Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Cutting Edge => Topic started by: DarbyFett on July 27, 2009, 04:24:14 AM
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I am wanting a period correct Bowie for my mid 1870s persona. Shorter blade(6") and a stag handle. I would prefer a Non Pakistani or Chinese carbon steel. Funds are low. Any help?
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With caveats like 'funds are low' and such - you're not going to find a whole helluva lot that isn't made overseas...
However - not all of the overseas-made stuff is of low quality, and you may want to reconsider, if you're serious about finding a good knife at a fairly reasonable cost.
Take a look at 'Atlanta Cutlery Company' and their offerings at www.atlantacutlery.com
There may be something there that you can use, and since they seem to be the supplier to several sutlers and dealers - their prices aren't marked up quite as high as you can find elsewhere.
Alternatively - give some thought to one of the most commonly-used knives on the American Frontier - the simple butcher knife or skinning knife.
Thousands upon thousands were sold and traded and they were a staple to be found pretty much everywhere.
You'll find them today in thrift stores and flea markets, so look for one in good shape, with a blade style that'll actually be 'useful', since the bigger Bowies were somewhat limited in their actual 'usability' and the Toothpicks were a sort of one-trick pony.
All 'you' need to do, is to build (or have made) an appropriate beaded scabbard, and you're set.
You can wrap some rawhide on the handle - you can add brass pins - or you can leave it unadorned - but if you really want something low-cost, carbon steel and 'Made in America' - then this may prove to be the best option.
You'll see illustrations of them in Remington's and Russell's artwork - and you'll see them being worn by both cowboys as well as soldiers.
Good Luck!
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Howdy DarbyFett,
You should check out Crazy Crow too.
http://www.crazycrow.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=841-000-000
This is the link to their knife listings. I think that their knives are mostly imports, but they are well made.
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Howdy DarbyFett,
You should check out Crazy Crow too.
http://www.crazycrow.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=841-000-000
This is the link to their knife listings. I think that their knives are mostly imports, but they are well made.
+1
And don't forget the gun shows, pawn shops, etc. Every now and then you'll run across a very reasonably priced knife that just exactly fills the bill. For example, here's an obviously hand-made knife I found on the bargain table at a gun show. The scabbard was falling apart, so I made one. As I recall, I paid $30 for it.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/danielnighteyes/CAS%20Guns%20etc/HPIM0636.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/danielnighteyes/CAS%20Guns%20etc/HPIM0637.jpg)
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With caveats like 'funds are low' and such - you're not going to find a whole helluva lot that isn't made overseas...
However - not all of the overseas-made stuff is of low quality, and you may want to reconsider, if you're serious about finding a good knife at a fairly reasonable cost.
Take a look at 'Atlanta Cutlery Company' and their offerings at www.atlantacutlery.com
There may be something there that you can use, and since they seem to be the supplier to several sutlers and dealers - their prices aren't marked up quite as high as you can find elsewhere.
Alternatively - give some thought to one of the most commonly-used knives on the American Frontier - the simple butcher knife or skinning knife.
Thousands upon thousands were sold and traded and they were a staple to be found pretty much everywhere.
You'll find them today in thrift stores and flea markets, so look for one in good shape, with a blade style that'll actually be 'useful', since the bigger Bowies were somewhat limited in their actual 'usability' and the Toothpicks were a sort of one-trick pony.
All 'you' need to do, is to build (or have made) an appropriate beaded scabbard, and you're set.
You can wrap some rawhide on the handle - you can add brass pins - or you can leave it unadorned - but if you really want something low-cost, carbon steel and 'Made in America' - then this may prove to be the best option.
You'll see illustrations of them in Remington's and Russell's artwork - and you'll see them being worn by both cowboys as well as soldiers.
Good Luck!
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
Well funds aren't TOO low. When I wrote that, I had Wild Rose in mind. Though the fervor has died down, I am kind of a knife knut and have my share of custom blades. My main concern is a lot of the bowies i've been looking at have too wicked of a clip point. But I really havrn't seen any period bowies(just pictures with the handle sticking out of the belt...taunting me), so I am unsure what blade shape would be most PC.
I like this Sheffield a lot, but once again the clip point seems a little extreme. But the handle is exactly what I am looking for. I would need to whip up a new sheath though
http://www.sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/info_5.html
The persona I am working on at the moment isn't so much a hunter, but a young hooligan. And while his pistol would be his first choice, he might want a fightin' knife as back up.
Howdy DarbyFett,
You should check out Crazy Crow too.
http://www.crazycrow.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=841-000-000
This is the link to their knife listings. I think that their knives are mostly imports, but they are well made.
I was looking at their selection last night, and I really like one of the bare blades. Might give it a try.
+1
And don't forget the gun shows, pawn shops, etc. Every now and then you'll run across a very reasonably priced knife that just exactly fills the bill. For example, here's an obviously hand-made knife I found on the bargain table at a gun show. The scabbard was falling apart, so I made one. As I recall, I paid $30 for it.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/danielnighteyes/CAS%20Guns%20etc/HPIM0636.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/danielnighteyes/CAS%20Guns%20etc/HPIM0637.jpg)
I always seem to forget the gun shows, when I finally see a billboard advertising one, its too late. I will check out some pawn shops when I have the chance though.
I like that sheath!
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Chuck Burrows' work is superb - you can see my own in the thread titled - 'Now, That's a Knife!' and several other folks chimed in after that one was posted.
The thing about choosing a knife is how very 'personal' one is - so handle cmfort and blade shape are paramount.
When mine was built, it was basically a Frontier-era Randall Model 1 Fighting Knife, since that was what I've carried and used for over three decades.
Don't discount the lowly butcher/skinning knife, though - they were ubiquitous - mostly because they were handy.
If you're basing your Impression in the '70's - a Colt or Remington Conversion would've been common - as well as one of the older Bowies - but the era of the large Bowie/Toothpick as a fighting weapon died out quickly after the Civil War.
Gun shows, antique malls, flea markets, garage sales, swap meets - all these venues can and do often have sheath knives.
Good Hunting!
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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That is a beautiful knife. Chucks work is breathtaking, and as is usually the problem with breathtaking work, way out of my price range.
I know what you mean about about the knife being a 'personal', Like most knife fiends, I have yet to find THE knife. but I have come close with a Puukko I had made in Finland. My most expensive custom to date.
I do indeed carry a 1851 RM conversion.
Any thoughts on that Sheffield I posted?
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The Sheffield knife is very period appropriate. I would consider it an excellent choice.
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Shiny blades like this sheffield are really attractive, but I would suggest looking at toms ome the damscus blades. If one found a good shape with a basic leather holster, I think that the holster would last until it could either be modified or an entirely new sheath made ..... what I am thinkin of is like the Damascus Hunting Knife for less than $70.00 on this webpage ....
http://thunderknives.com/index.html
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as is usually the problem with breathtaking work, way out of my price range.
Not necessarily - Howdy Darby I got your email and will send you an answer tomorrow - if you don;t get it give me a call tomorrow evening..........
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Obviously I went ahead and emailed Chuck, I cant wait for that reply tomorrow ;D
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Here's one example of an 1870's style I did that I did with matching sheath that is similar to that Sheffield you linked to....
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/bowies/fulton-002.jpg)
This is the original I based the knife on...
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/bowies/gunfighter-bowie-ballend.jpg)
BTW - send me you phone number just in case we don't connnect..........
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What a nicely shaped knife .... the blade length to width ratio looks just right, and the blade looks like a working blade and not just a prop for a 40s B Grade shoot-em-up flick ...
And the sheath is a work of art in itself!
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Also, don't forget eBay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Sheffield-Bowie-BOWIE-KNIFE-DAGGER_W0QQitemZ370234098992QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5633ac0530&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Sheffield-Bowie-BOWIE-KNIFE-DAGGER_W0QQitemZ370234098992QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5633ac0530&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
[It went for less than $50]
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As far as mass produced and lower costs the beaver tail dag with beaded sheath i got from Atlanta Cutlery is very nice and at 34.00 was worth ever penny,sharpest damn thing i ever saw and i mean double razor sharp!
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/dag001.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/dag005.jpg)
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Good lookin' knife & sheatlh in a good looking display ... Nice!
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That thing off to the side i a big ole gord,dried and seeds rattle inside when ya shake it, For herdin animals.I raised bullfrogs once and herded them up with it and sold them to delmonicos resteruant.You all wanna buy in???? :D :D
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Sorry Rick,
Frogs alll over the wold witl be relieved that I consider frog's legs, albeit a delicacy, are relegated to a survibal food along with banana slugs, snake, wood grubs and some forms of sushi .... LOL
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I know one thing Chuck Burrows is in a place of his own...
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(http://sdough.smugmug.com/photos/258858908_2nDTw-M.jpg)
(http://sdough.smugmug.com/photos/237639186_6hpwt-M.jpg)
You can find stuff like the top pix "Old Tyme Bowie" (it is marked that on the blade) pretty cheap at yard sales, antique stores and gun shows.
My favorites are the 3 knives, all made by J. Jacobs. The one that looks rougher I got directly from him in about 1985. His work has improved. They really keep great edge. the oldest one I paid all of $40, the biggest one set me back about $150
curley
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That large one is marked 'Original Bowie' - they were made in Germany, at Solingen - and are good quality blades.
All they need are better scabbards, and they have good 'early' look, coupled with good steel and actual Stag.
They became popular in the 1960's, and were imported by the big mail-order sellers of the era.
Vaya,
Scouts Out
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DarbyFett – I’m 100% with St Geo on this (reference his first post in this thread): a 5 pin handle butcher knife would be an economical and undoubtedly historically accurate way to go for you in my opinion. Atlanta Cutlery offers affordable repro knives, though use care when selecting from their inventory. A solid choice would be what Atlanta calls the ‘1880 Bowie’. This one is a style I’ve seen in several Civil War era ferrotypes and is definitely period correct. However, though the price may suit your needs the blade length is a bit too long for your stated requirement.
In closing, of the two types of knives – original butcher or Atlanta Cutlery repro – I’d say you might just be better off with an original butcher which was a very common knife of the era, can be found at reasonable prices, and that old steel holds a helluva sharp edge.
Brass
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-4/1252580/butcherexamples.jpg)
top is Atlanta Cutlery '1880 knife', bottom two are examples of period butcher knives (no maker info stamped on blades)
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Howdy Darbyfett!
For a good look at the blades of bowie knives, check out "The Bowie Knife; Unsheathing an American Legend" by Norm Flayderman. Loks of great color pictures. R.L. Wilson's "The Peacemakers; Arms and Adventures in the American West" also has lots of pictures of period blades.
As for knives getting smaller after the Civil War, yes, but I think you'd still see quite a few larger blades (>6 inches) in the 1870s; Flayderman has a number of large blades pictures from the 1870s-80s. And if your character is a bit of a wild one, I could easily see such a character toting an 8 -10 inch blade as part of his bravado.
That sheffield you posted is a good looking period correct piece; and would work well as part of an 1880's working cowboy outfit (if one decided not to go the butcher knife route).
(And I have something real similar actually by R. Cooper, Sheffield England!) Plan on buying a new period correct custom made sheath for whatever knife you get.