Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Spencer Shooting Society => Topic started by: Kilgarvan on February 27, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
-
Hello all!! New here and looking forward to being a member.
I just picked up a Burnside Carbine, 5th Model. It’s Marked Model 1864 with a serial number of 9382. I was wondering if anyone here could help with a manufacture date and if this is listed as issued to any cavalry units.
I was referred here and told to ask for Two Flints! If your out there, I’d appreciate any help.
Thanks!
-
Ok.....I guess I have another question. Here is pic of serial number. Is this a “4th” or “5th” model. Or are those “collector” terms and this is simply a Model 1864?
Anyhow, really hoping someone can help with manufacture date and serial number look up if this was issued to any cavalry units. Thanks!
-
Hi Kilgarvan,
Sorry, I can't help you with any serial # information . . . Burnside Carbine listings are very incomplete. and not too many are listed in my 4 volumes dealing with Civil War Arms. I did not find any serial #s close to your #9382 that would allow me to determine which unit it was issued to.
Maybe this link will help you to determine which model you have:
https://www.menmachineandthecarbine.org/burnside-the-carbine-and-its-models#:~:text=The%20Burnside%20gained%20a%20good%20reputation%20on%20the,with%2055,567%20Burnsides%20throughout%20the%20Civil%20War.%203
Sorry.
Two Flints
-
Thanks for the help. Bummer no serial number match.
I’m fairly certain it’s a 5th model (has the guide screw). And I understand with this serial number it “should” be manufactured June-July 1863.
Any additional thoughts welcomed.
-
I don't see anything close to your serial number in the Springfield Research Service volumes I have. Closest was a 99xx and an 8xxx, both issued to the 6th Illinois Volunteer Cavalry around 1864-65. That is quite a spread and the intervening ones could have been issued to another unit. While both the 6th and 7th Illinois and the 2nd Iowa participated in Grierson's Raid (loosely depicted in the John Wayne movie "The Horse Soldiers"), that was in 1863, so your Burnside would NOT have been in that campaign. Grierson and Hatch both had post-CW careers as colonels commanding the 10th and 9th Cavalry, respectively, the Buffalo Soliders.
One interesting sidelight about at least the 5th Model (which yours is), is that after firing a round, and lowering the lever, a projection on the receiver will actually knock the fired "top hat" percussion cap off the cone (nipple), so you wouldn't have to pick it off before reloading.
Stay well, Pards!
-
Thanks for the help!! Bummer no serial numbers match a unit.
But, I did just want to confirm based on this being a 5th model and serial number as is, this was made June - July 1863.
Thanks
-
The "Model of 1864" Burnsides should be a separate model. The trigger plate is different and they are in their own serial number range (I have seen #4 and #16). These came about when Burnside was setting up to make M-1865 Spencers. That process was taking too long, so they restarted the Burnside carbine line. Most of them were delivered right at the end of the war and never issued. #9382 will have a 4th model brother with the same number and no breechblock guide screw.
-
Oops! I didn't read your initial post carefully! That is a Burnside. It should have a 20" barrel. Not much data on them, as they didn't get many of them out to the troops during the CW.
-
Thanks for all the comments! I’m new to this so I’m confused lol.
This carbine definitely has a guide screw. So....5th model? Also, with this serial number, and, as a 5th model, does that still put date of manufacture at June-July 1863?
Thanks!!
-
There are 5th models and then there are 5th models. The collectors references don't differentiate between the 5th models made before Burnside shut down carbine production to switch over to making Spencers, and the ones marked "Model of 1864" on the receiver, which were made after single shot carbine production was restarted because Spencer manufacture was taking to long to get going. Check your receiver. You have the "Model of 1864'.
The "Model of 1864" is in its own serial number range, starting at 1 and going up over at least 13,000, and it has a longer trigger plate to reinforce the stock wrist. It really should be recognized as separate model. You can't go by the serial number lists to determine the date of production on the "Model of 1864" Burnsides. They were made late in 1864 through about mid 1865 and very few were issued.
I'm on the road right now, but can post more info on the "Model of 1864" Burnsides when I get home and can check my notes and references.
-
Read Hull’s book on the Burnside. The “5th”model began production in April, 1863, starting with serial number 1. They were marked 1864 until serial number ~18,000, then they switched back to 1856. Your carbine was made in the June-July 1863 time frame. The late carbines were marked 1856 and had serial numbers in the 30k range.
-
This is a good thread. I also have a Burnside and it is a 5th model with a serial number of 7987. I did some looking around and was not able to find a reference to that number. any idea where I can look?
-
I also have a Burnside, Burnside Rifle Co. Providence RI, Burnside Patent March 25th 1856 #25515 It was given to my Dad by a veteran when they moved to Wheeling, West Virginia, probably in the early 20's. He was also given an original cartridge, which he fired.
My Dad wouldn't let me get anything that couldn't be shot. I remember going to Gun Shows that were held in our school gym on Saturdays several times a year. I had a paper route and had saved money to buy a Civil War rifle or carbine, but he wouldn't let me unless it could be shot. Spencer's for $20, Sharps for $25, Hall's for about the same prices and Jenks, Starr and others. Couldn't get them because, " you can't shoot them, so no sense in having them".