Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: cpt dan blodgett on June 14, 2013, 10:42:02 PM
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I embarked on a new project a couple of weeks ago with the purchase of a 1903 Springfield MK1 receiver complete w/bolt. Have ordered just about all the parts necessary from Sarco. Other than the barrel and stock have on hand everything other than the front sight band, and rear sight complete with collar. Those should arrive in the next few days.
The plan is to get a barrel from DCM (or CMP I guess now) and a stock from somewhere.
Boyds has a straight stock for $144. Will have to call them to see if they can router the finger grooves in one.
Anyone else have a source for a finger groove repro?
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You'll need a stock specifically cut for the Mark 1 - there's a relief cut to accomodate the Pedersen Device, in addition to the finger grooves.
Also - you'll need an actual '03 barrel - not an '03A3 - and the CMP doesn't have those.
You're going to be looking at a lot of gun shows.
Scouts Out!
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Thanks for the tip about the Pedersen cut out, may not do that as no one can afford a pederson device.
The CMP website shows a 03 and an 03a3 barrel, will have to call to verify.
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Last I knew - those barrels were all aftermarket, unless they were badly worn from use with Color Guards.
CMP uses their better ones to assemble complete rifles to auction, since they're in the rebuilding business, instead of the 'original' business, now.
Numrich used to have a fair number of original take-offs.
Scouts Out!
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D New production new criterion barrels Building a shooter I am not trying to Make a collectors gunis just won the pass inspection from 10 feet
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The CMP also has new manufacture Type S finger groove stocks-
http://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=088&item=&sfv=&cat=PAC&desc=&udc=&mct=&vndr=&ba=&pmin=&pmax=¬e1=¬e2=¬e3=¬e4=¬e5=&max=#
Be warned,don't expect to order something from the CMP and have it next week.They are thousands of orders behind and delivery times are running 60 to 90 days or more.An order they received on March 25 for ammunition was delivered to me June 6.
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Thanks a bunch Jim Bob, some how when I looked before I only saw C stock. I may just be blind, in anycase hope they dont charge me until item is shipped. I went a head and ordered the barrel and stock.
The parts kit I ordered had a bolt in it with a later production square vs radius to the front of the safety lug like the bolt that came with the action. The original bolt safety lug almost bears on the rear ring of receiver. 2 sheets of paper fit between, 3 do not.
The other bolt has between a 32nd and 16th inch clearance, is that an issue?
When I get the barrel installed will have gunsmith check headspace with both bolts to see if they will safely interchange
I also noticed the orginal bolt extractor has a hole drilled in the claw, presumably to allow gas to escape out the hole in right side of receiver. The extractor for the other bolt is not drilled, is this something I should do, and hardened thus making drilling problematic?
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On credit card orders they don't charge it till shortly before shipping.You'll get an order acknowledgement e-mail when they receive your order and a shipping notice with a tracking number wnen they ship it.
Extractors-the hole in the extractor is a feature of earlier rifles.It was done away with on later i.e. WW2 production parts and rifles.Look and see if it has a CV stamp on it.That's a National Match part and rather scarce and worth a good bit more than the rest.
A word on bolts-Straight handle vs bent.
Generally speaking, “low number” bolts can be distinguished from “high-number” bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down. All “low number” bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have “swept-back” (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.
(http://www.vishooter.net/m1903/J5.JPG)
Notice how the top bolt is swept back slightly compared to the other two.The straight handle bolts are case hardened bolts and not recommended for use and are banned from use in most shoots.
Here's a good 03 site-
http://www.vishooter.net/m1903.html
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The action is in the 1.17 million range the original bolt does have a straight handle and what looks like an R on bolt sleeve and an S on the bottom of the safetly lug. May well be a mixed matched early bolt body with a remington sleeve.
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That's an early Springfield bolt body,used 1903-1912.It has good value to someone restoring a pre-WW1 03.I would not recommend it for shooting as it is a case hardened bolt.Since you're re-barreling anyway I'd look for a later swept handle bolt.
Springfield Sporters has Brown & Sharpe new old stock in the grease WW2 replacement parts bolt bodies for $15 plus P&H-
http://www.ssporters.com/parts/spring-1903.html
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I have a B&S bolt that came with the Sarco parts kit
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The last two parts other than the stock and barrel are do in from Sarco next week. Somehow the rear sight was not in the kit as it should have been. I had neglected to look close enough to the list saw the kit had the front sight and screw, but not the front sight band. All is well that ends well.
Will probably be late August or even into September before CMP sends me the stock and barrel. No I need to figure out how to finsih the stock, linseed, tung oil, linspeed, tru oil or a mix of a couple. Initial thought is to start with either linseed or tru oil cut with mineral spirits to impregnate the wood after several coats a little straight tung oil sparingly applied and rubbed well. Repeat until I like the looks of it. Will not go for a shine.
I have an extra walnut hand guard I can test on.
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Up until 1925 Springfields were stained with what was called "Logwood" stain, then dipped (and by dipped, I mean soaked!) in Linseed oil, then hung to dry.
THis is the closest to the original stain that I know of: http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/MAWAL1.asp
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Just checked ODCMP E-Store. I have not pending orders, historical orders shows the Stock and Barrel invoiced and scheduled to ship ASAP, what ever that means. I expect I will have them next week as they should ship fedex 2 day. Received the final parts (front sight band and rear sight complete minus collar) about a month ago.
Drydock thanks for the tip on the stock finish. May work over the stock for a while as I gather the funds to have the barrel put on the action, chamber finished reamed, headspaced and the sights mounted
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Boy, was I wrong, the doorbell just range FEXEX with two boxes one a very nicely grained walnut stock. Handguard is slightly darker than stock, I have another that may more closely match. The other box contained the barrel.
Hand tight there is about 1/4 inch to 5/16 more turn for the witness marks to line up. Sabre River can figure that out. also no spline or cut for rear sight collar on barrel, the front sight band will not slide on by hand either, again Saber River can figure it out.
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Well, I know that you'll have plenty of fun shootin' when the whole ball 'o wax is finished.
I got a 1943 'O3A3 about a year ago courtesy of a good friend who bought 2 in about 6 month and then I was able to talk him into selling the "cheaper" one. Mine is a Remington version.
I have also had a lot of fun getting as many of the little "nick-nack" accessories that were used with these beauties. Little goodies like the nickle-plated version AND clear plastic oil / cleaning jag holder, the folding screwdriver, the M3 (IF I remember right) cleaning combo tool, 1943-dated M1905 long bayonet, plus both versions (cut-off & new manufacture) 10" bayonets and other "goodies." There's a bucket load of these kinds of "accessories" that are out there. The only "repro" item I had to get is a leather sling with steel furniture. I also got one of the woven canvas fabric types, from 1942 but it was original "NOS" (New, Old Stock) with very little storage rust.etc.
Thanks to Sgt. Chapman, I have some of his VERY excellent WWII era ammo labels for a couple types of 30-06 "combat" ammo and the plans for making a correct-looking ammo box. Shane, thanks again!!!!
It has been fun getting all these "goodies" together. Now, all I have to do yet is a good day at the range with proper distance, which is more than the 100 yds. available at Camp Atterbury on their Public Range ... but I'll take what I can get. My eyes and skills have deteriorated enough that at this point, 100 yds. is really practical - we all have our limits.
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SHB, Good luck with your current project. I have a Nickle plated Model 1917 Eddystone that I acquired several years ago.
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SHB, Good luck with your current project. I have a Nickle plated Model 1917 Eddystone that I acquired several years ago.
Thanks, Lil' Jimmy. I too, have a lovely M1917, 'tho mine isn't in Parade Uniform, like yours. It's a great shooter and looks good, too. I've had it since the early 1980s. The only bad thing is that back then, I didn't know that all the cartouches on the stock were better left alone with all the dings & nicks on the wood stock, so as my very FIRST woodworking "upgrade project," I sanded the stock down well. A few of the deeper cartouches survived, but only barely. I wish I knew then what I know now.
;)
The good news is that last WEEK, I finally got a proper "stacking swivel" for the old gal, (M1917) and it didn't break the bank. She has had a stacking swivel from a different rifle for years, but now I have the PROPER "offset" swivel & screw that holds it. My 1917 was one of the WWII reworks, so it has the part blued-part parkerized look that those have and the bolt ser. # is different than the rest of the rifle, but I bought it as a "shooter" not a "collector." I have nothing BUT "shooters." But they're GOOD "shooters."
;D
It's fun getting all the goodies and accessories lined up, but it tends to cost some, these days!
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SHB I may have gone the 03 A3 route myself were it not for the Winter Range Bucky O'Neal match the allows 03s but not 03 A3s. Having decided to go the 03 route, was driven into the finger groove stock as well. Shades of Alvin York, and yes I know he used an Enfield in the battle and not the Springfield as in the movie, not to mention the 1911 vs the Luger.
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Of the two - the '03 and '03A3 - the '03A3 is the most inherently accurate, out of the box.
It's the long sight radius that does it.
However, I've never been interested in owning one, though I do own an M1903A4, with an M84 scope.
For me, the aesthetics of the M1903A1 and its pistolgrip stock made it the prettiest of the Springfields.
Somewhere, I've got an old photo of me - standing with an M1903 Mark1, with the Pedersen Device attached, and smoke still coming from the barrel.
Interesting, but as a shooter - underwhelming.
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SHB I may have gone the 03 A3 route myself were it not for the Winter Range Bucky O'Neal match the allows 03s but not 03 A3s. Having decided to go the 03 route, was driven into the finger groove stock as well. Shades of Alvin York, and yes I know he used an Enfield in the battle and not the Springfield as in the movie, not to mention the 1911 vs the Luger.
It seems to me I've read somewhere fairly recently that he actually DID use an '03 because he didn't like the sights on the 1917. With his shooting ability, I would guess his Platoon Commander, if he had any sense at all, was more than okay with the good Sergeant using whatever he wanted to use. I'll see if I can come up with that reference.
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I have read that as well, I think it was in an American Rifleman write up on him. He didn't like the peep sight, because it was harder to lead a moving target.
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Pony, I think you're right about where I saw that. Thanks!
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Fedex, UPS or whoever came thru. Have the chestnut ridge stain, light and Dark Milk Paint Co 100% Tru Oil and Citrus Spirits.
Cut the Chestnut ridge stain to 50% with 70% alcohol and applied liberally several coats to the stock and hand guard, between being alcohol based and being a 50 50 mix, the stock drank the stuff and dried darn near as fast as I could get it applied. 108 degree AZ weather and 10% humidity could have helped. Rubbed down with clean rag hit lightly with 320 grit.
This stuff is pretty red. Took some of the Dark Tung oil cut it to a 50 50 mix with the citrus spirits to aid penetration, again applied very liberally and rubbed in. Not having gallons and a tray to do the old dip method just kept slathering it on and rubbing. Decided I had enough on so I just rubbed and rubbed. Used 45 cal GI Patches to apply and rub. Letting hand guard and stock dry for either 24 or 48 hours. Actually I have rubbed and removed any visible excess enough that the stock seems pretty dry now. But will cure. May put out in the sunlight when I get home tomorrow. Cannot leave outside for several reasons. Idiot dogs could eat the stock, this time of year in AZ could have 60 MPH winds and dust storms to rival anything in the middle east, would hate to have a 60 grit finish on the stock.
The dark tung oil is taking a lot of the bright red look out of the stock. I am liking the looks already and wonder of wonders the upper handguard and stock look real close to the same color. Next coat of tung oil will probably still be the 50 50 mix to aid penetration.
Not sure if I will use the wet sanding application of subsequent coats to help seal the pores or just trust several very thin hard rubbed coats of the tung oil to fill the pores on its own.
I am not seeking a shiny glassy stock trophy rifle look. After a few coats hit with 400 grit will probably switch over to scotch bright pads between coats
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Hit the stock lightly with 400 grit, wiped twice with rags to remove all dust. Applied another liberal but single application of the 50 50 mix of dark tung oil. The wood is really sucking the stuff in. I am off in the AM tomorrow so will probably stand the stock in the good old arizona sun or maybe keep in the shade but let the stock experience the joys of 105 degree weather. This will give an idea of the color, took bottom picture friday AM in sunlight (clouds got in way)
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Looks great, Cap'n!
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The stock is getting close, probably 4 or 5 coats of 50/50 Dark Tung oil and Citrus spirits, followed by a like number of non cut tung oil. Some light sanding between some coats and scotch bright pads after some. Night before last noticed what must have been wiskering near wrist of stock. Hit with 400 grit lightly till smooth. Rubbed extensively with cloths to remove all dust etc. Followed up with 600 grit wet sanding application of another coat.
Pretty sure the stock will stay smooth from here on out. Do not want build up of a glossy type finish. Did have a minor major misshap along the way. Managed to let the stock fall over putting a few dings in it. Mostly sanded out the roughness but took some stain off making a light patch. Did not want to strip and restain, so will not have a weatherby looking stock. What the heck, I am building a 110 yo battle rifle right??