggravation of a 1 1/2-to-2-hour drive to shoot and the three hours cleaning up my BP guns. Now it is mostly strange faces all concerned with being gamers. Even the old-time gamers are gone.
I first started CAS back in around 1997 after having seen an article in Gums and Ammo about End of Trail. I went out and got a .45 Colt SAA and thought I was ready! Luckily my handspring broke in the SAA, my mother came from Wisconsin to California to see me for a week, so I got to realize how unprepared I really was! I used the year to get my act together and get my gear together and made my first EOT in 1990 at Coto De Caza. I found out about the Spirit of The Game, and the friendships you develop at matches.
I met and made a long-time friend of a mine know as Southpaw (SASS #57) who taught me a lot about the whole Spirit of The Game and kept me from many oops’s at my first EOT. (By the way I’m RussT. Chambers SASS #262).
I moved from Southern California to Reno NV and helped start a club here based on the same principles of “Be Safe and Have Fun” we did the scenarios with the story lines, extra actions (throwing a lasso, tossing an axe, shooting a bow and arrow, etc.) Then a new regime to over and now it’s “Stand and Deliver”! No or little movement and shoot as fast as you can!!
Haven’t been to a match since 2012. Too bad, I really enjoyed the 22 plus years I had in the sport, but as they say “Things change, and not always for the best!”
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NCOWS is still one rifle and one six shooter to get started. 2 pistols if you want to, a pocket pistol if that interests you, and a shotgun if so desired. Most folks are happy with just a rifle and a 6 shooter.
Our targets range from easy at about 15 yards for a handgun, and on up to about 80 yards for the rifle. A more or less life sized replica of a coyote is at 80 yards. Other coyote sized targets are closer, but hiding in shadows and weeds.
Shoot black powder if you want, or smokeless. We don't care.
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Yes, I just joined NCOWS, and if their rulebook (the Tally Book) is any indication, they have stayed true to the spirit of the game. I think what Russ T Chambers is describing specifically applies to SASS.
The Tally Book is available online and I would invite anyone interested to give it a read.
Since SASS is a "for profit" corporation they are more than willing to change the rules to maintain membership dollars.
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It's getting pretty expensive to get started in this game now. Also I have noticed that the cowboy spirit is diminishing bit by bit and moving more towards IPSIC in cowboy clothes. Targets getting closer all the time. There is nothing old west cowboy when a shooter can fire 24 rounds from 4 different guns in under 15 seconds and shoot clean. Just my thoughts.
Exactly why I quit shooting SASS. I got tired of being hit with splatter, and short stroking everything. They turned it into a speed game, and I particularly, do not care for that.
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...I gave up SASS around 1995 when the targets got bigger and closer, and they always complained about my full power BP loads being too hot. ...
I don't know what you call big and close, or maybe Texas was just late getting to big and close. When I started in '99, it took me over 80 matches before I shot my first clean match. Over 80 more before my second clean match. But then they slowly started moving closer. Now I shoot clean or 1 miss about half the time. Yes, the game changed from accuracy to speed. But I'm still shooting every weekend and still having fun. I even short-stroked one of my rifles. Shooting is still more fun than not shooting. And shooting cowboy guns is still more fun than modern guns.
As far as trying to relate this to the "old west", sure rifle targets are way closer than people normally would need a rifle for back then, but if you think about it most of the pistol fights were "up close and personal". Maybe I'm just easy to please, or easy to adapt, but I'm very happy that I still have clubs I can shoot at within an hour (one is 1.5 hrs) every weekend.
Nearest NCOWS to me is about 5 hours which is not bad, but my caregiver duties keep my close to home so I haven't made it there yet though I do look forward to it.
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I finally quit sass this year and didn’t renew my membership. Haven’t been to a state or regional in a very long time. After watching the relocated EOT shoot last year I was flabbergasted. A waste of ammo, target's way too close and way too big. Whats the point. I still belong to and shoot at ECSASS in Dare Co every month. A fine little club with great people. We are SASS and WASA, do WB, BAMM, 2 inch DAs AND shoot CAS even if we’re doing something else. Russ T. hit the nail on the head. Sadly nothing lasts forever.
Would love to do a skirmish with the GAF but they are so far away. Got the outfits and the guns.
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:) GIMMIE A BREAK :)
So much Sniveling, Hand Wringing and Poor Me. CAS has never been an inexpensive game to play. When equipment was cheaper, pay checks were smaller. Relativity strikes again. Sure, there has been gravitation to bigger closer targets. Make 'em bigger and easier to hit and you get more happy campers!! And oh, by the way, this has ALWAYS been a speed game. The game started with stopwatches for pete's sake and then went to electronic timers. There have ALWAYS been fast shooters. ALWAYS. BIG AND CLOSE also benefits the newer or less skilled players. More KLANG for the Buck. SAS is selling entertainment or have you all been sleep for the past 30 years. Entertainment!! If players aren't entertained, they don't come back to play. More KLANG for the BANG is what keeps them coming back.
Don't like where CAS and SASS have gone and are going?? OK. I'll buy that. Try and remember however, CAS and SASS have never been reenactment nor historical reproduction of "The Way it Was." Not happy?? Not Having fun?? OK. Then GO HOME. I always end my Safety Briefings with "If Your Not Going To Have Fun - THEN GO HOME." Don't just hang around sniveling in your coffee about how it use to be 'cause it ain't gonna go back any time soon.
Get Over Yourself
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Accuracy and speed usually do not go hand in hand. Do you want to hit the targets? Or do you want to turn in the best time?
I've been entertaining the thought of just shooting at the targets as fast as possible whether I actually hit them or not and taking the 5 second penalty for every miss. I honestly think I would get a better score than if I carefully aim and actually hit the targets, but THAT would not be as much fun.
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Have fun... ...OR ELSE!!! >:( >:(
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I shot the NCOWS Regional Gunfire In The Hills match up in Wisconsin earlier this summer. Great range and nice people.
They are a dual membership range, a bit heavier on SASS philosophy.
Partly due to the inherent restrictions of how their range is set up, around the perimeter of a modest box canyon, the depth available to set targets is limited. Targets tended to be close, and my recollection is fairly uniform at around 20" in size, whether square or round.
So I will admit that for this match I indulged in the guilty pleasure of practicing my point shooting at speed, rather than careful use of sights. And I had fun.
Finished with a decent time and one miss.
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Going to have to respectfully disagree with you Coffinmaker. This thing called cas was once whatever the shooter wanted it to be. Playing cowboys and indians, a military re-enactment, a chance to shoot antique guns with black powder and then a chance to shoot identical reproductions of antique guns with smokeless thanks to the Italians, 1860s to 1950s dress up time so you can look like an extra in a John Ford movie or tv show and of course the guys who wanted to win but not really wanted to play the game. Unfortunately we aren’t satisfied with just allowing any and every gun mod we have to mess with the targets. Closer is easier, bigger is even easier. But let me ask has the size of clay pigeons gotten bigger? Are cardboard ipsc targets bigger? Are the 1000 yard targets at Camp Perry moved to 500 yds now? Is the cup on golf courses 1 foot in diameter? A shooting sport should have some sort of a standard of targets and ranges not just a vague suggestion, not just more clang for your buck so the poor shots will invest scads of money in upgraded equipment, sass memberships and participate. That EOT that l watched in Indiana was geared to the lowest denominator accuracy wise with speed being the only thing that mattered.
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Some of the clubs around here do have something to offer those who want more of a challenge. It is called Sharpshooter category. They shoot their pistols at the rifle targets, and the rifles at the Cody-Dixon targets (average 40-70 yards) on every stage.
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One set of rifle targets at the range where I shoot consists of three hanging targets, none of them very big, but the smallest is difficult to see because the front sight of the rifle pretty much obscures it. It is surprising that most of us can actually hit that target. Even double tap it, and no, I don't hit it every time.
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We have a group of shooters who come from Virginia to play with us at ECSASS. Nice guys but they initially complained that our rifle targets were too far so the MD said no problem. Next shoot the targets were closer but only half size marshals. They keep coming back so they must like what we do and are able to shoot. They kick my butt every month. Heres the ringleader. He lost a bet but ain’t she cute.
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:) SO, BALTIMORE ;)
CAS is still much as you describe. We still dress like yesteryear. We still shoot our Black Powder guns. We still shoot our Italian built reproductions. With and without Black Powder. Everyone who play the game, as it is, don't shoot every match or stage clean. When you play, you don't have to go fast. No requirement that you must go fast. It is important to find some fun. I personally don't win matches anymore. I've gotten old and deliberate. But I still have a lot of FUN. So long as I can still find fun, I will continue play. Find the fun aspects and let the Young and the Restless worry about going fast.
You don't like the way CAS has changed. OK. If YOU elect not to play the GAME the way it is today, that's YOUR choice. Go Home. It's that simple. Haranguing everyone else because it's not YOUR game is just silly.
Most of the other shooting games still play their respective games the same old way they have always played 'em. I don't see our local Sportsman's Club overrun with Skeet and Trap shooters anymore either. Tell a bunch of NSSA Skeet shooters the match is going to be Continental rules and hear the protests. IPSC and Like activities are also not over run with competitive mobs at all. The different disciplines are "different." To compare the CAS game with those other games is ludicrous. Completely different premise. Get over it.
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I’ve been over it for a while. Covld and the shortages have just made me more over it. I do my cas club and a 2 gun .22 zsa shoot monthly, in fact I’ll shoot it Sunday. My comparisons were to point out that other sports, shooting and non shooting did not feel the need to make their game easier for their competitors. That’s all. It’s all about having fun with a gun or a couple of guns. But going to cas state shoots and regionals were fun too. The great people were a big part. But things change. Got over it. Have a good one.
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I guess it is somewhat on subject to mention what the rest of the world thinks about the current big/close norm. For some unknown reason (well, Red Dead Redemption and gamers had something to do with it) a couple of my youtube Shorts went viral so now I'm getting large numbers of viewers from around the world for almost any Short I post. Most are from countries that do not have organized shooting sports. The majority of the comments are in other languages and I've had Google translate a few but there are thousands so I ignore most! A large percentage are laughing at how close the targets are. And many comments are about wimpy loads, and certainly there is something to that but cellphone camera audio clamps down on the sound level which doesn't help. But then there are also plenty of comments are like, wow, great shooting, this looks like so much fun! ;D I'm going to enjoy myself regardless, but it is easy to see how some folks are laughing at it.