Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gunsmithing => Topic started by: PoindexterG on March 27, 2021, 09:00:53 AM
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I bought a new Uberti 1858 New Model Army in stainless. It functioned well when I shot it the first time. I decided to do a disassembly, mainly to familiarize myself with the firearm. Something happened at this point. It's not quite right now that I have it back together. It doesn't always index to the nipple/cap when you cock it. You have to turn the cylinder a bit to get it to lock. It still locks very solidly, it just doesn't go to the spot on it's own all of the time. It seems a bit better if you cock slowly, or pause at half and then go to full. The cylinder seems to spin a bit too freely at half cock. It seemed to really only advance one click at a time when you spun it, originally. Now it spins fairly freely, more like a modern swing out cylinder. If I put my hand on the cylinder and put some pressure on it, it seems to always cock properly.
I suspect that whatever is making it spin that easily is the issue. I'm just not sure where to proceed. I've got a new hand, and also got a new trigger/bolt spring. Those do not seem to help. I haven't tried a new bolt yet, or a new cylinder. I'd be willing to get another cylinder, I just want to know that there's a decent chance of it solving the issue.
I don't know if it was mis-assembly, me breaking/bending something, or the former leading to the latter.
Here's a video of what's going on so that you can see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZmdIpySOws&ab_channel=PoindexterG (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZmdIpySOws&ab_channel=PoindexterG)
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Wow! Now that’s the way to ask a question!
I’ll let the more articulate guide you.
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I wanted to make sure that there was enough info. I know it can be hard to troubleshoot things without being able to actually see them, so I tried to get it all on video.
I'm frustrated because I know that I broke it. It was fine before disassembly, and I've only taken it out once before I messed it up. I've taken other guns apart before, and the worst I've ever done is manage to lose a tiny spring and have to buy a new one. I'm not a gunsmith and have no training in this area. But I've always managed this sort of thing fine. This is the first time I've messed up to the extent that I couldn't figure it out on my own.
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One thing on the video, shouldn't lower the hammer down from half-cock without pulling it back to cock and then lowering the hammer. Otherwise the bolt may not drop completely out of the way and cause that scoring around the cylinder you pointed out.
It wasn't clear whether you had replaced the hand, - if you had it may be a tad too long and need to be dressed back to prevent it from over indexing?
I doubt if the cylinder is at fault, so I wouldn't think there's a need to replace it. Especially since it was working well before. It did not appear to have excessively free spin from the video when on half cock. My suspicion is that when disassembled, you cleaned the cylinder arbor and slot and oiled it, hence smoother rotation. When at half cock, nothing engages the cylinder so it is free to spin against hand. Is it possible the hand spring got compressed a bit and isn't giving positive force to engage the cylinder hand notches fully?
If your tinkering has not corrected the problem, turn it over to a gunsmith to look at before spending money on parts. He/she will better determine whether you need replacement parts, and which ones.
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I had tried a new hand and spring. That was something I had trouble getting out, so I thought I may have bent it out of shape. I’ll compare the hands and see how the new one looks compared to the other.
The spin may not be an issue then. It just looked a very different to me, so I thought it worth a mention. I may have to find a gunsmith, but was hoping I could figure it out.
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During the video you pointed out the early damage to the bolt notches in the cylinder. You also had to turn the cylinder BACKWARD when it didn't lock up. That indicates the bolt head may not be dropping all the way into the notch, allowing the cylinder to rotate too far. I just bought two new Uberti 58 Remingtons last week. Before I cocked the guns even once, one of the first things I did was remove the cylinder, disassemble the gun and with the bolt in my hand tested to see if the bolt head fit all the locking notches in the cylinder. It did not. Two of the notches were slightly smaller than the rest on both guns, which means the bolt head has to be fitted to the smallest notches. Funny you also had trouble with two in the video. Your cylinder does not appear to be badly damaged and should still be serviceable. If you are unfamiliar with fitting the bolt it would be better to seek help.
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It's mainly weird that it had no issues before I took it apart, so it's surely something that I did.
Someone on Reddit pointed me to a source with good pictures of all the steps in getting it reassembled properly. It shows the proper orientation for everything, and what all the parts should look like. I'm gonna tear it down and do one last reassembly according to that. If I still have problems at that point, it's very likely gunsmith time, unless some one else on the webs gives me a magic fix.
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I'm with River City John on the hand spring being bent so it is closer to the hand and not giving the tension needed. The hand and spring is the brake to keep the cylinder from over rotating when cocked. Often a weak or cracked bolt spring is involved, but that seems less likely to me from your description. When you insert the hand into the bottom of the action, you may have to compress the spring to allow it to enter the channel. Do so by squeezing midway or higher, just enough to get it into the channel. Don't squeeze it down by where it attaches to the hand or it is more possible to bend it there. Note: I am not a gunsmith, but I've played with a fair number of guns. :)
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:) PoindexterG ;)
I am of two minds on this (Don't bring me into this). First is . . . You did something wrong. Next is, I agree with Navy Six AND Abilene. It is not uncommon to to take a brandy knew gun out of the box and it works!!! Wowzers!!! Until, upon close inspection you find the Bolt is just sitting on top of the cylinder notches and doesn't actually fit "into" the notches. This condition will allow "Throw By" (cylinder over rotation). Also, it's a Uberti. There are no "drop in" parts. They require fitting. I also feel your (the guns too) hand may well not be correctly fitted. SO: In any case, Take It Back Apart. Then check the bolt head fit. Don't forget the trailing edge of the bot head needs slight "rounding." And it must fit freely in EVERY notch.
Good Luck and Stay Safe Out There
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OP, what I would do is tear it back down. Inspect every part. Deburr everything paying special attention to the hand Channel in the frame.
Look closely at the trigger where the hand swings back and forth. I’ve found burrs there that have caused me problems in the past. Lubricate each part lightly and put back together slowly.