Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => 1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting => Topic started by: Roscoe Coles on December 29, 2011, 10:49:36 AM
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I am new to WB, just getting all my gear together. I was reading the post on how many magazines folks are carrying (6+ seems to be the answer), and it made me wonder why we are using so many magazines instead of just increasing the magazine load from 5 to 7. Being an FNG, can some one explain the logic behind why 5 rounds was chosen in the first place?
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At our range the WB competes head on with the SASS shooters. SASS shooters have five round sets from each revolver,,so the WB ones shoot five rounds too ,,as to be on the same page as far as scores. The sixth round would mean leaving a loaded round in the pistol which would be a safety violation at the least.
Deadwood
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Most WB matches are set up on CAS ranges with CAS targets and simular senerios. Most WB shooters are from the CAS ranks where pistol sweeps are in groups of 5 or 10. When writing senerios it is better to pattern the pistol sequences after the rifle sequence, less Ps and not a memory contest. Sorta like "With rifle shoot two 2-1-2 sweeps", "Move to table 2, with pistol shoot two 2-1-2 sweeps", "Move with pistol to table 3 and shoot two 2-1-2 sweeps" We have a stand alone WB match so we do have more movement and shooting positions than our CAS matches. WB is a blast, Good Luck :)
Jefro :D Relax-Enjoy
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I shot a 1911 with 5 rds per mag in one of our club matches and there was no advantage over shooting a SA. By the time I chambered a rd, reloaded a mag, lowered the slide on an empty chamber and dropped the hammer, it was an 'equalizer'.
Shooting a full house .45 ACP against a wimp loaded .38 makes ya feel good!
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SASS shooters count their strings in fives and tens.
SASS R/Os count in fives and tens.
SASS spotters count in fives and tens.
Safety, pure and simple.
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Mainly because that is the WB rule.
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I thought that WB was setting out to be something different than SASS, that it was a chance to break free of some of the less interesting elements of the SASS shooting format. In particular, (and per SASS's own statements) I thought that it was not going to be a just another SASS shooting category. AH well, WB is young yet, who knows how it will develop.
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Why bother, some of us can shoot as poorly with 5 rounds as we do with 7 so why not save ammo.
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So if only five rounds a magazine, why the restriction on magazine size, is it purely the look.
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So if only five rounds a magazine, why the restriction on magazine size, is it purely the look.
What size restriction are you referring to?
It is my feeling that as Wild Bunch shooting develops, the 5 round rule may be changed to 7. Just my thinking.
Blackfoot
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No 8 round mags. I thought. I thought there was a capacity restriction, but I guess it is just looks.
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So if only five rounds a magazine, why the restriction on magazine size, is it purely the look.
Yep, it's so they are sorta authentic to the originals, must have the flat base. And eight round mags are allowed.
WB Shooters Handbook page 5
• Magazines must be standard length and cannot hold more than eight
rounds. No extended base pads on magazines. Empty magazines must
weigh no more than 3.0 ounces.
Jefro :D Relax-Enjoy
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OK, if five is the majic number, why do I have to modify my '97 to make it hold 6? Since the '97 is the only legal shotgun and we don't have to make consessions for the double folks, why do I have to alter the springs to increase it's capacity?
Grapevine Jimmy
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I thought the five shot limit had to do with the fact that there are only five points on a Texas Star! Humor me, how many rounds do the Chicom Trench Guns hold?
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OK, if five is the majic number, why do I have to modify my '97 to make it hold 6? Since the '97 is the only legal shotgun and we don't have to make consessions for the double folks, why do I have to alter the springs to increase it's capacity?
Grapevine Jimmy
Six rounds in the 97 magazine is a personal option. There is no requirement to do it.
Blackfoot
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Yep, it's so they are sorta authentic to the originals, must have the flat base. And eight round mags are allowed.
WB Shooters Handbook page 5
• Magazines must be standard length and cannot hold more than eight
rounds. No extended base pads on magazines. Empty magazines must
weigh no more than 3.0 ounces.
Jefro :D Relax-Enjoy
If you going for authenticity, show me a picture of a kitted out american serviceman in the last century carrying more than 3 magazines for the Colt 1911 that he/she is carrying. Yes the 6 rds in a spring is an option, no consideration is given to the fact that if I wish to compete in the US, I'm only allowed to import a shotgun that holds 5 rds IAW BATF rules.
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I think that alot of it comes from how the stages are written. many are useing the same layouts as reguar SASS stages which are 2 pistol strings of 5 rou nds each, a 10 round rifle string and shotgun taget numbers divisible by 2. idealy for wild bunch it would be pistol nstrings of 7 rounda each and 5 round shotgun stages. this would allow the guns to be used as designed. I would like to see 5 round rifle strings and allow the win 94 in rifle calibers and other rifls of the era such as the 03 springfield, and other bolts.rifles can be loaded to CAS specs very easily.the GAF shooters do it all the time.
WBAS and local wild bunch shoots are different animals all together. checki with yourn local groups that are shooting this and see what they do.offer to write some stages. If there isn't one localy, startoun and set it up they way you wnat. often local gunclubs are more than happy to sponsor new types of matcheds as long as someone steps up to ru n the thing.
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OK, if five is the majic number, why do I have to modify my '97 to make it hold 6? Since the '97 is the only legal shotgun and we don't have to make consessions for the double folks, why do I have to alter the springs to increase it's capacity?
Grapevine Jimmy
Howdy Grapevine, long time no see :o. Come on down to the Buccaneer Range, last week we only had one stage with six shotgun, the rest were five. Pistol strings were 10, 15, and not more than 20 rounds. We shoot SASS on the 2nd Sat, then Wild Bunch on Sunday. Hope to see you soon, Good Luck :)
If you going for authenticity, show me a picture of a kitted out american serviceman in the last century carrying more than 3 magazines for the Colt 1911 that he/she is carrying. Yes the 6 rds in a spring is an option, no consideration is given to the fact that if I wish to compete in the US, I'm only allowed to import a shotgun that holds 5 rds IAW BATF rules.
Howdy Garand, I said sorta authentic ;). Nether game/sport SASS or Wild Bunch is truly authentic, SASS is based loosely around the late 1800s and TV/movie westerns, and WB is sorta based on turn of the century and the final scene of the movie. As for mags I only have four mag pouches, figure if I need any more I'll stick one in my vest pocket. My original Win 97 solid frame will hold six shotshells, but my other one I'll have to load one or get the spring kit. All in all WB is a blast to shoot ;D Good Luck :)
As the Judge once said;
"Everybody seems to think we're a period shoot, but we're not. We're a fantasy cowboy acting shoot." - Judge Roy Bean
Jefro :D Relax-Enjoy
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Aw.... come on now, the six round thing in a is only applicable to W.B., not CAS cowboy. As far as why only five rounds in a 1911 goes, that's because we don't have R.O.'s that can count on more than one hand.
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That is because they hold the timer with the other!!!
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Roscoe,
I am not an expert on the "Why's". I suppose (common sense) WB was a spin-off from CAS. The rules were in place and most of the folks were already familiar with CAS, so they (WB committee) did not "rock the boat" and therefore, WB was born. Still "infant" and growing. You will find different views from all the different clubs within SASS. But one theme seems to be present country wide. There is a STRONG DESIRE from members to go to the 7 round mag (tis the way JMB designed it) and I will venture to say, I suspect folks will see this happen within the next year or so. The '97 in its original form I believe will take 6 rounds in the mag. You will see a lot of '97 reproductions (China). They will only take 5 rounds. There are ways around this... use the shorter 12 gauge rounds; or use a modified spring and follower. In most WB bunch matches... the rifle is not that important, as in CAS. The rifle is mainly a transitional weapon. Some clubs do not use the rifle at all on some of their stages. The "key" firearms for WB is the 1911 and the '97. As stated... Wild Bunch is in its "infancy stage" and changes are occurring (see SASS Wild Bunch). THERE WILL BE CHANGE and with that change, some will love it and some will not. But whatever the change will be, there is one thing you will love, you shoot more, and there is usually more movement. It is not unusual to shoot 20+ rounds 1911 and 6+ '97 SG on a stage. And with that in mind you can see if you shoot 5 or more stages at a match you are going to eat up some bullets... BUT THAT IS WHAT WILD BUNCH IS ALL ABOUT. WB is not Cowboy (even though some think it is)... but there are those who want it to be cowboy because for some... Change is hard to accept. But that is my opine. Try WB and you will love it.