Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Spencer Shooting Society => Topic started by: ndnchf on April 09, 2009, 07:14:47 AM
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I've been reading about bullet choices and would like to try some Rapine 350Ts. Do any of the comercial bullet makers sell these? Or is there anyone here who would be willing to sell 25-50 of them? I need them sized .513" or larger. Preferably larger, unsized.
Can someone supply the bullet dimensions ? OA length, base to crimp groove, crimp groove to nose. Unsized diameter with various alloys?
Thanks
ndnchf
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OAL .753 ,base to crimp groove.410 ,crimp groove to nose .343 ,cast WW.516, if you are reesizing i sugest you get the mould in .520 the groove is plenty deep enough to hold enough lube after resizing and you have a more versitile mould it should have plenty of lube to work in 50-95 as it works very well in50 BP express
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Thanks you Herbert, I appreciate the information. This bullet with its large lube carrying capacity sounds very promising for my long barreled rifle. ;D
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I've been using the 375, the grooves are a little thin but it hasn't been a problem in my rifle. They cast out at 365 Grain in lead. I've been thinking about a little moly spray to make me feel better.
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Hello All,
I am located in Germany and my Spencer Rifle will receive by end of June. I found some reports related to the Rapine 350T and the Grease Groves looks fine. Can some one help me to order an Rapine 350T mould. I looked at Buffalo Arms but they do not offer such size. I need it for 56-50 Spencer Rifle.
Can some one send me a link were I can order the mould ?
Thanks for your support and kind regards from Germany.
El Tigre :)
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You have to call Rapine on the phone, they do not have a web site and the moulds are not carried by any retailers. The number is 215-679-5413. He is located in Pennsylvania. I ordered my 350T mould about 2 weeks ago, he told me it would be 4-5 weeks for delivery. But surprise, it showed up at my door yesterday ;D
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The first mould I used for the 56050 Taylor's was the Rapine. It is an excellent mold, and holds plenty of lube, which is good for the long barreled rifle. The only drawback, if I remember right (it's been a long time) is that it seats deeper than the modified Lee and decreases case volume for powder. If using 777, or using a compression die for BP, this is less of an issue. It was VERY accurate, though.
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Thanks all of you for your feedback. :D
Lot of comments are linked to a modified Lee. Does it mean that the Lee mould is reworked. Which Lee mold it is ?
El Tigre
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It is a cut down 50-70 mold, designed by Hell R High Water and perfected by Dakota Widow Maker (Gosh, I hope I got the order right!). #50 grain nominal weight. They are both on this forum.
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TL,
Yes, you got that correct. I modified my mould in May 2004 and have been shooting bullets from it ever since. Since I am a shooter and not a mould maker, when Dakota Widowmaker asked me about modifing moulds and selling them I told him to go for it. I have retired three different times and plan on staying that way. Not enough time for me to both work and shoot.
El Tigre,
The mould starts out as a Lee 515-500-F and the bottom two bands and grooves are machined off. New overall bullet length is 0.725" +/- and mine casts at 335 gr +/- using a 20:1 alloy. I don't know what DW calls his but I call mine a 50-340-F. You can check out the Lee web site to see what the original looks like, print a copy and cover up the bottom portion to see what the modified bullet will look like.
I believe that DW is still modifing and selling moulds so if you are interested you should contact him. Contact info for him on this web site.
Good shooting.
HHW
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With the DW modified mould you can get an honest 45 gr. FFg (per originals) if you slowly drop tube and compress slightly. It clocks right at 1200 fps or a tad under. ;)
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In Europe we have the Schweizer Black Powder in our neighbourhood. They are offering Schweizer #0 up to #5. In my Sharps 45-120 I am using the Schweizer 5. So if the brass can only take less powder due to the Rapine 350 T or the modified Lee it doesn’t matter. I will change the powder and believe me the Schweitzer 1 or 0 have a lot of power.
Hanks al, for your comments
El Tigre ;)
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So I just called Rapine and ordered a 350 T in .512.
Thanks all of you for the greate feedback.
I will keep you informed about my first shoots with the Spencer.
El Tigre 8)
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In Europe we have the Schweizer Black Powder in our neighbourhood...
We have it here as well. I shoot it in my Shiloh Sharps and have shot some in my Spencer.
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In June I will start to load my 54-110 Sharps. It will be funny to shoot it ;D
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In June I will start to load my 54-110 Sharps. It will be funny to shoot it ;D
No it won't. Ein "Gift" ist nich immer ein Gift. ;) ;D
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Das verstehe ich nicht.
I do not understand.
Meinst du mit Gift das ift oder das Geschenk ?
Is your understanding of the word "Gift" the toxic Gift or the english word for a present ? ::)
El Tigre ;D
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I attached some picture of my 54-110 Sharps which I will receive approx. in August 2009. Tha Tang sight is not ready by 100 % and the finish is not ready.
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Das verstehe ich nicht.
I do not understand.
Meinst du mit Gift das ift oder das Geschenk ?
Is your understanding of the word "Gift" the toxic Gift or the english word for a present ? ::)
El Tigre ;D
Wie geht's!
Ich denke Geschenk ist was er war sagen!
Entschuldigung, mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut! I habe nicht fur sehr viel Jahr Deutsch sprechen.
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El Tigre!
Wenn sie das 54-110 Sharps schiessen, es ist gleich das Bereich Haubitze auf Erwin Romel
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What I meant is that the 50-140 will not be fun to shoot. Most people shoot it twice and say no more. Besides, Sharps never chambered any rifles for 3 1/4" cartridges. That was done by other companies AFTER Sharps closed their doors in late 1881. The 50 2 1/2" was the biggest .50 cal. they chambered in a Sharps.
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I had a 45-120-3 1/4" sharps briefly. 120 grains of FG cannon powder and a 650 grain Postell bullet. Mein Gott!, das war ja umglaublich wenn sie das Haubitze schiessen! ( It was unbelievable when you fired that howitzer!) After 4 or 5 shots, my back (3 bad disks retired me from LE) hurt too bad. Compared to that, shooting the Spencer is like a .22 rim-fire.
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What I meant is that the 50-140 will not be fun to shoot. Most people shoot it twice and say no more. Besides, Sharps never chambered any rifles for 3 1/4" cartridges. That was done by other companies AFTER Sharps closed their doors in late 1881. The 50 2 1/2" was the biggest .50 cal. they chambered in a Sharps.
I mean not the 50-140, I mean the 54-110.
Beside the 45-70 for sure there are some more caliber existing. That is known by all of you so my comment related to 45-70 was a joke. But one is true, the 45-70 is the most popular caliber for such kind of rifles.
The point is that it becomes boring to talk about such calibers because all is discussed a lot of times. Reloading data are well known, individual experiences are communicated deeply, coming to the point: There are no news existing.
That was the motivation of a friend of me to think about what to change.
As you know in Europe the weapon law is very restricted. If you want to buy a Sharps you have to fulfill a lot of things and to request a license. To get it you must be in a shooter club, in minimum 18 years old……..Only if you want to buy a black powder Sharps were you can not use central fire ammunition you can by w/o such license.
But if you dream about to use a central fire Sharps and to prepare your own ammunition at home, you can dream during the rest of your life.
So my friend developed a system to fire a percussion Sharps but using a brass, reloaded at home.
And the best is, that you do not need a.m. license.
As a second step he developed an exchangeable block so that you can use both systems, the percussion and the central fire.
As a third step he developed the 54-110 ammunition and produced the appropriated Sharps.
A outstanding result, a rifle with high accuracy.
As a fourth step he developed the right tang sight with the right functions and fulfilling the shooters needs by 100 %. Removable w/o any loss of accuracy after re-installation e.g. after cleaning the rifle.
This is 54-110 with the right tang sight brings back more fun in our shooters live !
I add some pictures but you can visit his home page by
www.sharps-doctor.eu
Regards out of the old Germany
El Tigre :D
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I had a 45-120-3 1/4" sharps briefly. 120 grains of FG cannon powder and a 650 grain Postell bullet. Mein Gott!, das war ja umglaublich wenn sie das Haubitze schiessen! ( It was unbelievable when you fired that howitzer!) After 4 or 5 shots, my back (3 bad disks retired me from LE) hurt too bad. Compared to that, shooting the Spencer is like a .22 rim-fire.
That is true. I put in my 45-120 125 gn Schweizer 5. With Greas Grove bullets I have some problems with accuracy so I changed to paper patched bullets. It seams that they are working well.
The recoil is strong but after 20 shoots the Bier taste than very well.
Dein deutsch klingt doch gut. Wo hast du deutsch gelernt. Meine Tante in Oklahoma City hat versucht es ihren Kindern beizubringen. Sie können deutsch verstehen, aber nicht sprechen.
I think to load the Spencer with Schweizer 1 or 0. That will change the feeling of a .22 Rime Fire ;D
El Tigre
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Ich habe gelehrnen im Hoch-Schule im Jahren 1966-1970, und wir sprechen nur auf Deutsch im Klasse und aus Klasse. Auch mein Grossvater war aus Oesterreich und meine Gross Mutter war aus Lorrengen (Alsace-Loarraine). Ich speche sehr venig und sehr einfach. Danke Gott fur das Woerterbuk!
Even though I learned it in high school many years ago, I have tried to use it when I can. many times when I was a Police Officer or Investigator, it helped me with tourists from Germany and Austria. One time I was investigating a possible murder, and the witnesses were aus Munchen, und sprechen kein Englisch. I was in civilian clothes and could not think of the word for Investigator so I said "Bitte, Ich bin gleich Sherlock Holmes, verstehen sie?" They laughed. With my terrible German and the small amount of English they spoke, I was able to interview them. The last time I used it very much was mitt ein Tour-Gruppe im Oesterreich im 2007.
I have been to Europe three times in the last 6 or 7 years, and was amazed how restrictive most of the EU guns laws are. It must be difficult for Cowboy Action Shooters over there. What did you have to do to obtain the Spencer? For your 54-110 Sharps, are you using 577 Snider-Enfield brass?
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Ich habe gelehrnen im Hoch-Schule im Jahren 1966-1970, und wir sprechen nur auf Deutsch im Klasse und aus Klasse. Auch mein Grossvater war aus Oesterreich und meine Gross Mutter war aus Lorrengen (Alsace-Loarraine). Ich speche sehr venig und sehr einfach. Danke Gott fur das Woerterbuk!
Even though I learned it in high school many years ago, I have tried to use it when I can. many times when I was a Police Officer or Investigator, it helped me with tourists from Germany and Austria. One time I was investigating a possible murder, and the witnesses were aus Munchen, und sprechen kein Englisch. I was in civilian clothes and could not think of the word for Investigator so I said "Bitte, Ich bin gleich Sherlock Holmes, verstehen sie?" They laughed. With my terrible German and the small amount of English they spoke, I was able to interview them. The last time I used it very much was mitt ein Tour-Gruppe im Oesterreich im 2007.
I have been to Europe three times in the last 6 or 7 years, and was amazed how restrictive most of the EU guns laws are. It must be difficult for Cowboy Action Shooters over there. What did you have to do to obtain the Spencer? For your 54-110 Sharps, are you using 577 Snider-Enfield brass?
That is very interesting. A nice story I want to tell you. My onkel, an American man visited us 1994. He was well educated in German language, so his opinion because he was a long time in Germany. After arrival at Frankfurt he went to the car rental and asked for a car. They do not understand him. I was at his side and after 10 minutes of discussion he changed his face color because he thought to know German. That was right, but what he learned was a German with dialect and the girls at Frankfurt do not know this dialect . Most difficult is in Bavaria, a very special place in Germany.
To buy a gun you have to have a licence. To get one there are two ways you can go. Be a member in a shooter club. After one year of membership you can ask for a license if you are shooting frequently, documented in a shooter book.
The guns are limited. Second way is to get a hunting license. But this is total different to your license. You have to learn approx one year. All about the trees, flowers, animals…..That is a nightmare.
In 2003 the government want to change the law. If you are not participating on shooting contests you have to give back your rifles. So I decided to start with the hunting license. I had an 8 week session with private teacher, every day nothing else as learning for hunting. The names of all Enten, Vögel, deers, what the want, what the do not want….
After 8 weeks I made my job right and got the license. With this license I can buy all rifles, all calibres and two hand guns.
In 1986 I was the first time in US, 6 weeks vacation. I went to Oklahoma City to the second part of my family. The brother of my onkel retired and started to deal with rifles.
So we took the pick up, some rifles and go shooting. That was the time a like to spend the time with shooting. As a small boy I saw Bonanza, every day. So I had the virus of Western in me. I am focused on Western Rifles like Winchester, Marlin, Sharps, Gallager, Spencer…and I like to reload with Black Powder.
The 54-110 I will have late this year. My friend just ordered the barrels and systems.
The tang sight is ready. Today I am busy to bring my 45-120 running. 100 yards with 2 Zoll or 50 mm accuracy is fine but I am fare away from this.
Dein deutsch ist fast perfekt
El Tigre :-\
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Vielen Dank, mein Herr, du bist zu nett!
If I understand the concept on the 54-110 Sharps, it is a self contained case, except for primer. It uses the primer hole as a flash hole, and the musket percussion cap flashes into the base of the cartridge. This is similar to the system my Smith 50 caliber Civil War carbine uses. They use a rubber cartridge and a musket cap. Very ingenious way around the laws!
As for hunting with the Spencer, it should be good for deer or boar!
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Vielen Dank, mein Herr, du bist zu nett!
If I understand the concept on the 54-110 Sharps, it is a self contained case, except for primer. It uses the primer hole as a flash hole, and the musket percussion cap flashes into the base of the cartridge. This is similar to the system my Smith 50 caliber Civil War carbine uses. They use a rubber cartridge and a musket cap. Very ingenious way around the laws!
As for hunting with the Spencer, it should be good for deer or boar!
The system o f the 54-110 is not such easy. You will use a normal brass and the gas Leakproofness is given by the brass and a special insert of the lock. My friend has the patent. This system is 95 % gas leakproofen compared to the normal percussion system. But the most interesting thing is that you can use it as a normal central fire system by changing the lock .
If you want to use it as a percussion system you take a already used primer and drill a 1,2 mm hole in it.
The spencer I think I can not se for hunting. For small deers you have to have 2000 Joule as a minimum
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The first mould I used for the 56050 Taylor's was the Rapine. It is an excellent mold, and holds plenty of lube, which is good for the long barreled rifle. The only drawback, if I remember right (it's been a long time) is that it seats deeper than the modified Lee and decreases case volume for powder. If using 777, or using a compression die for BP, this is less of an issue. It was VERY accurate, though.
Do you have still your Tayler ( Armi Sport) ?
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Sadly, no. A year and a half of unemployment and under employment took its toll. I am currently working to try to trade a WWII USGI M1 carbine for another one.
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The gun law is not that restrictive all over Europe. At least not here in Scandinavia. All we nead is a licence for every gun, whits takes a week or two, and be a member of a shooting club. Then you can own all the guns you want. Only the cartridge handguns are restricted to six a person. Well - your wife kan also own six, and your adult cildren !!! So hwat`s the problem ???
Greatings from Denmark - The missing Link
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The gun law is not that restrictive all over Europe. At least not here in Scandinavia. All we nead is a licence for every gun, whits takes a week or two, and be a member of a shooting club. Then you can own all the guns you want. Only the cartridge handguns are restricted to six a person. Well - your wife kan also own six, and your adult cildren !!! So hwat`s the problem ???
Greatings from Denmark - The missing Link
I know your law. You can be lucky not to have such creacy people in the governement 8)