Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gun Reviews => Topic started by: Dispatch on July 20, 2009, 07:26:03 PM
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At SASS events lead round nose (Cowboy) loads are used but, were FMJ bullets also used in the old west? ???
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At SASS events lead round nose (Cowboy) loads are used but, were FMJ bullets also used in the old west? ???
After they were invented and it the firearms that used them. ;)
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The Army, of course, fielded the Krag into the Western Garrisons in 1894, that was the first Full Metal jacket round in the American west. FMJ handgun ammo would be very rare until well after the turn of the century.
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There were a few with smokeless powders. You might be surprised to know that many BP rounds were loaded up to WWI. After the war effort was over not many BP loads survived. Many 'obsolete' rounds have now been revived. It's possible to walk into some shops and buy stuff like .41 Colt, .38-40, .45-70 and .45 S&W loaded just like your Great Grandfather might have bought.
And BTW, FMJ bullets don't shoot as well with BP loads.
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Only until 1883, I can not find any information prior, if FMJ ammuntion was being produced at all. Was Major Ruben of the Swiss laboratory at Thun, the first and only person to discover copper jacketed bullets? :-\
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There was no need/advantage with Black Powder. FMJ came when smokeless powder allowed increased velocity and less fouling.
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The Military was the first to see a need for a smokeless powder. To the best of my knowledge France was the first country to use smokeless in their issue guns
A bit of history;
The German Army learned that France had developed a smokeless powder. The rumor also claimed that the powder eliminated muzzle flash and sound. The Germans had spies steal ammo and then were relieved to learn that although the ammo only produced a small about of smoke it did produce both a flash and sound.
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So can you shoot FMJ in single action revolvers? What types/weights?
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Any.45 caliber bullet within a reasonable weight can be shot in a Clone of a gun used in the Old West. I've used many bullets made for .45 ACP and several actually made for the .45 Colt. I haven't found any that performed better as far as accuracy nor any that greatly impressed me with better performance. Lead bullets are cheaper and, at least in my experience, do just as good a job.
I guess the answer is, if you have some FMJ bullets and want to use'm go right ahead. If you think they will take your gun to a whole new level then it ain't gonna happen.
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So can you shoot FMJ in single action revolvers? What types/weights?
Sure, if you want to double your shooting costs ;)
LG
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BP needs lube. FMJs don't have any lube.
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Sure, if you want to double your shooting costs ;)
LG
Why are you saying it doubles the cost? 130gr FMJ cost around 16-18 per box.
I guess it's reasonable. I buy ammo online so I guess it's cheaper. Btw, I found a guy who reloads 158, 125, etc RNFP for 3&spl and 357 cowboy loads. 16.25 per 50rds. 10.00 to ship to CT from OH. Best deal I found.
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Why are you saying it doubles the cost? 130gr FMJ cost around 16-18 per box.
I guess it's reasonable. I buy ammo online so I guess it's cheaper. Btw, I found a guy who reloads 158, 125, etc RNFP for 3&spl and 357 cowboy loads. 16.25 per 50rds. 10.00 to ship to CT from OH. Best deal I found.
If it's a FMJ it ain't a cowboy load. You can't shoot jacketed ammo in a cowboy match.
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Why are you saying it doubles the cost? 130gr FMJ cost around 16-18 per box.
I guess it's reasonable. I buy ammo online so I guess it's cheaper. Btw, I found a guy who reloads 158, 125, etc RNFP for 3&spl and 357 cowboy loads. 16.25 per 50rds. 10.00 to ship to CT from OH. Best deal I found.
Bx of 50? Dang that's high, IMHO.
I load .38's with 158 lead for SASS, at just under 6 cents @ rnd.
I buy primers, powder and bullets in bulk.
LG
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If it's a FMJ it ain't a cowboy load. You can't shoot jacketed ammo in a cowboy match.
Hi there
I didn't say for cowboy matches. Just general plinking. I wish I reload, but I just got a brand new six shooter and out of money. One day sure, I will try to do that. But have no idea where to even start, what to get. I need to do a lot of reading. Sure Im interested in buying from someone who reloads. Anybody interested? Thanks gents
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Got to have a fed lic to sell ammo.
Then there is state resale lic etc.
LG
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Buy a Lyman Reloading Handbook - they can be found used, and at your Public Library - and read it.
Then start looking at Craigslist and the weekly paper for reloading equipment.
Used reloaders go far more cheaply than you'd think.
This is about the only way you're going to find plinking ammunition.
Scouts Out!
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Check pawn shops and flea markets for used reloading equipment. When you do get your press ask around your area and you'll likely find someone to teach you the basics.
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Appreciate all responses gentleman.
I will look around for some equipment. That sounds like a good idea. In the meantime, I'll just use those 16.00/50 deal.
;D
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Only until 1883, I can not find any information prior, if FMJ ammuntion was being produced at all. Was Major Ruben of the Swiss laboratory at Thun, the first and only person to discover copper jacketed bullets? :-\
copper jacketed bullets were not discovered, they were invented as a rational need, mainly by the french, when they discovered the leading caused by lead bullets at the speeds of smokeless powders in their Lebel rifles.
in the old west, when it comes to handguns, no copper bullets where used before 1890 as most revolvers were still black powder.
unfortunately, most italian clones of the 1873 peacemaker, have riflings more thought for modern jacketed or hard cast bullets and smokeless than for BP. .
original XIX century revolvers, until the 1920´s, have deeper riflings, that leaded less and stabilized better, and cleaned better.
and unfortunately most molds sold now, dont have deep enough grooves to avoid leading without adding tin to the mix, in most revolvers, when loaded with black powder. They are designed for smokeless powders. Lee´s molds, for instance.
all the best
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Use the correct bullet lube for BP(NOT smokeless lube!), cast at 30:1 alloy(lead/Tin)or there abouts and size correctly, you'll be good to go.
LG
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I second LG's posts.
Buy your BP by the case (25 lbs).
Buy bullets at least by the 1k's or more.
Buy primers by the 5k sleeves/cases.
My 44 Russian ammo and 38spl ammo stay pretty cheap that way.
BTW I shoot 38spl alot and have not bought a new 38spl case since 2005 - due to paying 80.00 to help out the BSA after they picked up and sorted a bunch of brass at a 3 day match. That 80.00 bought me 2-1/2 laundry soap bucket loads of cases. Even though that was 7+ years ago only now am I seeing about 5-8 pieces of brass get tossed per 100 after i clean them and find some have failed.
PR
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Great responses. While I search for my reloading equipment, I will continue to buy ready made stuff. Found a company who does reloading in both new and once fired brass, and sells them for like $22.50 per 100 rounds. I'm not in CAS so I really don't shoot that much. Thanks for replies.