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The Darksider's Den / Re: How did we get these "Calibers"?
« Last post by Griff on Today at 08:57:02 PM »
Regarding the misnomer 45 "Long" Colt.  There is evidence that the government developed a shorter cartridge differing from the Schoffield by having the same rim diameter as the 45 Colt.  Elmer Keith wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (]Sixguns, page 285).  but, it still doesn't change the name of the 45 Colt.

The case is 1.1" long. The powder charge was black powder, approximately 28 grains. The bullet weighed right at 230 gr. and was lubed with a white chalky-looking substance. I fired one from my Ruger 7 1/2" barreled .45 and it went through the chronograph at near 750 fps.  I understand production was ceased sometime in the 1930s.

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:) WHAT ?? ;)

"Relative Newcomer??"  Newcomer??  Well, ok, I've only been play the game since 1990 or there about.
Yep... still a relative newcomer... Except for the few members of the Wild Bunch still shooting, I don't know anyone that's been at this longer than myself.  And I only started in 1985. 
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Hey !! Great video  Rube !!!   8)
 Appreciate the mention  and I definitely enjoyed setting them up for you.

Mike
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Dang, Mako, are you trying to give me writer's (typer's) cramp?

I used to shoot mostly BP.  The last few years I shoot more smokeless than BP.  I shoot a lot of different guns.  I like the variety.  I'm prepping a post now on "braces" of pistols, and I have nine pairs that I shoot, at least occasionally.  About 3 or 4 more if I mix and match the pistols.  Basically, I have my smokeless main match '51 conversions with 4 3/4" barrels, though I do occasionally shoot BP in them.  All the other braces get BP only, or a mixture.  1st, 2nd, 3rd gen Colts in 32-20, 44-40, 44 Spcl, and 45 Colt.  Those get shot occasionally in monthly matches. Also assorted Cimarron Model P's, one Thunderer, and a couple of Type II's.  At the annual matches I only shoot BP, and that is in my engraved 5.5" '51 conversions.

No specific wet weather guns, but then they are all cartridge. I prefer not to shoot in the rain at all, and I have skipped some monthlies when the radar didn't look too good.  Just this past weekend, I shot both Saturday and Sunday (Texican Rangers shoot both days), and I went Sunday because the radar looked good, but that is because mist doesn't show up on radar!  We were misted on until the last stage.  My main concern was my guncart which uses a vintage piece of luggage, a "train case" that I didn't want to get wet (I ruined one of those that warped in a downpour once and it took some convincing for my mom to let me have another one from her collection).  Captain Baylor was there with his cap guns (ROA's), and he had them pushed into ziplock baggies, then into his holsters, until time to shoot.  He told me about some guy once at Winter Range (where it was "traditional" for at least one day to get a gully washer) who went into a porta-potty after each stage to recharge his cap guns.

Calibers are more .38's than anything now, partially because now that I have a 550 set up for .38 I can crank them out, but I also shoot 32-20, 44-40, 44 Spcl, 44 Russian, 45 Schofield, 45 Colt which I load on my Turret that is usually 90 miles away for the last few years.  Whatever guns I decide to shoot for any particular match, well whatever caliber that is.  I don't just say I want to shoot a particular caliber this week, I say I want to shoot certain guns.

I've pretty much got my dream guns.  I do have a bucket-list thing that I plan to do shortly.  My Thunderer is a 3.5" and I got it with a one-piece pearlite grip.  The only other Thunderer I've ever seen with that grip is one of Mike Harvey's show guns, the "Pimp's Dream" as he named it, which is a nickled engraved Thunderer that was the first one Uberti made.  His is .45 and mine is 44 Spcl with an extra 44-40 cylinder.  I want to make mine to be a "Tribute" to that first Thunderer.  I've showed the Pimp's Dream gun to master engraver Terry Theis, and he is familiar with that engraving style (it is somewhat different than the norm) and he says he could do it up good for me, even fancier than Mike's.  Then I think Mike would go for getting the two guns together to do an article on them.

I started using APP (Shooter's World Multi-Black, actually) in my .32 and .38 rifles just this past year, due primarily to the ease (use coated bullets) and minimal buildup in the bore so easy cleaning.  Laziness, basically.  BP only in pistols and shotguns, when I'm shooting smokey stuff.  I would miss the flame, the boomier boom, and the smell if I used a sub in everything.  I will use the coarsest grain (currently 1Fg) for the shotgun for more flame.  I have noticed that the majority of the CAS BP category shooters these days are using APP in everything.  A lot of them have never used real BP at all.  Kind of sad, really.  As I've always said, Subs are fun, BP is funner.  I guess I need to update that to: Smokeless is fun.  BP Subs are funner.  BP is funner still...but smokeless is still fun.  ;)

As for shooting more smokeless that BP, I guess laziness is a big reason.  I've never had a shortage of BP and no cap guns so no cap shortage for me.  Cleaning them is easy but messy and takes time, and I shoot every week.  Now that my mom has passed, I'm even busier than I used to be dealing with estate stuff and moving, but once I get permanently moved into this house, I do intend to shoot BP more at monthlies like I used to.

As for long guns, 5 '73's in 4 calibers (32-20, .357, 44-40, 45 Colt) and a '66 in 44 Spcl, plus an original '92 carbine in 32wcf.  Used to shoot lots of BP in the 44 Spcl but that rifle has some issues so don't shoot it much now and just smokeless.  I do not shoot BP at all in the 45 Colt '73, it is just too messy and no need at all, since I have others to shoot.  One of the .357 '73's does most of the BP now with .38's, but I would like to make the 32-20 (Uberti) my main BP match gun.  I have been fighting extraction issues with it for years now.  The fact that I don't want to ship it off and will only deal with a gunsmith that I can hand it to, has not helped any.  I'm hoping to hand it off to Lefty Wheeler at the state match in two weeks.

Shotguns, I have two TTNs, but just use them occasionally at monthlies - I use a Baikal hammerless for BP at annuals because it is faster (duh).  I cock the TTN hammers one at a time while reloading, and it would have been okay years ago but most folks are cocking faster than that now. I've been shooting '97's lately with smokeless because I found out I love to slam-fire, but just last weekend a friend was shooting BP in his '97 and it's giving me the itch to give that a try as well.
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1871-72 Colt Opentop Sixgun Spotlight.

https://youtu.be/_iyaODXMfg0?si=I-OJdl1fWb5NPTmR
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The Darksider's Den / Re: Which rifle for BP?
« Last post by Abilene on Today at 09:04:00 AM »
Deacon, I am going to weigh in on your rifle choice, as I had a similar choice once.  My 1st CAS rifle was a Winchester '94 Trapper in .45.  What a horrible gun for this game.  Maybe better than a Big Boy?  But at the time, it was the worst.  Due to the design and the 9 round limit.  So my next gun was a Navy Arms stainless '92 in .45.  Stainless because I wanted to start shooting BP and thought you needed stainless (right now, I own zero stainless guns).  It was a huge step up from the '94, even though the action wasn't real smooth even after some work.  I did shoot BP in that one for a year or so, but then I got my 1st toggle rifle, a 44 Spcl 1866.  That was a straight wall case also, really no better for BP than the .45, but the action made it so much nicer to shoot that I never shot the '92 anymore and sold it whenever I got a '73 in .45.  Yes, the '66 needed more cleaning after shooting BP than a dash caliber, but it always made it through the matches, just needing a spritz of moose-milk or plain water when the carrier would get sticky.  This would usually be right after I finished a stage, never in the middle of a stage.  That '66 never had a short stroke, but I did the "poor man's" action job on it and it is quite smooth.  My concerns back then were not the functioning of the rifle, but that the bullets would have enough lube since I was relubing smokeless bullets with their tiny lube groove. Sometimes I would need to give the bore a swab mid-match.  BP subs would eliminate that, though.

So, I'm going to say go with the '66 in your choice, simply because it is more pleasant to shoot than a '92 IMO.  The fact that it will get dirty and need cleaning is just part of the game.  Most of my BP main match shooting now is .38's in a '73, even though I do have a '92 in 32-20 which needs less cleaning.
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 :) WHAT ?? ;)

"Relative Newcomer??"  Newcomer??  Well, ok, I've only been play the game since 1990 or there about.  But the answer will take a couple of minutes -
1.) Sure.  Most of the time I'm showing a pair of .44 Navy Pattern SNUBBIE Pietta Cap Guns.  Sometimes I switch off ('cause I be lazy) to a Pair of 1860 Pietta conversions in .45, wid short barrels.  I switch to Suppositories for "Lazy" days.

2.) Nope.  Don't have "Wet Weather" guns.  I don't shoot in the rain any more.  Being wet is not in my lexicon of FUN.  I go home.

3.) I do switch up to .36/38 just for grins and giggles.

4.) No desire for any guns other than what I already have.  I switch between different 1860 Henry rifles.  They are ALL .45s but are of different barrel length.

5.) I don't consider shooting Black Powder (Black Powder is NOT Holy) to be a hassle. I just prefer APP.  Either Black or APP are actually easier to clean than that heathen, fad, smokeless stuff.

6.) Nope.  I don't shoot smokeless anymore.  I consider smokeless to be rather boring.  Black and APP are FUN.  Much more fun to shoot at targets you can't actually "see."

7.) My Shotguns are ALL Hammer Doubles.  Hammer guns are just much more "CowBoy" than internal hammer guns.  And more of a challenge.  I also shoot my shotguns with All Brass hulls.  Again, much funner than plastic.  I also anneal ALL of my .45 rifle rounds.  My .45s shoot as clean as any "dash" caliber and are easier to reload.  My 16 inch barrel Henry Trapper requires Cowboy 45 Special cases to load 10 and is a real hoot.  I also have an 18 1/2 inch Carbine and a 19 inch carbine, all of which are custom built.  Henry's are capitol FUN you betcha.

I also shoot Gunfighter.  My Cap Guns have to be every bit, if not more reliable than Suppository Shooters.  ALL my Cap Guns are dead reliable. 
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Mako, no, the question is inane.  I don't make it habit of listing my guns on a public forum.   Who cares what others shoot?    It's often a matter of what a person can afford, likes, has available to them or appeals to their sense of history, or any number of subjective reasons.  As a matter of fact, I do shoot percussion pistols, 36 caliber ones to be not quite specific.  Been shooting one of them since before there was a Frontiersman category in SASS, back when all we used was a single pistol..., well, before there was a Frontier Cartridge category, in fact.  So I've shot in the rain with percussion pistols many, many times.  I shoot a 45 Colt rifle, which specific one is a matter of whim on any given day... I shoot a side-by-side shotgun, 12 gauge, and again, which specific model is often a mystery, even to me, (although my current choices are down by one, it being in the shop for repairs), so it's either a hammerless with 20" or 26" bbls, or maybe the 26" or 28" hammered. 
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My answers in [brackets}
Do you have different choices for different matches? [I shoot my Uberti Millenium 1863 NMAs for "serious" matches and 10+ other pistols for the monthlies. I also shoot less than perfect home cast bullets at the monthlies]

Do you have wet weather guns? [yes. A pair of suppository shooters (pistols that load from the rear) called Uberti Hombres in .357 cal and a stainless Rossi '92]  Especially those who shoot loose powder pistolas. [I almost always shoot Frontiersman but have stooped to shooting suppositories due to the dearth of caps]

Do you shoot the same calibers all of the time, or switch them up for grins or just to not get stale? [ I shoot mostly 44s in the C&Bs but occasionally switch it up and shoot 36s]
 
If you had your choice, within reason, and money wasn't an issue what would you shoot?  I don't mean wishing for original 19th century versions of everything... [Maybe stainless 4 or 6 inch Uberti Remington NMAs and a Henry rifle]

If you shoot a substitute powder is it because of availability, local laws or you just like the way it works and eliminate the "hassle" of BP? [ I will shoot anything that smokes in the shotgun: BP, Pyrodex, APP, Black MZ, 777, etc. In the C&Bs only 3F BP. In the rifle (357mag) I have settled on 3f 777 after trying everything from Black Canyon (you old timers might remember that one as well as...), Black Mag3, Clear Shot, Clean Shot, APP, BLack MZ, Pyrodex, & BP. I would likely be shooting just BP in the Rossis if the Snakebite bullet would have fed reliably in my rifles. All of the subs shot more accurately with little fouling using the Lyman RNFB 158gr bullet which feeds very well. I cast, size and lube all my cartridge bullets with 50/50 deer tallow and beeswax.]
Do you ever shoot smokless at some matches? [NEVER!]
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Griff,
Your answers are inane. 

It's not "trivia"..  Do you shoot Rugers, Colts, USFAs, Ubertis, whatever?  What caliber?  I am assuming you shoot a Uberti made '73 in 44 WCF.  You've made no reference to what scattergun you shoot.

And, since you don't have wet weather guns I can pretty much guess that you don't shoot loose powder percussion revolvers.  Capped and holstered they are fine, before the loading table where they are capped I have tried plastic bag covers with mixed results.  The real problem is loading powder under an umbrella or poncho and keeping the cones dry.  A lot of clubs won't allow you to retreat to a truck or even a covered pavilion that is not actually on the range line.  I don't blame them, it is a range officer's nightmare to have people handling firearms off of the line and behind everyone.

If you don't want to tell us that is fine, you don't have to participate.  But, we have no idea what your categories and inventory is.  I don't think the gun snatchers are worried about your cowboy guns to the point they will hunt us down for our 19th century "assault weapons". 

 :D Mako
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