Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Frontier Iron => Topic started by: Captain John Jarrett on October 09, 2010, 06:57:14 PM
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Gents,
Please take a look and let me know what you think. The bluing that is missing has for the most part flaked off and there is very little if any pitting anywhere on the revolver. Both frame to receiver and cylinder lockup are tight as a drum. Bore is bright with defined lands and grooves.
A couple of question's though! In comparision to my Mk.V the cylinder looks almost as if it had been cut for .45 ACP, but as you can see in the photos it has not been shaved so I would appreciate any insite into this area. There are no marking whatsoever on the top of the frame or barrel. How common would this have been?
Also, I really like the gents name engraved in the backstrap. Really brings out the history of the revolver. Wonder who he was?
Can't wait to use it in an NCOWS shoot. Sorry the pictures are not great, the battery was running down.
Regards, John.
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The cylinder markings:
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That is really nice, way cool.
You're right, looking at the cylinder & markings it is uncut. What part looks like something would be altered to ACP? Did you check the fit of .455 brass? I would think if it was uncut a 45 auto-rim or ACP with clips would not even let it close. If I remember right there usually were no marks on the top-strap unless put there by the retailer. Cool that it has a name on the back-strap.
You plan on shooting BP in it? Hollow base bullets?
If you ever want to trade it for cowboy guns or maybe even money please let me know.
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If I could only have one handgun the Webley Green is the one I would choose,how do you lick the Smooth double action pull
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Gents,
Thanks for the good words on the piece, she is very nice. However it is the gap between the rear of the cylinder to the recoil shield is what has me wondering if somebody might have done some mods. at some point in time.
Also, I know there is some disagreement as to whether it is Webley "Green" or Webley "Government" but which ever you choose, the action is smooth as glass!
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How much headspace is there? The .455 rim thickness is .035. Will a .45 Cowboy Special rim, about .05, fit? If so you have saved yourself a lot of trouble in acquiring workable cases.
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Gents,
If I have these in correct order the first pic should be of the cylinder full of .455 and the rounds fully seated, the second is of the .455 with the revolver leaned back and the rounds touching the recoil shield (notice the amount outside of the cylinder), and the third is of the cylinder full of .44 Russian (for reference only as I do not have any .45 Colt, I also do not know what the difference in rim thickness is between the Russian and the Colt) but .44 rim thickness most definitely fits the revolver better than the .455
I have also included shots of the recoil shield, not the best pictures, but to me it looks like normal scratches from the cartridges and no mill work having been performed.
So! What say the wise gentlemen on this esteemed board? I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards, John.
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Here is another:
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Judging from your photos - yours is a standard, un-cut revolver - for the .455 Mk1 cartridge.
The Webley-Green was built as a target revolver (the 'Green' being named for the inventor of the stirrup lock).
If the individual's rank and Regiment are engraved - a very common practice - the original owner is traceable.
Nice Piece.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Here is the backstrap:
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Is the rim thickness different Mk.I to Mk.II?
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Here is the book;
http://www.amazon.com/Revolvers-Revised-William-Chipchase-Dowells/dp/9993963860
I don't have access to a copy at present but hope to remedy that, when I have $165 to spare!
I just checked the rim thickness of the .44 Russ and .45 Colt. They are about the same, about .050 to .055 with my Chinese digital calipers.
If there is free spin I think you can get away with .45 Cowboy Special cases. They are a .45 LC rim & head with a .45ACP body with a length of .89. The Webley MK I case is .87 long with a .035 rim thickness. I would use .45 Spl cases myself but ONLY WITH BLACK POWDER in the Webley Green.
DO NOT USE FULL LENGTH .45 COLT CASES! Check your chamber. If it is anything like the Webley MK VI chamber it won't be stepped but will be tapered. If you use an over long case the mouth of the case will be choked where it holds the bullet. NEI does make a mould for a hollow base bullet useful in the Webley, but that is not the only bullet that will work.
These are my thoughts. Use your own judgment and gather other opinions before heading to the range.
BTW; What is the name and Regiment?
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Sir Charles,
I know the backstrap pictures are lousy, hard to get a good angle on the rounded surface. The name engraved on the backstrap is A.I. Martin and that's it, nothing else. Also, I would love to have the Webley book, have been keeping my eyes peeled for a copy for quite awhile now.
In regard to the chamber and using full length .45 LC brass: I have been told because the revolver was chambered for the .455/.476, and subsequently will fire both the .455 & .476, the cylinder would have been made with the chambers bored straight through due to the fact that the original .476 round had a very bulbous shape. The later service Mk.'s, which were based on the WG, chambered the .455 only. Had you ever come across that info?
That does not mean I will disregard your advise however, it will help me in coming up with the proper brass and load for the revolver.
Regards, John.
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I have never had an older Webley in my hands, but you are probably correct. My caution is based more on safety. It is still a break-open design and is old. Therefore use a load close to the originals. Mine takes about 21 grains of FFFg in .89 length cases. This will vary somewhat depending on the bullet used.
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I have a Webley Mk VI made approximently 1916
Mine has a broad arrow on the top strap pointing out the reverse roation of the cylinder
The serial # is 244XXX
There are two crown imprints on the left side of the topstrap side, one with 'GB'imprinted below it and one ithe '29' imprinted below it
There is another crown imprint with possibly WF below it just below and aft of the releasing lever of the 'stirrup lock (?)'
There is another stamp with the crown marking and '28 on the left forward trigger guard, and a broad arrow pointing forward on the trigger itself.
The serial number is repeated on the frame in front of the trigger guard and on the barrel just ahead of the half moon ledge that is just foware of the hinge.
There are several more crowns imprinted into the 'half moon ledge just ahead of the hinge itself ....
On the backstrap itself, it reads 8. 20 with an arrow struck through it.
Below that on the backstrap is a capital Y. that has been struck through ...
Below that (finally) are the letters 51. that has been struck through...
I would love to know any history tied to ths pistol ... my email is on my profile should you wish to contact me otherwise than this thread ...
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/WebleyMkVIHolster.jpg)
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Updating my first post ....
Mine was unfortunately cut down for .45ACP with monn clips .... however, it fires .45Auto Rim with no moon clips, and the ejectors actually 'catch' the rims and eject the ammo.
I did have one problem shooting .45ACP orAuto Rim. I used to sell my used brass back, but the shop I used to sell it to stopped taking it because the cylinder of the .455 would allow the cases to bulge slightly, making them difficult to resize and be reused in a M-1911A
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WWE said on Nov 12,10; "Mine has a broad arrow on the top strap pointing out the reverse roation of the cylinder"
Wadd; I didn't pay attention earlier, but that is most certainly the "Broad Arrow" denoting military service use.
You havn't knuckled under to my suggestion and bought a LEE handpress kit to reload for this ol' babe?
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Very nice Webley Green :)
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The perfect (for me ) load would be .45 Schofield, but alas, no cigar!
The first pic shows the Webley loaded with Schofields ... the ammo does not quite go in all the way, leaving a 'silly milimeter' of the casing sticking out ... just enough to allow the stirrups not to close ...
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/WebleywithSchofieldammostirrupopen.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/Webleywith45ACPandMoonClipsStirrupClosed.jpg)
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The perfect (for me ) load would be .45 Schofield, but alas, no cigar!
The first pic shows the Webley loaded with Schofields ... the ammo does not quite go in all the way, leaving a 'silly milimeter' of the casing sticking out ... just enough to allow the stirrups not to close ...
Trim your cases back a bit?
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Strawhat,
Were I a reloader, that would be a definite option. The Schofield casing is only about .2" longer than a.45 ACP .... but since a friend does my reloading and has all the equipment, I am thinking it would be easier to buy .45 auto rim and load it with Goex cowboy loads
and a 220 gr RNFP ....
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Strawhat,
Were I a reloader, that would be a definite option. The Schofield casing is only about .2" longer than a.45 ACP .... but since a friend does my reloading and has all the equipment, I am thinking it would be easier to buy .45 auto rim and load it with Goex cowboy loads
and a 220 gr RNFP ....
WWE; Will moon clips enable a fit?
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Sir Charles,
Moon clips definitely work; the second pic in my previous post was the WEbley locked and loaded and ready with .45 ACP...
But I am thinking that if I bought about a hundred Auto Rin casings and had them built up with Goex 'Cowboy' loads and a 200+ gr RNFP, I would not risk the nickname of lety as much as I would with an accidental loading of a full power .45 ACP round ... LOL
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WaddWatson Ellis, I think that even if your Schofield cases were trimmed, they still wouldn't work, the rim is too thin....about the same thickness as .45 colt. It needs that extra thick rim of the AR case to get th right headspace.
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Pony Express,
I think the case is just too long ... the brass might be too thin as well, but the brass stants proud of the cylinder and will not allow the bullet to fully seat.... and It cand't be the bullet, 'cause the bullet is a standard .45 cal. And the bullet and case length over all is not longer than the cylinder ... it has to be that the taper of they cylinder does not allow the casing to go all the way in ...