Just bought my first Buffalo Gun, and I've got an issue with reloading.
I've only been reloading a year, so I have no idea if it's supposed to be this way, but I'm having to apply a HUGE amount of force to run the 45-70 brass thru the sizing die.
Before this I've only been reloading pistol brass (45 Colt & 45 ACP) with Lee Carbide dies, and those run smooth as silk. But with the Lee steel dies, I'm really afraid a piece of brass is going to just get stuck.
Am I doing something wrong? As I said, I'm running 45-70 brass (Starline) thru Lee steel dies. I'm using generous amounts of case lube - 3 squirts per case. (It's Cabela's alchohol / lanolin spray lube, if that matters.)
Even with all that lube I'm having to brace my press (to keep from tearing loose) while I size the cases. I know that's not right...
What press are you using?
Lee Classic Turret
I have a similar problem with some Redding 30-06 sizing dies. You might try removing the expanding plug and polishing it. If you have a micrometer you can try slowly removing some material from the plug. I chucked mine in a drill press and used fine emery paper checking it with the mic often. Also don't use too much lube. I use spray lube and only lube about every third case. It can be helpful to get a very small amount inside the neck. I have actually never heard of this problem on 45-70.
Have you tried clambering the case to see if it will go? It might be you don't have to do anything or just neck size it a bit. Many shooters don't size their brass if it's going to be shot out of the same gun. For a single shot the slug usually can be seated by hand.
I don't load much for the 45-70 these days but I am about to start again. There are many people on this forum that are much more knowledgeable regarding this round.
Will Ketchum
Did you clean the size die before you started. Sometimes there's alot of gunky heavy oil inside those dies that really smuck things up.
Barring that you may be learning why lee dies tend to cost twice as much, you buy the lee's get fed up and buy a set of decent quality...
Quote from: Ranch 13 on April 11, 2011, 01:45:33 PM
Did you clean the size die before you started. Sometimes there's alot of gunky heavy oil inside those dies that really smuck things up.
Barring that you may be learning why lee dies tend to cost twice as much, you buy the lee's get fed up and buy a set of decent quality...
I guess that depends on one's own experience. I have several sets of Lee dies and they work just great. I have a set of Lee 45 Colt set up in my Dillon. I have loaded many thousands of rounds with them. I did exchange the bullet seating die with a Dillon just because they are easier to clean the bullet lube out of then the Lee. I have found the Lee Factory crimp die to be one of the best additions to my loading that I have ever used. They don't depend on uniform cartridge length and give a perfect crimp every time.
Just my experience.
Will Ketchum
Am speaking from experience.
QuoteI'm using generous amounts of case lube - 3 squirts per case. (It's Cabela's alchohol / lanolin spray lube, if that matters.)
Go to a drug store anf about 6 bucks, buy a green can of Bag Balm. It's all lanolin. A little rubbed on the case does it.
I do caliber reforming and use the Lee 3 hole turret press with my dies, various brands, and have no issues with cases binding
I use the Lee 45-70 dies and at first I had the same prob. you were having I cleaned them and use a small amount of Lee case lube and no problem. WM
Wow, thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it.
@Will - Unfortunately I don't have the skill / courage to start modifying my dies. I haven't had any chambering issues, and I only have 1 rifle. So, I did take your advice and I backed my sizing die way out so it's just sizing the neck. That helps a lot.
@John Boy - I'll have to check that out. What section should I look in?
@Wildman - Good to know. I'll give the sizing die a good cleaning.
Thanks again guys.
If you're using the same brass in the same rifle all the time you can kinda neck size the brass. First see if the cleaned fired brass will chamber. If it will then just run your brass into the die enough to size around the neck. then reload the case as normal. Use a dummy round to find how much you need to work the brass to get it to work in your gun. Use the dummy round to keep your dies set. I've used this method to load .45-70, .38-55 and even .38 S&W. There is a very good chance your rounds will NOT work in another gun but then again they might. Testing is the only way to find out.
If you really want to find the root cause, you'll need to consider a chamber-cast of the rifle.
If you're only planning to load for this particular rifle, you may want to have your sizing die cut back to only neck-size the brass.
You don't give many details about the firearm, reloading press or your loading process....which would really help......but, I assume your applying lube to cartridge cases before sizing....right?
Slim
Cookie,
Bag Balm ... originally made to care for the thorn and cold damaged 'bags' of a cow. Sworn by as a propyllactic against bedsores traditionally .... you should be able to buy it in any drug store ... the can should look something like this:
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/BagBalmCan.jpg)
Howdy
What brand of brass are you using?
I reload 45-70 with a set of RCBS dies. I had some Federal brass that just would not size. Yes, I thoroughly cleaned out the die. No matter how much case lube I put on that brass, it wanted to get stuck. I bought some Winchester brass and had no problems, so now I only load 45-70 with Winchester brass.
Bag Balm!! I hate that stuff!! Hate the smell!!
Mrs Johnson insists on rubbing it on her feet all winter long. PeeYoo. That stuff stinks worse than BP smoke on a summer morning.
Try some mink oil, mine is Kiwi brand, real slick & don't smell bad
All I've used for 20 years; Imperial Die Wax
http://toolbar.inbox.com/search/results.aspx?tp=pts&src=pts&tbid=80142&q=Imperial+Die+Wax
Although originally designed for the teats of a cow to protect them during snow and thistle season (in fact, some of the early cans say 'for Veterinary use only), when I did hospital work Bag Balm was de rigeur for decubitus and pressure sores.
I guess it does have an odor of its own ... but compared to the smell of gas gangrene or a nasty staph infection, it always seemed negligible.
'Course I have been told many times that my sense of smell is gone , so I may be a bad judge of odors.
never tried cabelas case lube but one of my friends tried cabelas black powder lube. He couldnt pound the maxiballs in with a hammer---loaned him something else no problem..just idle thoughts from an idlr fellow...good luck
Very similar product called udder cream does not have the bag balm smell and is less greasy
Actually I have always used lyman or RCBS case lube and rolled the cases on my initial (17 year old) Lyman lube pad. Do not have a problem with Hornandy or Redding dies. Only have used Lees on pistols 9mm 9mm Mak, 38/357 and 44 Spec / Mag. My 45 dies are Hornandy as are all of my rifle dies except 7mm Mauser Redding.
I am using a lyman neck sizer for 45/70
I don't remember what Lube I started out with but it was worthless. I switched to Hornady's "Unique Case Lube" for my .45-70 cases. It works like a charm and a little bit goes a long way. I reload my .45-70 Cartridges on a Lee Classic Turret Press.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/758495/hornady-unique-case-lube-4-oz-tub
Cookie,
I didn't start reloading until I got my hands on a 45-70 Rolling Block in 1997. Lee D press, Lee 45-70 dies and Winchester brass. I have used nothing but Imperial Sizing Die Wax and have had no difficulties with any caliber (I load for 15 or so calibers, pistol and rifle). With the 45-70s, the brass is dedicated to each specific rifle (I have 3 of them). Make sure you clean the dies prior to using the first time and occassionally over the years. Using to much lube can be as disappointing as not using enough. The Imperial Die Wax comes in a small tin and I am still using from the first tin I bought in '97. Take a cotton swab and lube 1/2" os so inside the case mouth, too. Again, a small amount will go a loooooonnnnnnggggg way.
For my 45-70s the brass has been sized once, barring the event of the "fumble fingers" and have been shot and reloaded probably 15 to 20 times each (only with BP) and are still in good shape with no signs of stretching, splitting or cracking. Starline does say (on their website) that their cases do not "need" to be resized prior to use. You are using dies for 45-70 right? I am assuming you are, but not everybody realizes that not all 45 dies are created equal.
I have 7 sets of Lee dies. No troubles - EVER - with any of them.
I have 3 sets of RCBS dies. No troubles - EVER - with any of them.
I have 1 set of Lyman dies. No troubles - EVER - with it.
I have 6 sets of Dillon dies. No troubles - EVER - with any of them.
Call me lucky, I guess.
I use Midway's brass spray lube. Nice alcohol & citrus smell. Works fine. Have also used RCBS case lube with a pad. Worked fine, but ever since I found the Midway spray lube, I haven't looked back.
Never heard anything bad about the Imperial Die wax and it IS made as a heavy-duty lube for case forming and resizing, not just reloading resize.
Cleaning new dies before use is a must. I also spray a shot of case lube up in the resize/decap die before I begin any loading session and re-spray about every 50-75 rounds during use. Of course, cleaning ALL your dies periodically is important, plus it lets you see if any rust begins to form on any of the "unseen" parts up in the die body. In 1974, I started reloading on my Buddy's RCBS Rock Chucker Jr., then bought my Bonanza (now Forster) COAX for myself in 1982 as an Army re-enlistment present to myself. (To use for reloading rounds for my new Colt Python, which ALSO was a re-enlistment present to myself. ;) ) About 15-17 yrs. ago, my wife Billie got me an AT500 Dillon Advanced Turret Loader for Christmas, and within 18 months I had converted it to a full RL550B progressive. I also have a small Lee press I bought to resize BigLube PRS 250 boolits I cast. All of these presses have worked very well since day one. ZERO malfunctions, except once when the RL550 was new, and it turned out to be a problem with Operator Headspace & Timing.
::)
The advice about using fired brass with only minimum neck sizing if you're loading the same cases in the same rifle is excellent advice and I highly recommend it.
Have fun!!!
I've never shot real Black Powder before so I went to the range yesterday only to try out my Black Powder loads.To my surprise I did some of the best shooting ever with my Sharps. Attached is a picture of my last target. The last two shots were in the X Ring. Never ever shot like this with smokeless! My eyes are not that good consequently I'm not a good shot so I was really happy with yesterday's results.
I shot at 100 yards. My rifle is an Armi Sport from Taylors in .45-70 with a 30" barrel and a single trigger. It is fitted with a Marbles Tang sight. I ended up with 60 grains of 1-1/2 F Swiss, a 400 grain Big Lube bullet from Whyte, Winchester Magnum primers and a .060" thick Vegetable wads compressed to around .100". I used a 24" drop tube that I built. The rounds were reloaded in a Lee Classic Turret Press with Lee Dies. The cases were lubed with Hornady's Unique Case Lube. Before this I was using Trail Boss for my smokeless loads.
Many thanks to Dick Dastardly for his great help and advice in getting me started shooting Black Powder in my Sharps Also thanks to Springfield Slim of Whyte Leather Works for those fine Big Lube bullets. I will not put smokeless through my Sharps again!
Chances are pretty good if you get that powder charge up to 65 grs, even with that bullet you have , the groups will tighten up. With a better bullet in the 480-520 gr range and the same 65 grs of powder groups will likely get tighter yet.
Howdy Ranch 13,
Thanks for the input.
By the way, has anyone used Remington .45-70 Brass? It seems like everyone I call is out of Winchester or Starline .45-70 Brass.
Quote from: Johnny McCrae on December 07, 2011, 08:38:20 AM
Howdy Ranch 13,
Thanks for the input.
By the way, has anyone used Remington .45-70 Brass? It seems like everyone I call is out of Winchester or Starline .45-70 Brass.
Howdy, Johnny M! Long time- no see!
I have some N-plated Rem brass I bought when I first got my Taylor's Sharps rifle. I've only reloaded them twice or thrice. No problems so far, but as I have since found, I will NEVER buy/use nickled brass any more. Too much splitting too soon. I prefer Win brass, but Starline is certainly top quality. ALL U.S. brass is pretty good when you come right down to it.
When I first decided to step into the wonderful world of BP shooting & reloading, I called several manufacturers and talked to their tech engineers. They ALL stated that Winchester uses the softest alloy of brass and is also often the thinnest, which contributes to the apparent softness. (I talked to the techs at Sierra, Hodgdon, Speer, and another I fergit, right now. Win, I think)
My main Olde West loading experience is with 45 Colt and BP, but I did load and shoot 4-500 45-70 rounds. I've never used Starline for my 45-70, but am VERY happy with their cases for 45 Colt, 44 Russian, & soon I'll be using their 44 Colt cases.
Later ...
Johnny yes Remington brass is preferred by many, including myself, as it is usually much more uniform than ww or starline, and does not need annealing like scrapline does.
The Remington Nickle cases are the ones we use for my wife's match loads, and I use the regular rp brass for match paperpatch loads.
Thanks for the help Gents.
Ranch, I've found a source for Remington .45-70 brass and will order some.
Steel Horse, I've been using Starline's .44 colt Brass for my RM with good results.
Johnny, I got a wad punch and punch out wax paper 'shields' to put on top of my fiber wad. That'll keep the fiber wad from occasionally sticking to the base of your black powder lubed bullets,,and cut down on fliers.
Deadwood
Many thanks for the tip, Deadwood.
By the way, is trimming your case's important for just regular shooting?
You'll have to shoot a godaawful lot of bp rounds before you need to trim a 45-70 case.
Quote from: Ranch 13 on December 08, 2011, 09:48:51 AM
You'll have to shoot a godaawful lot of bp rounds before you need to trim a 45-70 case.
Indeed!
You won't have to resize more than the neck enough to get a nice friction fit for the bullet, either ... if you're shooting them from the same rifle all the time. Some only resize the neck enough that they can seat the bullets only by thumb pressure.
It's nice ... So I've heard.
Before I started custom fitting the brass in my Taylors I had to resize everytime, but still didn't have to trim any of the brass.
My Shiloh and my wifes Winchester, both have to flare the case mouth just a teensy to load with out resizing.
It is interesting to note tho that cases fired in the Shiloh won't chamber in the Winchester, the Winchester having the tighter chamber.
Interesting stuff, Gents. Many thanks. I'm learning a lot.
John Boy gave a good lesson on seating a bullet in the chamber with the eraser end of a pencil then measuring the depth with your caliper. You then measure the length of the bullet and have your cartridge OAL when you add the two together.
If you subtract the depth measurement from your case length you have the seating depth
I use Remington brass for all my blackpowder loads and Winchester for my smokeless loads...aside from what's already been said...I can tell at a glance what I've grabbed up.