1887 shooting slugs ?????

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
The modern made 1887 shotgun  are made to shoot a 2 3/4 inch smokeless load . Can they  handle the pressure of slugs ??
If they would handle the pressure the 1887 would make an awesome slug gun . A lever action shotgun to pack in the Deer woods .

[Pettifogger]

Howdy
The modern made 1887 shotgun  are made to shoot a 2 3/4 inch smokeless load . Can they  handle the pressure of slugs ??
If they would handle the pressure the 1887 would make an awesome slug gun . A lever action shotgun to pack in the Deer woods .

Last time I checked modern slug loads are all smokeless.  Slugs don't generate any more pressure than shot of the same weight. One of the reasons the Chicoms put the lever latch and two piece levers on their reproductions was so they would stay closed with heavy smokeless loads.

If you really want to have fun and brutalize yourself, convert your 87 to .70-150.  Winchester designed 87 rifles and actually made some ammo.  The gun never went into production because the recoil was to severe.  There is at least one modern 87 that was converted.  It was given away as a prize to help fund the SASS Chapel.

[Pettifogger]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that.  I've always used rifled slugs with smooth bore barrels, and smooth slugs with rifled barrels because using smooth slugs in a smooth bore barrel could cause unsafe pressure in the barrel.

Perhaps I was taught wrong.  But it sure makes sense to me.  Think about it - why make rifled barrels and rifled slugs if there's no need for them?

Because they are far more accurate. 

SAMMI doesn't have separate pressure ratings for shot and slugs.  The pressures for both have to be within the maximum spec.

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[Pettifogger]

Rifled slugs are made so that even if someone shoots it through a barrel with a choke it will still be safe.  Solid slugs do not ride directly in the rifling.  They are in a Sabot.  Even these can be fired in a regular barrel, they just won't be as accurate as with a rifled bore.  Here's an article that talks about slugs.  And, Seth, you are 100% correct.  If there is a question about the proper ammunition for a particular firearm you should always err on the side of caution.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
I went to Brenneke website to check on slugs . According to them the rifling is for shotguns that aren't cylinder bore . that way when it passes through the choke it will compress . I always thought that those rifling were to twist the round in flight but I was wrong according to Brenneke  . He came out with his slug in 1898 .
If you could SAFELY shoot a slug through a 1887 ( modern Version ) Then the states that are slug guns only could have a lever action version .

[Montana Slim]

The 87 action design is quite strong, but I cannot speak to the quality of anyone's gun but my own. I've shot a number of slug & buckshot rounds (commercial, BP & smokeless handloads) through my IAC 87 with 20" barrel.

The pressure of a slug load is often lower than equivilent weight shot charges, due to the physics of hundreds of tiny lead shot filling the diameter of the bore as the round is fired.

The drawbacks I've found with my 87 are that the short barrel & large bead sight induces significant aiming error with slugs if trying to "snap shoot", particularly at medium or long distance. Also, I find the lever loop to be difficult to manipulate with anything but light-weight gloves. Cocking the hammer can be challenging in many hunting scenarios, but I find I can short-stroke the action to fully cock the piece while simultaneoulsy re-chambering the round. My gun is effectively a 6+1 capacity, so reloading speed in the field is not an issue (in my state, where I can fully load). IMO, a longer barrel and "normal" bead could make the 87 a viable hunting option.

Slim

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Montana Slim
Thank you for your input . I think if a Hunter lives in a state where  shotguns are the only legal gun to Deer Hunt with . The 1887 would be a lever lovers gun . The Chiaapa's have a 28 inch barrel for those who prefer a longer barrel . I plan on trying a few slugs in mine after winter . What brand of slugs did you fire through yours ?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Pettifogger
Thanks for the info on slugs . a 70-150 would be a real woods cannon . Wonder if starline would make the brass ? 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Planning on shooting a few slugs in my 87 . Hope it makes the cut for a Deer gun .

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   In one of my "Shooting & Fishing" reprints, there is brief comment regarding a
Win 1887 chambered for the .70-150 WCF: according to the the informant (A.C.Gould?),
this 1887 had a smooth bore, with a "ratchet-rifled" choke; this would indicate to me that
Winchester was developing a "Paradox-Styled" shotgun, probably for the British market,
that would put a relatively inexpensive short range, dangerous game gun into the hands of
those that would appreciate more firepower than the double-barreled arms then available.
I also recall mention of severe recoil, perhaps due to, among other things, the drop of the
buttstock. Not a bad idea, really, for hunting / following up the big cats in India and Africa;
the Paradox guns, and their knock-offs were very effective short range blasters, that would
also pattern OK with shot.
   I, for one, would like for an adventurous gunsmith to make one available for a write-up.
I believe that I saw mention of a chinese gun that was so converted, but that's it...

                  M.T.Marfield

[Tornado]

Coyote Cap built this one:
http://www.sassnet.com/mercantile/product626.html

[litl rooster]

I have shot buck n ball and 00 loads from mine. Till now i didn't take the bead sight into consideration for the disappointing accuracy. I would imagine a slug of any type would suffer regardless of the front site.  Regardless because of the bobbed hammer i wouldn't use mine in the field. Jmo...

[Oregon Bill]

Montana Slim: Curious about your various slug handloads, especially with BP. I have a Husqvarna SXS that I was going to make into a dedicated round ball gun, but am intrigued by the possibilities with the 1887 clone, including the option of having the muzzle threaded for a rifled choke tube. Thinking some Magtech brass cases, BP and a big old pumpkin ball might be some serious fun.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
I read a review on pw87 .  in the review they shot various 12 gauge loads , and yes they shot slugs in this review . According to the review they did pretty decent . The main problem was basically trigger pull . They shot out to 100 yards and the group was under 8 inches . sounds like a less than a 100 yard gun . I was on the Chiappa site and they have a 87 slug gun . And yes they had sights on it . Wonder how it will perform at 100 yards . Wonder why the instruction manual for the pw 87 has a picture of a long barreled version of the 87 instead of the 19 inch they sell ?