Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Colt Firearms => Topic started by: St. George on April 04, 2010, 01:08:10 PM
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St. George's Notes XXXV - The Colt New Service...
« on: December 03, 2007, 12:32:06 PM »
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One thing about folks in the Old West - they weren't afraid of innovation and new things, when it came to firearms.
One of the 'new things' was the Colt 'New Service' revolver that came about in November, 1898 - though you'll see 'Aug. 5, 1884' on the barrel.
That refers to the Carl J. Ehbets patent covering the swingout cylinder.
Standard barrel length is 7 1/2", though 4 1/2" and 5 1/2" are common as are lanyard loops.
It's a large-frame double action, built for large-caliber ammunition, and is 'legal in NCOWS.
Here's a synopsis:
Old Model - 1898-1909 - standard frame - #0 - 21,000
Target Model - 1900-1909
1909 Transition Model - standard and Target - #21,000 - 23,000
Improved Model, standard and Target - 1909-1917 - #23,000-143,000
1909 U.S. Military/1914 British Military - 1914-1917 - #65,000-139,000
1917 U.S. Army - 1917-1919 - #150,000-305,000
Improved Model - standard and Target - 1919-1928 - #303,000-328,000
Late Model - standard and Target - 1928 - End of Production - #328,000 - 356,914
All the New Service variations were numbered in a single series from 0 through approximately 357,000.
(Sutherland - 'The Book of Colt Firearms'; Graham, Kopec and Moore - 'A Study of the Colt Single Action Army'; Serven - 'Colt Firearms')
This is a 'large' revolver - like the old Model 1878 - and it's doubtful if many saw a lot of holster use as opposed to saddlebag use, since the need to repel attackers was less prevalent by their time of introduction, though activities remained 'sudden' along the Mexican Border.
It was a powerful piece - proving to be extremely popular with military and law enforcement clients, the six shot revolver was offered in a bewildering variety of chamberings, including .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .38-40, .38-44, .44-40, .44 Smoothbore, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .45 ACP, .45 Auto Rim, .45 Smoothbore, .45 Long Colt, .450 Eley, .455 Eley and .476 Eley.
A look at the 'Blue Book' and on the various auction sites will show prices all over the range - so condition is paramount.
If it's parkerized - it's a WWII-refinished piece - if it's 'brush blue - it's a WWI piece, since the military's demands weren't as stringent as those of the civilian purchaser's and a non-reflective surface was pretty desireable.
Other finishes were Colt's commercial blue in use at the time, with a few in nickel, and those early blued guns are quite beautiful, featuring fire-blued screws, hammer and trigger.
Regrettably - that wasn't always a truly durable finish and could be prone to flaking - ala' that od the various .38 D.A. Models 1892, '94, '96, '01 and '03 - resulting in Government refinishes and upgrades.
Though double-action - it has a long, hard trigger pull - and that's with a fitted action, so the hand span needed leaves smaller-sized shooters at a disadvantage, unless it's thumb-cocked.
Do you need one?
Hard to say - but the Old Model was used during the waning days of the Frontier, and the Model 1909 saw active service before we selected the M1911, and it carried on long after as a powerful revolver for an outdoorsman's use.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Got one of the British Military ones, lettered as shipped to London in 1916. Originaly chambered in .455 Ely, was some time later repatriated and rechambered to .45 Colt. Whoever did it did a lovely job, as instead of facing off the cylinder for the thicker Colt rim, he countersank the rim and extractor, still allowing the use of .455 if desired. Lovely DA pull on it. One of 3 DA Colts I use for GAF, the others being a New Army and Navy .38, and an Army Special .38.
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Between 1911 and 1914, the majority of New Service revolvers went to fulfill law enforcement contracts. For example, during this time, approximately 1,000 going to the Cuban "Guardia Rural," between 300 and 400 going to the Canadian Royal North West Mounted Police, and some 230 to the New York State Police. However, the order that was to put the New Service "on the map" was not long coming.
In 1914, England found itself embroiled in the First World War and in desperate need of revolvers.
Large orders were placed with Colt, and 5.5" barreled New Services cast in the role of .455 British military revolvers began to surface in significant numbers around serial number 65,000 in 1914, and continue until the middle of 1917 with serial number 139,000.
The guns were sent in regular large shipments, as these excerpts from Colt shipping records indicate:
Date No. Guns SN Range
11-23-14 450 69,000
12-17-14 650 70,000
12-30-16 400 125,000
Colt was to manufacture upwards of 55,000 .455 New Service revolvers for British and Commonwealth armed forces.
The majority of these were directly purchased by the British government and bear broad arrow government acceptance markings, as well as various inspection and proof marks.
Not all New Service revolvers used by British forces in the war will bear official markings. British officers were expected to furnish their own kit, with a sidearm being only one of the required items.
As a result, many British and Canadian officers purchased New Services commercially for use as their personal sidearms. These personally purchased sidearms may bear personal engravings, but are devoid of official markings.
Most of the wartime New Service revolvers chambered for the .455 cartridge can be identified by a capital letter E stamped on the grip frame under the left grip. The earlier British contract guns, specifically those manufactured and delivered in 1914 have the same highly polished, mirror-like blue of the regular commercial production guns.
As the contract progressed, the finish went first to a satin blue, and later to a flat military finish.
While in English service, some were refinished by a method known as "stoving" which involves painting the firearm in question with a black enamel and then baking the finish on in an oven.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Yep, mine has the capitol "E" under the grip, His Majestys goverment (George V) inspection stamps, and the mid range satin finish.
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BTT per request. Love that big ol NS.
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I've located a New Service Model made in 1903 in 44/40. Now I have to come up the money. So many toys, So little money!
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I just let a beautiful one go - a British Officer's purchase in .455 - about 98% original finish.
Nice piece - 'way' too big for my paw for it to have a natural feel - took a 3d Generation Colt SAA in .45 in trade.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Ive got one made in 1903 .45 colt Make me an offer or trade
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St. George,
Do you have any information on the number of Late Model New Services that were produced in .45 ACP?
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Only the ones in the 1917 Military range, as appears in the text above.
Nothing on the Commercial range, that I can readily get to - but the available calibers can be all over the place, insofar as serial numbers go.
Send me a PM, tell me what you have, or are thinking about - and I'll see what I can help you with.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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St. George:
Found this thread and you've got my interest up. I knew the 1892 series had been approved by NCOWS. What I didn't know was that the New Service was also. You're certain of this? I only ask, because I sure want one, but don't want to spend the money if there is no venue in CAS to shoot it. I've made that mistake before.
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Preacher Clint,
You bet I'm certain - it was a pre-1899 design, after all - and you'll even find this article in a fairly recent copy of 'The Shootist'.
I will say this, though - it's a 'very' large revolver and I found it to be too big for my own hand to fire naturally unless I shot it in single-action mode, so I traded mine for a new Colt SAA.
Might be fine for someone shooting two-handed, though.
I'd recommend shooting and handling one before I bought my own.
Good Hunting!
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Well, I just won a 1909 New Service in 45LC on Gunbroker. Will post some pictures when it arrives. I'm excited. :)
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If you mirror the service .45 Colt load - you'll get your best accuracy.
Congratulations!
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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What was the service load, if you don't mind sharing it here on the forum? Also, should I use .454 bullets? Not a problem, because that is what I usually shoot anyway.
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Service load would be a .454 250 grainer between 850-900 fps. Pre WW2 .45 Colts will have .454 barrels.
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What a lovely thread! I haven't visited CAS City for a while, and this is a wonderful treat to find waiting for me!
Anyway... I adore the big New Service revolvers. I've had several of them, my first one was a .44-40 with no finish on it whatsoever, but shot pretty well. 5½" barrel.
Next I got (and still have) a beat-to-death-on-the-outside 1914 British Contract gun, that also was converted nicely to .45 Colt by countersinking the cylinder face for the deeper rims. Still shoots .455's nicely that way! What's cool though is that although it looks like it was issued to some ship that went down in the Mediterranean and stayed underwater for a few years, it still shoots beautifully, and the lock work is totally clean and polished. The normal 5½" barrel.
I only recently traded off a nice M1917 I had owned for years, in .45ACP of course. Good old gun that I carried a fair amount, but a friend had to have one for his collection, and he made me the right offer, so... oh well! It does have a good home though! Issue 5½" barrel, of course.
Finally is a REALLY sweet pre-1904 New Service in .45 Long Colt, with the 7½" barrel. Most of the blue still on it. I'm almost afraid to shoot it it's so nice! When I got it it had a pair of 1930's plastic grips on it, so I swapped them out for a proper set of bakelite grips, and now it looks "right". Darned big gun though, I had to admit!
It's a very difficult proposition deciding which I like better, the Single Action Army or the New Service (or the M1911 for that matter!) I love all of them dearly, and would be very, very hard pressed were someone to say "you can only have just one, I'm afraid". That would break my heart! It would probably have to be an SAA, but Lord, it would be a tough decision, and I'm really not positive as to which choice I would make in the end!
Thanks again for a great thread. Gotta love those big old New Services! Sad that Colt never brought that frame back, they are (in my humble opinion) head and shoulders above the Smith big-frame revolvers, and would have made a wonderful platform for the .44 Mag when that cartridge came out. Oh well, Colt ain't the company that it used to be, I'm afraid...but thank God they still exist!
Cheers!
Gordon
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I've often thought that, in my days in the Gulf, running patrol boats, if I could have had any sidearm I wanted, it would have been that .45 NS. Seaching a dhow, or cutting a fouled anchor away from a fishing boat in an off limits seaway, a sidearm with a high intimidation factor is a fine thing to have, and nothing intimidates like the buisness end of a .45 NS. Nice in a close quick reaction enviorment not to worry about safetys, just point and squeeze . . .
I also thought that most of the security personel over there would have been far better served with some sort of DA revolver. The NG troops never seemed to get proficient on the M-9, and most of the females would have had better control with a revolver grip. (I'm retired, so I can be politically incorrect now)
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It is a good all around firearm.
This one was made in 1903 and spent most of its life on the Mexican border in New Mexico.Maybe shot at a bandido or two. the way things are going ,it may get another chance.
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This is my New Service 45LC that I took possession of today. It shoots like a dream and is tight. Of course, it has been reblued and tuned, but I wanted a shooter and this certainly fills the bill. Besides, it is awesomely pretty.
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BTW - I forgot to mention that there are two notches files across the backstrap. Not sure what they represent, but apparently there is some history in this old gun.
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I have looked in Servins book and The History of the Colt Revolver but did not find my answer. I am looking at a .45 LC New Service built after 1928. It has a straight untapered barrel. Is this correct or has it been rebarreled? The barrel is properly marked. I thought the non tapered barrels were only on the Model 1909 and earlier guns.
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I have looked in Servins book and The History of the Colt Revolver but did not find my answer. I am looking at a .45 LC New Service built after 1928. It has a straight untapered barrel. Is this correct or has it been rebarreled? The barrel is properly marked. I thought the non tapered barrels were only on the Model 1909 and earlier guns.
In R.L.Wilson's The Book of Colt Firearms the late models should have the tapered barrel,BUT,he notes many of the late features were introduced over a period of years in the late 20's-early 30's starting at serial no. aprox.325,000.If the finish on the barrel is consistent with the rest of the revolver it most likely is original.Colt's of this period often have features that don't meet the standard descriptions.My guess is if an older part was in the bin during assembly it got used.I have an Army Special that the serial number falls into the Official Police serial range by quite a bit.Around 1928 when a lot of the models changed or parts changed there is a lot of disparity in what is in the books and what actually was used at the time.
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JimBob
Thanks for the info.
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Monday I purchased a 44-40 New Service 308XXX. 4 in tapered barrel and it looks brand new. After getting it home in a different light it may have been reblued. If it was I paid too much, if it is original I got a decent deal. The roll mark 2 line address on the barrel is a bit faint on the top line, all other markings on the pistol are crisp. All in all I am pretty happy with it. I wish I not such a dunce when it comes to pictures and posting of same as I would send a picture.
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I have three new service revolvers. A 44-40 made in 1905, a 38-40 made in 1923, and a 45 colt made in 1925. They are great old guns.
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When buying - take along a 'good' flashlight, like the ones built by 'Surefire'.
Either that - or inspect the weapon in natural sunlight.
It's the best way to determine re-blueing and crispness of lettering.
The blued finish on early Colts is somewhat 'fragile' - for lack of a better term - but shows as a shade of 'blue', while modern blueing has a far, far, 'blacker' hue.
Gun show and gun shop lighting hides a multitude of sins.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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My Colt NS is marked '.455 Eley', a commercial model, 90-95% overall. The bluing wear is all on the backstrap, like most NS. Lovely gun!
As for the odd grip frame, that's easily solved with a grip adapter or a custom set of grips that fill in the frame to trigger guard gap, leaving the backstrap exposed. S&Ws benefit from the same.
Even with the adapter, I have difficulty single action cocking the gun, finding it much easier to fire DA with both hands or thumb cocking with the left thumb as per any single action revolver. It's an awe inspiring gun, but no more so than a SAA, a 1911 (or any .44), if you were looking down that big hole.