Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 10:23:07 AM
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The Austrian Adams type 562” revolvers...based on the already mighty British Adams 54” ( 12,4 mm) revolver.
Years ago I saw one on display in the military museum of Prague. Popular in their time among wealthy civilians and officers in Central and Eastern Europe....and virtually ignored by the gun press today.
Maybe the Walker was “the most powerful revolver” for a few years only, until these revolvers appeared on the market?
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How many grains of powder did it take and what was the bullet weight. It reminds me of the double action Starr revolver that was pretty much a failure to hit anything with.
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Simple calculation.
562” round ball=240 grains. ( same weigth as a 44 mag standard bullet).
The chamber measures 14 mm diameter x 27 mm long= 27x3,1416x 49 =41 cubic centimeters = 58 grains 3F powder maximum charge,
In short, 240 grain bullet X 58 grains charge.
By comparison, a Colt Walker
141 grains bulletX 55/58 grains maximum charge.
Calculations based on 240 grains/141 grains= 1,7 times more mass in the 562 round ball than in the 454 ball, so this revolver migth well almost double the Colt Walker in muzzle energy.
This revolver is based on the Adams Beaumont design, which was vey sucessful and efective. There are several units of them in collections and museums in Europe, so it was industrially manufactured and relative sucessful, but not in the USA so it was virtually unknown to US gun writers, thought well documented in Europe.
Lets not forget the original british Adams Beaumont Dragoon revolvers, the large frame configurations, shooting a 540 “ caliber bullet of 227 grainsX60 grains of powder....quite more powerful, around 60%, than the Colt Walker,
So Myth busted, no, the Colt Walker was not the most powerful Revolver, as both British and Austrian large caliber industrial revolvers were quite more powerful.
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With that skinny grip and that recoil shoulder on that back strap I can't imagine shooting that thing would be anything but painfui. I don't need bragging rights enough for that one. My full power 45 Colt BP loads are more than enough, thank you.
Dave
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"I beg you, PLEASE, don't make me shot you!"
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Reminds me of those Gawd-awful Ugly/Beautiful Montenegro-type pistols.
They sit so high and top heavy in the hand that they are sure to be wrist breakers in recoiling.
Must have had to have a lackey standing behind you leaning into and pushing against your shoulders to keep you from being thrown backward at every discharge.
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With that skinny grip and that recoil shoulder on that back strap I can't imagine shooting that thing would be anything but painfui. I don't need bragging rights enough for that one. My full power 45 Colt BP loads are more than enough, thank you.
Dave
Have you shot an Adams a Beaumont revolver? I did. In my opinion, more comfortable and offers much more control than Colts, which, by the way, for medium hands, is quite good.
The grip is not thin, but it is the frame, which is huge, that makes the grip look small.
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Reminds me of those Gawd-awful Ugly/Beautiful Montenegro-type pistols.
They sit so high and top heavy in the hand that they are sure to be wrist breakers in recoiling.
Must have had to have a lackey standing behind you leaning into and pushing against your shoulders to keep you from being thrown backward at every discharge.
In my opinion, that grip looks perfect. It is an Adams Beaumont grip, maybe a bit larger, and the Adams grip is very comfortable with a perfect angle, like a Luger pistol.
This is me, after shooting my friend’s, some years ago. What a wonderful revolver, the Adams revolver. This is the standard frame, in 451 caliber, not the big Dragoon in 54” caliber, a gun probably more powerful than a Walker.
Probably one of the most comfortable cap and ball revolvers to shoot thanks to its advanced grip design.
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Perfect grip.
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This one might not qualify, on account of it being some gunsmiths "one-off custom"....but I don't think they come any bigger than this...?
.75 caliber round ball, the powder column being at least .75" tall by .75" diameter. 3F Shotgunpowder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YziAAEG5sf8
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It is a smooth bore custom made revolver, unshootable because the back axis will destroy the shooting hand.
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Then there's the Tranter .577 caliber:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amr6e9JLwvM
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I am talking about cap and ball revolvers, not Centerfire era revolvers. In the Centerfire era, we have lots of British revolvers shooting 577 bullets, like the Webley No 1 revolver or the Bland Pryse revolvers,and their Belgian and Vasque clones, many sold in the Turkish and Middle East markets until the 1900s.
However, I doubt they were more powerful as the cartridges were very low speed, carrying moderate charges of rifle powder, around 20 grains, and rarely surpassing 600 FPS or maybe a little more.
We are talking about 3 times that charge in the cap and ball British and Austrian revolvers. Almost true 44 magnums.
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I think the calculation of the .562" round ball is a little off, according to LEE Precision it weighs 266,46 grains.
https://leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-ball-562.html
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I think you might be rigth,,I took my data from Pedersoli,..the truth probably lies between both values.
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Most interesting! It seems that this monster beats mighty Walker hands down. Having said that, I'll stick to my Uberti Walker anyhow
-Bulldog
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Does your chamber volume calculation take into account the reduction due to the volume taken up by the ball?
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Yes,
Cilinder length ( excluding star and including nipples)=55 mm .
Total Chamber depth=41mm aproximately being conservative
Practical Powder capacity =41-14 mm ball diameter=27mm
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I'd put up the Ruger Old Army as a contender. I've seen it loaded up to .454 Casull pressures in Kirst Konverter cylinders. But, that's with heathen smokeyless fad powder. Those kind of pressures wouldn't be tolerated in other BP guns.
The most pressure in 45Colt brass is around 1200psi.
DD-MDA
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The important thing here is that we have so many myths about the past. And a second lesson here is that gun writers...don’t know it all, as we sometimes suppose.
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Here is a link:
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14520655
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Greetings, All!
There was at least one Tranter / Webley No.1 .577" Revolver with an Auxiliary Powder & Ball cylinder; it was
written up in an "Guns & Ammo Annual" in the 70's...
These Magnum Double-Action Cap & Balls look magnificent! So... Who in Italy is going to step up to the plate...?
M.T.M.
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These Magnum Double-Action Cap & Balls look magnificent! So... Who in Italy is going to step up to the plate...?
M.T.M.
Dream on, McDuff.
In a world where just how much cornmeal to put in your cartridges is regularly discussed, - not nearly enough people can afford to hire the stout fellow needed to stand behind you pushing against your back when you'd go to shoot it. ;) ;D
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How about that center barrel on the le matte? You could add powder and lead to top anything couldnt you?
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Hi !
You have not been informed that this austrian revolver is a "dorn-revolver", i.e. has a "tige" in each chamber, to give at any bullet the same position, when charged.
In this way, the volume of the "tige", reduces the volume of the powder, so : EVERY evaluation of the charge must consider this constructive detail.
You must remember the short Lorenz "Dorn-stutzen M 1854", a rifle for austrian Yaegers, with a chamber of similar construction, also arrived in the US with the CW
The name of this Dorn-revolver is M 1861 Scheinigg; was made in 13,9 mm. and 11 mm. calibers. The 13,9 mm. was the same of the Lorenz rifle, and I suppose the bullet was the same.
It was a pistol for Officers, but the the Big and the smaller 11 mm. were also used on the civilian side.
In Europe is quite rare.
Hope to be of help to clarify the matter ..
Bye, Gianfranco