Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Longbranch => Topic started by: The Arapaho Kid on August 16, 2005, 10:25:09 AM
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How many of you folks have bonus targets where you shoot? If you hit them you get 5 seconds taken off your total time. I shoot at Marysville, Washington. Several of the stages have bonus targets. They are usually clay pigeons set in a dificult location. You don't have to load in any extra rounds for them, or reload on the firing line. On the pistol stages there are four regular targets and one bonus. If you miss it...you don't get a 5 second penalty. One of the rifle states has 4 regular targets and in between them is your bonus target. It's a little chicken on a post, painted white. Here you are shooting from about 60 feet and that chicken is a little white spot. I haven't missed it yet!
On one of the scattergun stages is a large, Texas Star target. It doesn't move until you knock one of the points off...then it starts to rotate and you have moving targets. Most folks get out of there with five rounds. Me? I don't do well with moving targets and it'll take me 10+ rounds to finish that stage.
So lets hear about bonus, or difficult targets.
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I like bonus targets....as long as they are true bonus targets. If the target is hit, you get a 5 second reduction off your time. But, if you miss and get a 5 second penalty for missing, then it's not a true bonus target. Those I don't like at all.
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I like bonus targets....as long as they are true bonus targets. If the target is hit, you get a 5 second reduction off your time. But, if you miss and get a 5 second penalty for missing, then it's not a true bonus target. Those I don't like at all.
IRO: Up here bonus targets are just that. If you miss...no penalty, but if you hit them....5 seconds off your time. When you have completed your main targets the timer will tell you that you need to shoot at the bonus target. He will also tell you that there is no penalty for a miss, but a 5 second reduction of your overall time if you hit it.
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Ahh... the ol' bonus target discussion. There ain't no such thing as a "bonus" target. (Unless only one person shoots at it.)
Consider this...
Your raw time for the stage is 30 seconds. You hit all of the targets except the last one. This last target is the "variable".
If the last target is a 5 sec. bonus: A hit makes your total time 25 sec., a miss makes it 30 sec.
If the last target is a just another target: A hit makes your total time 30 sec., a miss makes it 35 sec.
In both scenarios you have the ability to change your score by five seconds. In both scenarios your total time is five seconds higher if you miss the last target... just like it is for everybody else!
Where's the "bonus"?
Even if a bonus target is worth ten seconds, your total time is ten seconds higher if you miss the last target... just like it is for everybody else!
Sure... you could opt not to shoot at the bonus. You can also opt to plow instead of hitting one of the other targets. Same thing.
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Bonus targets can add some variety, but if they are as you describe (as most are), in truth the bonus is sort of a mirage. It is worth 5 seconds just as any other target.
If you shoot the stage in 40 seconds and miss a target, your time is 45. If another shoots in 40 seconds clean, his time is 40 seconds. 5 seconds difference.
With a bonus target, same 40 seconds, if you miss the bonus, your time would be 40 seconds. If the other fella hits it, his time would be 35 seconds. 5 seconds difference.
The main advanatage is that at most matches you can be considered "clean" even if you miss the bonus.
But many folks enjoy them, even if they realize the above truth.
I see Stump Water was quicker on the trigger than I was :D :D
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i don't know how other culbs work it, but where I shoot there is no penalty if you miss a designated bonus target, but there is a 5 second reduction in your time if you hit it.
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i don't know how other culbs work it, but where I shoot there is no penalty if you miss a designated bonus target, but there is a 5 second reduction in your time if you hit it.
I like bonus targets because they feel good, but I submit there is a penalty of 5 seconds for missing a bonus target as stated above by Stump Water and Marauder.
You run the stage in a raw time of 30 seconds. You hit the bonus. Your adjusted time is 25 seconds.
I run the stage in a raw time of 30 seconds. I miss the bonus. My adjusted time is 30 seconds--five (5) seconds slower than your time.
The next stage has no bonus target and you run it in a raw time of 25 seconds. You have no misses. Your adjusted time is 25 seconds.
I run the next stage in a raw time of 25 seconds. I have one miss. My adjusted time is 30 seconds--five (5) seconds slower than your time.
Now here is my question Kid: Why are you always beating me? ;D
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i don't know how other culbs work it, but where I shoot there is no penalty if you miss a designated bonus target, but there is a 5 second reduction in your time if you hit it.
I like bonus targets because they feel good, but I submit there is a penalty of 5 seconds for missing a bonus target as stated above by Stump Water and Marauder.
You run the stage in a raw time of 30 seconds. You hit the bonus. Your adjusted time is 25 seconds.
I run the stage in a raw time of 30 seconds. I miss the bonus. My adjusted time is 30 seconds--five (5) seconds slower than your time.
The next stage has no bonus target and you run it in a raw time of 25 seconds. You have no misses. Your adjusted time is 25 seconds.
I run the next stage in a raw time of 25 seconds. I have one miss. My adjusted time is 30 seconds--five (5) seconds slower than your time.
Now here is my question Kid: Why are you always beating me? ;D
I'm still a little confused about this. Where I shoot there's no penalty for a missed bonus target. If you run the stage in 30 seconds and hit the target your score is 25, but if you miss the target...that doesn't increase your time to 35 seconds. At the stages where there are bonus targets, you are told before you start shooting about the bonus target.
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Shot one not too long ago. They half hid a snake in tall grass. You had to take a shot at it. If you missed it was a five second gig. If you hit it it was five off. That isn't a bonus, that's a ten second penalty target if you miss.
Personally, 'Bonus' targets should be 'Optional' targets. Let the shooter decide if it's worth it to go after it. I've watched a bunch of folks take longer than five seconds trying to line up on a little target then miss the thing anyway.
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I'm still a little confused about this. Where I shoot there's no penalty for a missed bonus target. If you run the stage in 30 seconds and hit the target your score is 25, but if you miss the target...that doesn't increase your time to 35 seconds. At the stages where there are bonus targets, you are told before you start shooting about the bonus target.
You can call it whatever ya want to. Call it a "bonus" target... call it a "regular" target.... call it a "John Wayne" target... call it an "aww sh!+" target... it doesn't matter. If you hit the target your total time for the stage is five seconds less than it is if you miss it. Period.
In Arcey's example it's a ten second target. But it still doesn't matter what ya call it.
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Stump has the right call. How bout that Stump? We agree! :o
A bonus target isn't really a bonus as soon as one person hits it. Then it's just a regular target.
Only reason to call it a bonus is to make folks feel better about missing it.
Doc
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How bout that Stump? We agree! :o
Doc... I actually had "Stump (what's sounding like Doc Shapiro) Water" typed in that last post as a sign-off, but deleted it.
;D ;)
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There are a couple of places around here that give you a five second bonus for every stage that you shoot clean. First miss on a stage always makes ya wanna cry. That's a 10 second miss!!! :o
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Not all, but some putting shoots together try to throw the things in to 'level the field'. One went so far as to damned near ruin his shoots trying to bring the 'Fun Posse' and the 'Fast Posse' (his words) together.
It ain't gonna happen. The folks are gonna finish where they're gonna finish within a place or two. Off-the-wall stuff makes no difference.
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Arcey, that's for dang sure!
Now Stump, I'm kinda glad ya didn't do that. I think one of me is more than enough :o
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At my local clubs here the bonus targets are not counted as misses if you don't hit them, but if you do hit them then 5 seconds are removed from your total time. Bonus targets should never be counted as misses.
I don't mind bonus targets, but hate those non-shooting bonus gigs some matches have like flipping a card in a bucket or throwing a straw dummy through a window, etc etc.
To be a bonus you ought to have to shoot it and hit it for it to count.
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I write stages wit' -10 second TRUE-BONUS targets that you can reload & shoot if'n ya want. They do not usually take near 10 seconds to shoot. An' they don't cost you nothin' but 3 to 5 seconds if ya miss.
NOW AIN'T THET A REAL BONUS????
MG
PS: When we started out, We had 50 point bonus' targets that were a real booger to hit. Ya ended up wit' negative scores on some stages. That wasn't real fair or easy to cypher out. So we quit them.
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I call that a ten-second target. ;)
These bonus targets are just targets that you can elect to not shoot at, and not receive a "P" for the stage. But, if you're competitive, you have to shoot at them or you put yourself at a disadvantage.
Incidentally, that's why the "buy a miss" tickets were done away with at the larger matches... because you could buy an advanatge. Again, if you were competitive, you had to buy that miss ticket. It was extortion.
Anyhoo... back to the "bounus" targets. You could argue, "But what if you miss it? You've added the time to make the shot on to your raw time." That's true. But what if you don't try... and everyone else does?
The only time it makes sense to not shoot an optional target is when you know it's going to take you more time to shoot it than it's worth. And, in that instance, nobody will shoot it.
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I don't mind bonus targets, but hate those non-shooting bonus gigs some matches have like flipping a card in a bucket or throwing a straw dummy through a window, etc etc.
Well Big John without those type of things CAS is just IPSC in cowboy clothes. Those are the type of things that attracted many of us old timers in the first place. Back in the 90s "Guns & Ammo" had an article about a SASS shoot where you had to hold a baby all the time you were shooting and lines you had to say. I was shooting IPSC at the time and things had gotten way to serious amongst many shooters. I thought that CAS sounded like fun and joined SASS. In my opinion too many clubs have bowed to the Run & Gun boys and have forgotten the roots of SASS. It has been awhile since I have shot a real fun stage that reminded me of the old days.
JMHO
Will Ketchum
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Will you should be heading down to the Big Iron Showdown this weekend. It's going to be a hoot!
http://www.iredellregulators.com/BigIronShowdown/ (http://www.iredellregulators.com/BigIronShowdown/)
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On one of the scattergun stages is a large, Texas Star target. It doesn't move until you knock one of the points off...then it starts to rotate and you have moving targets. Most folks get out of there with five rounds. Me? I don't do well with moving targets and it'll take me 10+ rounds to finish that stage.
Hey, ho, Arapho!
Stage Seven for this weekend. Two, count 'em, two Texas Stars. On the signal, clear 'em with the shotgun, as many as it takes. Thought 'bout you right away.
That stage could cost some pretty coin with them BP shells, huh?
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At the first shoot I wnt to that had a bonus target, realizing that it would take extra time to shoot it, I asked that since it's a bonus, what if I don't shoot at it? That's when I first heard the term Spirit of the Game. Shot at it and hit it.
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Ole boy at one club bought himself some cute, little targets. Set 'em near the berm. Thems was "optional" the first time he set 'em out. Load another and take a shot if you wanted. Most folks paid 'em no mind.
The shoot the next month, they were scribbled into the shooting sequence. Ya HAD ta take a shot at 'em. Wonder why..................