Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gun Reviews => Topic started by: Haz. on February 16, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
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G-Day all.
I recently sold my Winchester 44-magnum lever action and am looking to buy a lever action shotgun. Pump actions shotguns have been banned here. I was looking at a new IAC Reproduction Cowboy 1887 12 ga, 20" barrel, Lever action shotgun. From what I have heard they are a faithfull reproduction of the John browning 1887 shotgun which was designed for black powder. Does anyone here have any experience with this shotgun. I cannot find any reviews anywhere which tell any more than the shotguns specifications.
Regards, Haz.
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I've been shooting an IAC '87 replica for about 3 years. Mine was worked on by Coyote Cap, a well known gunsmith. It runs very well. I do know the quality of the IAC '87's can be hit and miss when used straight out of the box. Please look at this web site from Coyote Cap. It gives you a check list of quality issues to review when you buy a newe IAC '87:
http://www.coyotecap.com/gunsmithingsimplified.htm
I truely enjoy shooting my '87. It's a very unique firearm action and very fun to shoot. Do note: the '87 action is very ammunition sensitive. You must use smooth walled shells for good function. The best you can buy around here are Remington STS shells or Winchester AA's.
This is a short video of my IAC '87 in action:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jutKbrh2o3M[/youtube]
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I've been shooting an IAC '87 replica for about 3 years. Mine was worked on by Coyote Cap, a well known gunsmith. It runs very well. I do know the quality of the IAC '87's can be hit and miss when used straight out of the box. Please look at this web site from Coyote Cap. It gives you a check list of quality issues to review when you buy a newe IAC '87:
http://www.coyotecap.com/gunsmithingsimplified.htm
I truely enjoy shooting my '87. It's a very unique firearm action and very fun to shoot. Do note: the '87 action is very ammunition sensitive. You must use smooth walled shells for good function. The best you can buy around here are Remington STS shells or Winchester AA's.
This is a short video of my IAC '87 in action:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jutKbrh2o3M[/youtube]
Thanks for your reply and information. Sorry I'm late getting back to you, my P-c's been playing up. I placed an order for one to-day. The guy who owns the gun shop I am buying it from has one himself and will let me handle his and make up my mind before I buy. I am keen to have one to use hunting ferel pigs on a property in the Northern Territory Down Under. Thick swampy scrubby country. Crockodiles and all! Enjoyed the vidio, tahnks again mate, Regards, Haz.
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Are these Italian or Chinese made?
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The IAC is Chinese. The Chiappa is Italian. The Italian '87's are really nice but very pricey.
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Abilene, are the Italian '87's made any better INTERNALLY and just what is the street price? ???
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I think the internals should be about the same, even if they are, do you want to buy a product from the Red Chinese or a NATO ally?
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I do not know about the internals, I think they are fairly authentic to originals. I know that they feel really smooth. As to street price, I guess it depends on the dealer but I'd expect maybe $1100 or so.
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G-Day M8's.
Virginia Gentleman wrote, "I think the internals should be about the same, even if they are, do you want to buy a product from the Red Chinese or a NATO ally?"
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Unfortunately for me the only ones being imported here are the I A C, Chinese made lever action shotguns. I priced one locally and they retail for $909 au.
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I was informed that Cap Coyote has closed his shop ... it's a shame 'cause I really like the shogun he worked on for me.
His son did all the stock Laser work and he made a window pane design on the pistol grip and foream that I love ... it gets of 110 degrees here in July-August, and this checkering has never slipped .....
I have enclosed a pic of the pistol grip to show the detail....
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I was informed that Cap Coyote has closed his shop ... it's a shame 'cause I really like the shogun he worked on for me.
I can inform all POSITIVELY , Cap Coyote is NOT closing shop/ going out of business.
After reading this rumour, I sent a message to him and got back a reply within hours stating that the rumour is false in all respects.
If anyone would prefer to doubt this, I will copy/reprint his message to me, but that in itself is pretty hard to qualify/verify.
I will forward the personal message through email if that is preferred.
Cap asked that I help put a halt to the "total fabrication" as he put it.
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Cabalero Chuck,
Kudos to you! You did what I should have done in the first place ... have gone to the source!
As I said in my last post, I was certainly sorry that he had closed; I am so glad to be wrong!
He takes a shotgun that will probably work fine and turns it into a work of art ..... I prefer mine to any Stoeger SXS (and I own one) ... even over my first love, an old Baikal SXS (okay, I'm fickle, but ya gotta shoot one of these !)
My only comment about the weapon, and I beleive that John M Browning would stand behind me on it, is that the lever must be worked with ... uh ... alacrity? Otherwise the spent shell is carried by the bolt and ends up with the metal part of the cartridge
slamming into the reciever ... or am I wrong about this too? *S*
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I can inform all POSITIVELY , Cap Coyote is NOT closing shop/ going out of business.
After reading this rumour, I sent a message to him and got back a reply within hours stating that the rumour is false in all respects.
If anyone would prefer to doubt this, I will copy/reprint his message to me, but that in itself is pretty hard to qualify/verify.
I will forward the personal message through email if that is preferred.
Cap asked that I help put a halt to the "total fabrication" as he put it.
Little Late to the fire, just talking to him last week. He seemed as busy as ever
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I sent this email to Coyote Cap .... and again I am sorry for any misinformation that I may have caused ....
Coyote Cap/Mark,
Without checking with you, I reported on cascity.com that you had closed your shop down.
I should have spoken with you first ... and I want to extend my utmost apologies for not trying to get in touch first. I took what I had heard and ran with it stupidly ....
I have always had the utmost respect for your shop .... in fact, I had your son put that 'Windowpane' laser checking on my stock and foregrip and have loved it ever since.
After a year, I am still trying to learn the right movements to do the two shell reload on time, but that is much more my lack of spending the time to put it into my muscle memory than anything to do with the rifle. I also fire a short-stroke Codymatic Model '73, and I have found that if I fire that first on a stage I have to remember to lever the Model '87 farther and with more force than the Codymatic .... again, my responsibity to remember.
I am going to try to copy this message into the cascity.com thread where IAC Model 87s are being discussed.
Best wishes,
SASS # 84743
AKA Wadd Watson Ellis
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I own an IAC '87 that my wife gave me about 4 years ago. I had Cody Conagher smooth it out some. It is very nice and reliable. I visited Taylors a couple of months ago and had the opportunity to handle an Italian '87. There is a big difference in fit, quality, finish and function. Much more solid. VERY strong and well built. Very pricey.
Talked to a rep at IAC and it is doubtful that they will be getting any more '87's. Read somewhere today that they are not going to import '97's any more either (think it was Coyote Cap's site.)
I know of a supplier that has 59 of the IAC 97W's left and 100 of the IAC Trench guns left. Supposedly, when they are gone, that's it. PM me for more info if interested and need info.
MJJ
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This may be a little late for Haz, but my wife and I have bought the Chiappa '87. Hers had a shortened barrel with a compensator on it (an illegal mod for us we know) and had to have the barrel replaced and is the chrome model. Whilst at it we had the drop 2 fitted. This brought the total to A$2000.00 with the drop 2 having to be fitted and only 3 screws undone and it is back to normal. It is now the ONLY shotgun she wishes to use and (luckily) allowed in classic.
Mine is colour case and did not need any fitting for the drop 2 (apparently I jagged the right one) and cost me A$1500.00.
The drop 2 ONLY allows 2 shells to be loaded. No more.
The IAC has a dimple on the carrier that fits into a corresponding recess in the mag tube follower and it acts as a stop, but if you get a little too excited, you bypass this stop and it then becomes a std loading into the mag tube.
This is an advantage when out in the scrub, but can be disconcerting when on the firing line.
Now. Having said all that, there have been a few IAC buyers here in Aus that have been disappointed because the Chinese (in their infinite wisdom) modified the original design by Cap and REMOVED the dimple. One gent sent his over to Cap to have it fixed apparently and he is now quite happy but that was definately additional expense.
For me, I feel the Italian one is of better quality and that us reflected in the cost. There have been NO issues and my wife and I are extremely pleased with them. Replaceable chokes and they produce an extremely tight pattern that a 7/8 oz load will knock down any target before it.
It all boils down to how much you wish to part with.
Hope this helps Haz.
Regards
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I think the internals should be about the same, even if they are, do you want to buy a product from the Red Chinese or a NATO ally?
didn't the Italians ally with Hitler?
I would rather have one off the Winchester line....I don't think it would be affordable even if they opened a line up to produce them.
I bought mine thru Coyote Cap....he stands behind his sales
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didn't the Italians ally with Hitler?
Why litl rooster, yes they did. And today the communist party enjoys a great many supporters. Though they cancel each other out, does it make me a fascist commie for owning Eye-talian guns? Hmmm.
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Easy, boys.......
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I think the internals should be about the same, even if they are, do you want to buy a product from the Red Chinese or a NATO ally?
I recently took the plunge and bought one of the Chiappa '87 clones.
It is a much better shotgun than the IAC '87.
Better wood
Better metal finish
Better machining on the internals.
Much smoother action
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I recently took the plunge and bought one of the Chiappa '87 clones.
It is a much better shotgun than the IAC '87.
Better wood
Better metal finish
Better machining on the internals.
Much smoother action
are you going to do a side by side video and keep us informed?
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Hi Lil,
I hadn't planned to ... in fact, this is the only pic I have of my Model '87 in use ....
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/TexicanRangersX001.jpg)
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I recently took the plunge and bought one of the Chiappa '87 clones.
It is a much better shotgun than the IAC '87.
Better wood
Better metal finish
Better machining on the internals.
Much smoother action
Just to keep things in perspective it is also three times the cost of a well-tuned IAC and weighs more.
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Just to keep things in perspective it is also three times the cost of a well-tuned IAC and weighs more.
I bought my "tuned" IAC from Coyote Cap back in '06. It cost me around $650 then. The same gun now days costs almost $1100 (see Cap's web site: http://www.coyotecap.com/mod__87_wcse2.htm (http://www.coyotecap.com/mod__87_wcse2.htm)
I've heard rumor that the Chinese supply of these IAC '87s has dried up. If true, no more Chinese '87's.
I bought the Chiappa "like-new" for under $1000.
I have not put them on scales, but if there is a weight difference, I cannot feel it in my hands.
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Gents
Curious to know if anyone has tried to refinish the buttstock on the IAC '87s? The finish out of the box is, well, less than pleasing. Is it actually wood or some man made material? I have gotten pretty good at defarbing the wood on Italian 1861 Springfield musket/rifles for Civil War reenacting and wonder if these Chinese versions could made to look a bit better as well.
Harley
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Hi,
I got mine from Cap Coyote with lasering already done by his son ... and if you like it, he will take your gun and put lasering on it too ...
My point being that I believe my stock and fore-end was wood ... but that was several years ago; things may have changed.
Still, I cannot imagine any builder using wood 'products' to make a stock and fore-end ... sounds like heresy!
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/CapCoyoteModel87-1.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/CapCoyteModel87Jeweling.jpg)
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Thank you for your insight. Dont want the lazering thing done nor do I want the 2 drop system installed. Local shop has a nearly new IAC 87-1 which (if I am reading all the posted infor correctly) can be a decent functional version of the 1887 although not as good looking as the Chiappa version. If I purchase this particular peice, the wood is rather dark odd colored tone and so, I would defarb the wood. The wood on your peice is nice looking and so, I am now confident that there is a decent look to be had with this shotgun.
If memory serves, some years back a pard of mine had a cheap version of a '92 rifle with an odd substance of buttstock. It was probably some type of wood but of a foreign species that I was not familar with. It was so dense that he couldnt get it refinished worth beans. Cant remember the maker nor importer and truth be told, not even sure if it was a '92. Time dulls the memory it seems.
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Harleydavis,
Don't know what to tell you .... mine is a Norinco and is probably an entirely different species of wood ... but since Cap Coyote works on all types of Model 87s, there is a good chance he might have some information on the speicies that you are looking at ...I would give him an email just in case ... his website is:
http://www.coyotecap.com/
Another good source might be the actual company ... they might know the wood that they used for this run of shotguns ... so I would send them most of the serial # and see what they have to say:
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/
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I actually live just 40 miles from Cap's shop and can easily stop in I suppose. Since I went into CW reenacting 10yrs ago, I havent talked to him in the interim. Imagine I should just go to the source.