Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Shooter's Meeting => Topic started by: Will Pluggum on February 27, 2004, 06:39:35 AM
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Gents.....bein' a greenhorn to CAS, I'm not up to speed in more ways then one. Like to ask why Winchester levers are not popular for CAS competition. Seems Marlin is the favorite by far. Muchas gracias....
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Howdy Slim,
Do you mean Winchester 94s? or the Winchester replicas of the 92, 73, 66 and Henry?
The 73 and 66 replicas are very popular. There are a good number of the 92s out there as well.
The Win 94 is made for a rifle length cartridge and it has a long throw of the lever. It's not a bad choice to get started, but it's not the best and you can usually get a Marlin or Rossi for about the same $$. If buying American made is improtant to you, then you only have the Win and Marlin as options.
Keep askin' questions, we're here to help ya.
Adios,
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Sedona, first welcome to Cas City and to W&CAS (Western & Cowboy Action Shooting).
It 's not that Winchesters aren't popular. The Clones as well as originals of the 66s, 73s and 92s (well not many original 66s) :)
are very popular. The problem with the 94 is that it was designed as a rifle caliber action and just doesn't lend itself to the pistol calibers. There are some that function fine but mant take alot of work before they are exceptable. Even then they have a longer throw than other models.
The most popular rifles for the top shooters are probably the toggle link actions, the 73s and 66 clones. They are more costly but even new out of the box are pretty smooth.
Besides they look really cool 8) I find the modern Marlin to be one of the ugliest rifles around ;)
Will Ketchum
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fellers...yes, I did mean the model 94 that you can buy for less than $400. So the longer throw slows you down and the action is a little stiff. Also maybe some feed problems with .38s, I understand. Thought it would be an affordable entry level lever gun but I'll keep looking. I like that new marlin compitition cowboy ( though I prefer the Winchesters looks and heft) but it's close to twice the money.Yikes! Thanks for the help.....Slim
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Slim,
Look at the 1894C or carbine from Marlin. Under $400, brand new, just about everywhere. It's the same action as the cowboy. The best rifle bargain in CAS.
Are you looking at 357/38 as your cartridge?
Adios,
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Yes, .357/.38. I've wanted a lever gun in this caliber for years and now that I'm getting into CAS I have no more excuses to not buy Another lever action. Besides, everything I read recommends this cal. for competition I will look at the marlin, you don't happen to have a web address where I can find the Rossi line of levers, do you?
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Rossi makes the 92s in Brazil.
Check out EMF, Navy Arms and LSI as the importers. You can also check out the auction sites and just look for 92s.. most there are clones by now.
Adios,
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Thanks Big Fin....I think I'll go take a look........Sedona Slim
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Thanks Big Fin....I think I'll go take a look........Sedona Slim
Ain't never been called Big Fin before..
Do I look like a shark?
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Beg pardon Big Hext Finnigan....some times I take short cuts to reduce typing, guess i shouldn't do it with alias.....by the way how did you get that fin photo found and attached so fast! Maybe you should go by Big Lightning or maybe Big Warp Speed!!!!
P.S. is Puma and Rossi one and the same?
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No apology.. I've been called worse.. Jst never been called that particular combination. I'm taking advantage of the quick posting features.. Loading up for a showdown with JW Neely and Redbeard Slim. It's gonna be a shootemup fersure.
As for the Puma, yep, it's a Rossi.
Adios,
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Sounds like fun...maybe after I get up to speed here I'll join in, that is, if there's an empty chair at the card table......
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Slim, where do ya hail from? Out west here there's a sporting goods store called "Big 5". They sell some long guns. One of 'em is a Marlin, usually had for less than $300. A real good gun for CAS.
The 94 just isn't. This game is not what it's designed for.
You might be able to pick up some good used guns. You could try the Classifieds on the SASS Wire (http://www.sassnet.com) and Frontier Spot (http://www.frontierspot.org) .
Doc
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Hi Doc....I'm in the Phoenix, Az area and we have the Big 5 stores. Will take a look. If there still sellin' Marlins for $300 I'd better snap one up before they wise up! Best Price I've found so far is $406 + fees. I'm beginning to see that the winchester, thou a fine rifle, is not meant for this type of shooting. You brought up used gear. I'm thinking there's gotta be a lot of people who got into the sport and then decided to get out and have guns for sale, also those moving to new gear and selling their old. I guess these forums would be the best place to find those deals......Thanks to all for the warm welcome....Sedona Slim
Understand theres a CAS shoot at Reo Salado Range east of Phoenix Sat the 6th...looking forward to going..My first..
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The Big 5 Marlins have a different stock (birch rather than walnut) but still a great value.
Right now, the SASS wire has the most activity in merchandise. TFS gets some activity. The best idea for you is to find a local club and network there.
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Yeh, I agree. Hooking up with my local club is the way to go. That would be at Reo Salado Range, about 30 minutes from my house. Their next shoot is Mar 6 , I'm looking forward to it. What is TIF?
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What is TIF?
Do you mean TFS? The Frontier Spot
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Slim, like Big Fin, I mean Hext said the local clubs can be great sourse for used gear. Clothing, hats and leather besides guns. Most local matches I have attended have tables set up where shooters leave the stuff they have to sell.
Just like any shooting sport pards buy guns for what ever reason and then want something else. Me I usually keep most of my guns and that is how I end up with so many ;D
Will Ketchum
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Sedona Slim,
Welcome in town. I have used my '94 (Trails End model) since 1997 and I am not planning on replacing it. You need to use some extra force levering the gun compared to the 66, 73 and 92's.
The best advise has been given to you. Check in with a local club and try out the guns the members are using. You'll soon get a top five list to your liking. Then have fun shopping around. Since you live in Phoenix, check in with Tombstone Pardee at Legendary Guns. Follow this link for details:
http://www.legendaryguns.com/CASHome.htm
Welcome to our family, pard.
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Howdy, Sedona and Welcome to the fire! We're just a bunch of friendly folks and ALWAYS try to make everyone feel welcome. Sit a spell and I'm sure we'll overload you with plain old 'stuff'. Now as to the Winchester '94 for CAS: mine is 45 Colt, 24" barrel and is a 'dead on shooter'; issues are as the other Pards have mentioned. I'll keep it and keep shooting it but I also have a Rossi '92 (38/357)that shoots GREAT! Last two matches I've had ZERO misses with it (wish I could say the same for pistols). Just for 'fun' why not visit a good Pard named Nate Kiowa Jones. His website is www.stevesgunz.com
He's known as the 'Rossie 92 Specialist'; says it all.
Now, I'm still thinking about a Marlin but so far the Rossi keeps me in the match. Maybe I'll find a DEAL for a Marlin at the gun show this weekend, not likely though.
Enough from me, just shoot as many different kinds, models, calibers as you can and then decide. We're always willing to let folks try our toys. GO to a shoot!!!
Be SAFE.
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I think the 94 Win in 45LC has the best reputation. It only has to accomodate one length of cartridge and the big 45 is closer to a 30-30 than any of the others.
There are good ones, but they just don't make sense to buy unless you have found a great deal. If you are starting from scratch, there are better choices, especially in 357/38.
Adios,
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I reckin if a guy wants to do some huntin' with his CAS rifle, the 45LC might have some merit over the .357.
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If I were going to get a CAS and hunting rifle, I'd get the 44 mag. It's got plenty of factory hunting rounds. In fact, that's what I did.. ;) ;D
Adios,
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If I were going to get a CAS and hunting rifle, I'd get the 44 mag. It's got plenty of factory hunting rounds. In fact, that's what I did.. ;) ;D
You had achance to run any .44 specials thru it yet? If so, what do ya think?
Adios,
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It would, but (and be honest with yourself) if you are competitive by nature you'll end up with 357's anyway (and shoot 38's). Might as well save some money, maybe just get 2 rifles.
Doc
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Absolutley. Buy the tool that fits the job. I was thinking of the guy on a tight budget who was trying to get double duty from his rifle. If you can only afford one for both, a .45 or .44 mag, that is if your hunting larger game like whitetail deer or such. If your after javalina, coyote on down, a .357 would serve nicely.
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Even if you're not competitive... it might not be worth it.. Everybody has to figure out their own deal.
I bought 44 Mags at first, cause I had a couple S&W 29s and cause I thought I might use them to hunt. But as I have gotten more dedicated to CAS, I have guns that only see CAS use. And my deer rifles are my good ol' bolt actions..
It worked out well for me.. in fact, I'm about to sell off all my 44 mag stuff, if your interested.
Adios,
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Hext..I consider myself to be an above average marksman, no pistolaro mind you, but a fairly good shot.....but I could never hit nothing with a .44mag. Can't be the pistol, they have proven track record, has to be me. A favorite story of mine is about a good friend who bought a ruger 44. One day he was headed out into the desert and saw a rattlesnake in the road. He pulled over, got out his .44 mag, shot 6 times, and then killed it with a shovel. That's me with a .44! Thanks but no thanks....Slim
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Well, tell you what Pards, soon as my Win '94 comes back from Nate Kiowa I'll give ya'll an updated performance report. I suspect it'll be super. Almost bought an original Winchester today (32-20) but $1400 was just TOO much; then of course there was the SRC in 44-40 for $1995, oh well, I can get lots and lots and lots of ammo for that kind of money. Cheers, smiles, and be SAFE
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Paper Chaser.....would like to hear from you after you give your 94 a good work-out. I'm assuming you sent it out to have speed job done and not for repairs. Am I right?
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Sedona, yes indeed. I sent it off to Nate Kiowa for one of his super action jobs. My Win '94 is a Legacy model with a rebounding hammer, so one has to be careful when 'fooling' around with it. The lever action is 'longer' also. I have lots of confidence in Nate and his talent. I'll let ya'll know after I've had a chance to put it through its new paces. I'll shoot my normal 45 Colt load: 255 gr bullet; 6.0 gr W231; large pistol primer.
Keep clanging the steel and be SAFE.
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Ah'm shore glad ta see CasCity has a marshal what's got sum sense; couldn't agree more th' Winchester model '94 Trail's End is a sweet shootin lady. Shoots grate rite outta th' box, least thet's mah experance. go fer it!
"Never apologize Mr.; it's a sign of weakness."