Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gun Reviews => Topic started by: half-hitch on May 30, 2015, 08:11:30 AM
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I'm looking at the Uberti 1873 Short Rilfe and the Cimarron version of the same rifle. I'm guessing that the Cimarron is probably a Uberti too but is it worth $100 more and if so, why? Are the differences mechanical or cosmetic?
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I've heard that Cimarron's rifles are supposed to be hand picked from the finest Uberti rifles and anything that doesn't match Cimarron's standards aren't taken. Personally, I think that's hogwash. There isn't any real difference between the two, in my opinion.
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I've heard that Cimarron's rifles are supposed to be hand picked from the finest Uberti rifles and anything that doesn't match Cimarron's standards aren't taken. Personally, I think that's hogwash. There isn't any real difference between the two, in my opinion.
Well I guess you should choose more carefully who you listen to. Cimarron doesn't say that.
The differences are mostly cosmetic. In the case of most of the rifles, the Cimarron will have the barrel markings in the same font as originals and will have the King's Patent Improvement markings. Inside they are the same.
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I've heard it both ways; "they're the same guns", on one side and "they're hand picked" on the other. I figured it's more cosmetic but I was wondering if they did anything to the actions to slick them up.
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Well I guess you should choose more carefully who you listen to. Cimarron doesn't say that.
The differences are mostly cosmetic. In the case of most of the rifles, the Cimarron will have the barrel markings in the same font as originals and will have the King's Patent Improvement markings. Inside they are the same.
Didn't mean to cause offense, just reporting the rumors I had heard. Never said that it came straight from Cimarron.
Also not saying that Cimarron has a bad product, because they don't. My 1875 Remington I got from them is a work of art and has been great out of the box, day 1.
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I know some of Cimarron's guns (as well as Taylors) are Piettas. I've got an 1875 Remington too that's a Uberti and one of my favorites.
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Cimmarron, Taylor's, EMF and others are importers. They do not make guns. They buy them from Uberti, Pietta, Pedersoli and other manufacturers. Some finishes or barrel or stock configurations are exclusive to particular importers. Howevery, they all come from the same places and any difference in quality from one gun to the next is simply the result of manufacturing tolerances. A few years ago I bought a new brand "X" and the next week the local toy store had brand "Y" $100.00 cheaper and it was nicer than the one I had purchased. The difference, one importer was charging less for that model and by luck of the draw actually had a better finished gun for THAT gun. On another occasion I bought a rifle and the box said brand "Y" but the barrel was marked brand "Z". Serial number on the box was correct and the dealer did not have any other lever guns so there was no mix up.
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Greetings My Good Netizens -
this link (which the forum search engine could not find!)
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=32127.15
discusses the topic "in general" and our good Abilene clarified some items.
and Pettifogger elaborated nicely upon what is found when theory hits the real world:
Cimmarron, Taylor's, EMF and others are importers. They do not make guns. They buy them from Uberti, Pietta, Pedersoli and other manufacturers. Some finishes or barrel or stock configurations are exclusive to particular importers. Howevery, they all come from the same places and any difference in quality from one gun to the next is simply the result of manufacturing tolerances. A few years ago I bought a new brand "X" and the next week the local toy store had brand "Y" $100.00 cheaper and it was nicer than the one I had purchased. The difference, one importer was charging less for that model and by luck of the draw actually had a better finished gun for THAT gun. On another occasion I bought a rifle and the box said brand "Y" but the barrel was marked brand "Z". Serial number on the box was correct and the dealer did not have any other lever guns so there was no mix up.
yhs
prof marvel
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half-hitch take a look at my 73 (18 inch with half round barrel) from Taylors I am happy with the fit and finish.
(http://s15.postimg.org/qb8ya8a5n/1873.jpg)
(http://s28.postimg.org/g7fgjvmp9/1873_1.jpg)
Cheers
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The entire issue with quality of Italian made cowboy guns is confusing. I had a gun store owner try to explain it to me once . He said if I remember right that in Italy… Pedersoli, Pietta, and Uberti are all made in the same town and that US importers (Cimarron, Taylors, Heritage etc.) order guns made to certain specs. Further he said that year to year it’s a whole new ball game with new bids for projects and new specs requested. Therefore one year you may get a great Cimarron firearm and the next year the same gun might have problems from the same importer. It’s a crap shoot from what I understand with little consistency.
My conclusions from what little first hand experience I’ve had is that a Colt product is likely to have a fare amount of manufacturing defects right out of the box though it with probably shoot strait. I have been happy with my 2 Uberti rifles (1866 American Arms) and (1873 Stoeger). Also I have a Pietta SAA Imported by Heritage very nice and a Cimarron Pietta SAA. They are different from one another but both descent firearms especially for the price. I bought a 2nd gen Colt SAA and though it will shoot to point of aim. It took a hammer and punch to get the cylinder pin to move until I did quite a bit of work on it and the action was about as smooth as a cement truck changing gears. IMO Colt=junk for too much $$ buy Italian and take your chances some are better than others.
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half-hitch take a look at my 73 (18 inch with half round barrel) from Taylors I am happy with the fit and finish.
(http://s15.postimg.org/qb8ya8a5n/1873.jpg)
(http://s28.postimg.org/g7fgjvmp9/1873_1.jpg)
Cheers
Now that's what I'm talking about. That's sweet. On Uberti's web site, the 18" barrel doesn't come in .44-40, which is what I want. What about your Taylor? I don't know if the Taylor is a Uberti or other manufacturer.
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The entire issue with quality of Italian made cowboy guns is confusing. I had a gun store owner try to explain it to me once . He said if I remember right that in Italy… Pedersoli, Pietta, and Uberti are all made in the same town and that US importers (Cimarron, Taylors, Heritage etc.) order guns made to certain specs. Further he said that year to year it’s a whole new ball game with new bids for projects and new specs requested. Therefore one year you may get a great Cimarron firearm and the next year the same gun might have problems from the same importer. It’s a crap shoot from what I understand with little consistency.
My conclusions from what little first hand experience I’ve had is that a Colt product is likely to have a fare amount of manufacturing defects right out of the box though it with probably shoot strait. I have been happy with my 2 Uberti rifles (1866 American Arms) and (1873 Stoeger). Also I have a Pietta SAA Imported by Heritage very nice and a Cimarron Pietta SAA. They are different from one another but both descent firearms especially for the price. I bought a 2nd gen Colt SAA and though it will shoot to point of aim. It took a hammer and punch to get the cylinder pin to move until I did quite a bit of work on it and the action was about as smooth as a cement truck changing gears. IMO Colt=junk for too much $$ buy Italian and take your chances some are better than others.
I've heard it both ways Tuco, so it's hard to say. I've heard that all the guns that the importers get are the same and then they make cosmetic changes to them once they're stateside. Thinks like grips, action jobs, engraving, etc. are all a part of the importers adding their own touch.
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Now that's what I'm talking about. That's sweet. On Uberti's web site, the 18" barrel doesn't come in .44-40, which is what I want. What about your Taylor? I don't know if the Taylor is a Uberti or other manufacturer.
My Taylor is a Uberti and it is 44WCF aka 44-40 ;D
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My Taylor is a Uberti and it is 44WCF aka 44-40 ;D
I should have been more specific. The Uberti 1873 Half Oct. with the CH receiver (my preference) and 18 inch barrel only comes in .45 Colt and .357 Mag. The Uberti Short Rifle with the 20 inch barrel and CH receiver comes in .44-40 WCF, .357 Mag and .45 Colt. There are other short barrel rifles in .44-40 but I like the CH look over the look of the blued receiver.
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I should have been more specific. The Uberti 1873 Half Oct. with the CH receiver (my preference) and 18 inch barrel only comes in .45 Colt and .357 Mag....
What are you talking about? M113A3 just told you his 18" half-octagon Taylors (Uberti) is 44-40. Cimarron carries it as well in 44-40 (called the Brushpopper) with both straight stock and pistol grip. Also, all Uberti '73's with octagonal or half-oct. barrels will have the CH receiver. The only Uberti '73's with blued receiver are round-barreled carbines. Some of those are blued and some are CH.
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Is there not a old saying about leading a horse to water and the other one about a dead horse.
You guys in the US are lucky to have a chose.
M
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Abilene.... I'm talking about the Uberti website. Not Taylor or Cimarron. If the Taylor and Cimarron rifles are Uberti, and I don't if they are or not because they import from several manufacturers, I can't see paying extra money for the same gun just because it's got an importer's names on it.
If Uberti has an 18" barrel in .44-40 with the CH receiver then why isn't it on their website? If you see one below, point it out because my eyes must be missing it. The Taylor Comanchero, which I beleive is the closest to what I like, is over $1800.
1873 Rifle and Carbine
Trapper .45 Colt 16.125″ Blue Steel Frame and Buttplate, C/H Lever $1,259
Trapper .357 Mag 16.125″ Blue Steel Frame and Buttplate, C/H Lever $1,259
Half Oct. Rifle .45 Colt 18″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,309
Half Oct. Rifle .357 Mag 18″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,309
Carbine .45 Colt 19″ Blue Steel Frame and Buttplate, C/H Lever $1,219
Carbine .44-40 19″ Blue Steel Frame and Buttplate, C/H Lever $1,219
Carbine .357 Mag 19″ Blue Steel Frame and Buttplate, C/H Lever $1,219
Carbine .44 Mag 19″ Blue Steel Frame, Rubber Recoil Pad, C/H Lever $1,309
Short Rifle .45 Colt 20″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,259
Short Rifle .44-40 20″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,259
Short Rifle .357 Mag 20″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,259
Sporting Rifle .45 Colt 24.25″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,259
Sporting Rifle .44-40 24.25″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,259
Sporting Rifle .357 Mag 24.25″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,259
Special Sporting Short .45 Colt 20″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,399
Special Sporting Short .44-40 20″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,399
Special Sporting Short .357 Mag 20″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,399
Special Sporting .45 Colt 24.25″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,399
Special Sporting .44-40 24.25″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,399
Special Sporting .357 Mag 24.25″ C/H Frame, Buttplate and Lever $1,399
Competition .45 Colt 20″ C/H Frame and Lever, Rubber Recoil Pad $1,499
Competition .357 Mag 20″ C/H Frame and Lever, Rubber Recoil Pad $1,499
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They are all Uberti rifles. Importers may offer different configurations, but they are all made by the same maker. Look at the importer's sites to see what they offer, then have an FFL check on the price and availability, keeping in mind that the websites will list the MSRP, which is virtually always higher than what you'll actually pay.
As for your rifle, is this what you're looking for? http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/repeating-rifles-1/model-1873/texas-brush-popper-1/texas-brush-popper-pistol-grip-44-40-18-in-oct-to-rnd-c-a-2024.html (http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/repeating-rifles-1/model-1873/texas-brush-popper-1/texas-brush-popper-pistol-grip-44-40-18-in-oct-to-rnd-c-a-2024.html)
For availability and pricing, I recommend Oklahoma Tom at 3B Shooting Supply: http://www.3bshootingsupply.com/ (http://www.3bshootingsupply.com/).
Lastly, also keep in mind that most of the folks here have been doing this for a long time and know what they're talking about. Hear them.
CC Griff
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I like the Cimarron's. The markings are almost worth the few dollars difference to me. I hate the big old block generic looking markings. Cimarron's are marked like the originals.
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Just based off my own prospective, I would contact the Manufacture and or their Importers to see what was available in the firearm and caliber I was interested in.
Some of their dealers may offer something better price wise. Don't be afraid to ask for their dealer contacts #'s for your area.
The more they sell... the more they can buy.
My best,
Blair
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Is there not a old saying about leading a horse to water and the other one about a dead horse.
I have a saying " if you put a mule in a stable with a race horse, the horse gets stubborn, but the mule doesn't run faster. "
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Good Tory,
That is funny!
Thanks!
My best,
Blair
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Very good Troy will use that one. ;D
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an old saying from Navy training, “You can’t push a rope.”
but the mule & horse analogy is perfect
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The way I see it, it depends on what you are going to do with it. If you want to hang it on a wall and look at it, by all means, spend the extra money and get the good wood. As I found out (the expensive way), if you are actually use it for action shooting, it is a tool! Look at it that way. You will be throwing it down on loading, stage, and unloading tables not to mention your gun cart in total frustration! It will be dinged, dented and generally looking like crap after the first year. It will shoot well for many years if you clean and pay attention to it as you should, but it will not be a museum piece. If it does, your not shooting hard enough. So save the money and buy more ammo! Good luck, W. L.
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My experiences with Cimarron vs. the other importers has been that Cimarron will import some firearms with special features or cosmetic differences that may make them look more authentic. And some desirable features really seem to be exclusive to Cimarron. Mechanically, however, none of my Cimarrons have been any better than those of any importer. Their leverguns have required just as much work to smooth up as others', and three of their single actions that went through my hands (two Ubertis and one Pietta) were absolute dogs that should have gone back but ended up being used to hone my gunsmithing skills instead. As for quality of fit and finish, the two best leverguns that ever passed through my hands were imported by Stoeger, though I suspect that I just got lucky in the crapshoot that is Italian old west reproductions.