Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => STORM => Topic started by: Coffinmaker on August 15, 2022, 05:32:15 PM
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:) Hey There Hi There Ho There ;)
Actually, the title should be "Conversions Everyone??" I've been know to be infected with Conversionitis. I just plain like conversions of 19th Century Cap Guns, Colt Pattern. I've not been able to find a cure.
Of late, I have been playing with a pair of Pietta 1860s, which I converted to Suppository Shooters, with Kirst Konverter goodies. I actually started with this pair of guns way last year. Utilizing Kirst Konverter conversion goodies. Consists of a Recoil Plate with Loading Gate and a 45 Colt Cylinder. This conversion is almost a "Drop In." A loading channel must be cut in the OEM Recoil Shield for loading and unloading. VORSICHT!! Once you have cut the loading channel, you have manufactured a firearm per BATFE. Perfectly legal to do so for yourself. Perfectly illegal to do so for someone else. Disposal can be problematic.
The conversions have done very well in CAS match play. I'm really happy with the result. Recently however, there has been a really nifty development from Walt Kirst. Kirst Konverter has released a new Cylinder, chambered in 45 ACP. Absolutely the BIZ. I've been playing with both the .45 ACP cartridges and Cowboy 45 Special in this nifty new cylinder. It gives us some really outstanding versatility. Lots more loading/reloading options. The 45 ACP cartridge is legal CAS tender for all categories except Classique Cowperson. Classique requires a rimmed cartridge. Cowboy 45 Special anyone?? Perfect application.
The short chamber with long throat eliminates the "jump" between the case mouth and the throat for both 45 ACP and C45S rounds. Improves accuracy and reduces leading.
Right along with this new cylinder, Kirst has also introduce a new Two Step hand. The new hand eliminates the the conversion not quite locking into battery when slow cycling the action. Almost "Drop In" and takes just a tiny bit of fiddling although most will actually drop in. A really Trix wire Hand Spring on the two stepper will also be "bullet proof." Also quite easily changed to Coil Spring and Plunger.
When assembled, it is important to pay close attention to Barrel to Cylinder Gap. With cartridges in the gun, Barrel to Cylinder gap should be held to .003 or .004 to insure positive engagement of Hand To Star.
Dearly Beloved, Let Us Play!!!
PS: Tuolumne Lawman has posted some excellent Tin Types of his Kirst conversions and there are some of mine somewhere too (I just don't remember where)
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Remington Navy (small frame) with R&D conversion cylinder, Leech & Rigdon with an R&D conversion cylinder, 1851 Richards-Mason Navy factory conversion, 1851 Navy (unported) with Kirst conversion cylinder . . .
that's the only thing I shoot is conversions. Richards-Mason takes .38spcl, all the rest use .38LongColt.
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ASM 1860 Richards .44 Colt (Bought new, 1st year they came out, hung on to it)
Cimarron 1860 Richards 2 44 Colt
Cimarron Richards Mason 1851 7.5" 38 spl
Taylors Richards Mason 1851 5" 38 spl
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:) Allrighty Now :D
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5 '51 Richards-Masons (two 4 3/4", two 5 1/2" engraved, one 7 1/2"). Two 5 1/2" Type II's, a '61 and '60. One 7 1/2" '61 with Kirst and ejector. All .38's except the .44 Spcl '60. I shoot conversions about 90% of the time.
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Howdy converters,
I have an 1872 Open top. I know that it isn't technically a conversion. I love it and in my defense, I also have an ancient 1851 conversion in .38 S&W, a New Model Army in .45 Colt as well as a 3rd model Dragoon conversion (very heavy) in .45 Colt.
Rev. Chase
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Some call us conversion aficionados "Conversionistas" on the eastern banks of the Big Pond.
My regular match combo is a pair of custom RM converted Colt 1861 Navy replicas, .38 Long Colt cal. when I am competing in the Cattle Baron cat.
In Classic Cowboy I either use a pair of Centaure Long Cylinder Conversions (LCCs) with 4" barrel or a pair with 5,5" barrels, caliber is .44 Colt.
Long Johns Wolf
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Yes!! Conversions!! My first one was a "setup " by my favorite gun shop. I had money down on an ASM Navy. I called and told um I'd be by and pick it up and when I got there, they had this cool thing called a conversion kit . . . "Public Defender" I think is what it was called. They said they "figured " I'd be interested in it . . . ( reminds me of P.T. Barnum . . . one born every min.!!)!! COURSE I WAS! So, I left with the Navy and the kit!! ( turns out P.T. was right!!) This was about 1988 give er take. Anyway, after hundreds and hundreds of shots fired and not being able to figure a way to make "fatter" bullets, I gave up on it and put the cap cyl back in it . . . it was a Tack Driver!!! Haven't had another ".38" since!!!! ( THERE Mr. Barnum!!! Lol)
Fast forward to 2011 /12 I "rediscovered " conversions . . . in 45C for .44's (this I understood!!!)!!! So, my brand new Whitneyville and 1st Model Dragoons became 45 Dragoons with Kirst gated conversions, followed by an Army(P), then a Remington(P) with a Howell 6 shot drop cyl, then a another Army (P), an another Rem(P) with gated 5 shot cyl.( Equalizer from Kirst) an then a pair of Cimarron sourced Army's (U) one in .45C and the other in .45acp!! They're all a HOOT !!!
Mike
Dang!!! Forgot my ROA's !!! All 4 have 45C SS Kirsts!!
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I enjoy the conversions. I only have a few at the moment. I have four 51 Navy Conversions ( two 5.5 and two 7.5 in barrels) but want to add more in the near future. They are my favorite style of gun although I do have a pair of factory Cimarron Remington Sheriff Conversions that can be switched back and fourth to cap and ball.
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:) Absolutely ;)
Wolf, I gotta love it!! Conversionistas Unite!! At one time I had 11 of the ASM Conversions. Shot two of them as my Main Match guns for years and used the rest of them as a "Parts Repository" to keep the primary two running. Now I "Roll My Own."
Colt pattern Open Top conversions are my all time favorite Guns you betcha!!
Conversionistas we ARE!!
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Yeeehaw, Conversionistas.
My first one was an ASM 1860 in .44 Colt.
That one started the conversionitis.
There is no cure but a temporary relieve by liberating another conversion.
Nice disease, ha.
Long Johns Wolf
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YessSireeBob
Those conversions from ASM were absolutely GORGEOUS!! Not exactly authentic, as they were more of an 1861 (Colt didn't convert 1861s) and the only thing that made them an "1860" was the Army pattern Grip Set.
Mine were .38 Special and were the most accurate revolvers I have ever owned. Those guns would reliably shoot all six rounds into a ragged cloverleaf at 25 meters. I was heartbroken by the almost complete lack of quality control. Such a shame.
lay Safe Out There
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As someone who's never owned a conversion, or fired one, I'm curious if they play well with black powder?
Dave
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Mine, the trigger, bolt and cam were eventually replaced with Colt SAA parts. I've got a hand waiting to eventually go in, but it doesn't get shot much now.
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Mine work great with BP. That's all they see.
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I have a few Piettas. They are lots of fun.
AntiqueSledMan.
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:) Dave T ;)
As been mentioned (piling on), conversions play quite well with Black Powder. One must be mindful of the Barrel to cylinder gap but BP and APP are the only propellants mine have ever seen.
Play Safe Out There
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A pard from the German FROCS won the Frontier Cartridge cat. two weeks ago with a pair of Nedbal-ASM Tucker & Sherrard Dragoons fitted with drop-in conversion cylinders in .45 Colt.
Conversions are the way to go!
Long Johns Wolf
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There is no cure, only treatment. Which is just more guns. :D
Top, I started out with the Cimarron Open Top not-a-conversion. Then I had it fitted with TruIvory, then I had it engraved, then I had it fitted with real ivory. Center, then came the 1860 Type II, which got the Open Top's ivory. It is now a full fledged project gun. I had Jack Huntington cut the barrel to 5.5", the grip frame is on the way back with giraffe bone fitted and then it goes to the engraver. Bottom, factory 1851 Richards-Mason.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/IMG_0323b.jpg)
Then came the Dragoon with Kirst gated conversion.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_2503b.jpg)
Then there was this failed attempt, resulting in a non-functioning wall hanger.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/Barnes%20conversion%2001.jpg)
Then I got the fever and added several more. Starting with this 1860 Type II .38, converted into a pseudo 1861 Navy.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/001b.jpg)
One night I snagged both this Open Top .44Spl.....
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/030b.jpg)
.....and this 1851 conversion built off a Uberti percussion gun but with a relined barrel.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/036b.jpg)
In dealing with the above failed attempt, I learned that the Kirst parts fit the older Piettas better than the new ones, so I've also aged my older Pietta 1860 that will receive another Kirst gated conversion as soon as I cut the loading port.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/006b_5.jpg)
This week I've received two more older Pietta's that will also get converted. An 1860 and an 1851, both .44's.
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Beautiful revolvers CraigC !!
You're going to need a Whitneyville Dragoon in 44Mag !!!
Mike
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:) CraigC ;)
Actually, the more recent Pietta convert with Kirst Konverters quite well. I will strongly suggest however, with the Kirst and the 5 Shot conversion, you will want the new two step hand from Kirst. I believe the new 1860 converters are being shipped with the new hand and it results in better "carry-up" and lock-up.
PS: What happened with your non-functional "wall hanger??"
PSS: I realize this has nothing whatsoever to do with the subjects at hand, but, I really really like that Stump ;D
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Howdy all, esp. you Dragoon,
My 1851 conversion is one of those "Public Defenders". I had a gunsmith friend fit the parts and cut the loading channel. It's chambered for .38 S&W. As you and others discovered it won't shoot factory ammo with a darn. Enter the soft, swaged lead hollow based wadcutter. I'm still experimenting with loads, but I have found that once the charge has enough pressure to expand the base, my gun is a tack driver. The expanded base must grip the rifling and seal the bore while the front of the bullet must act like a nose riding cast rifle bullet.
That's my experience, FYI,
Rev. Chase
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Hey Rev!!
I hear ya!!! :) I have to admit I had a lot of fun with that "introduction" into conversions. My target in those days was a 55gal drum that appeared in a small drained lake on private property. So, it was good enough with "minute of 55 gal drum" accuracy at 30 yds or so.
The "modern conversions" though are so nice and definitely easier to install and of course you could drill and mount a Kirst plate if you felt the need but . . . I've never felt the need!!! Lol! And, the accuracy of the setup with today's fast twist rifling (appropriate for .45 cal bullets) makes for very accurate shooters! An example being my ROA's are inherently accurate out of the box ( they're long cyl Blackhawks, why wouldn't they be?!!) but my Dragoons are even better.
Hopefully, the new '60 in 45acp will be the same after some more familiarizing range sessions.
Mike
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:) CraigC ;)
Actually, the more recent Pietta convert with Kirst Konverters quite well. I will strongly suggest however, with the Kirst and the 5 Shot conversion, you will want the new two step hand from Kirst. I believe the new 1860 converters are being shipped with the new hand and it results in better "carry-up" and lock-up.
PS: What happened with your non-functional "wall hanger??"
PSS: I realize this has nothing whatsoever to do with the subjects at hand, but, I really really like that Stump ;D
My earlier Piettas from the mid 2000's function better with the original single tooth hand than the later engraved gun does with the Kirst two step hand. The conversion ring also fits perfectly against the frame. Even after "professional" installation (not Kirst).
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My Anderson .44 Colts
(https://i.imgur.com/RNFifmU.jpg)
My Uberti Richards Type IIs
(https://i.imgur.com/m5YdJGF.jpg)
MY Kirsts: Saber River .45 and 1851 .38 Colt
(https://i.imgur.com/jgAgALU.jpg)
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The 1860 and the Dragoon are my favorites:
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6QTSdBn/3rd-Model-Dragoon-and-1860.jpg)
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The 1860 and the Dragoon are my favorites:
That picture makes the 1860 look like a pocket pistol. ;D
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Yea, conversions are fun! Pietta New Model with Kirst .45 Konverter, miraculously shoots to point of aim at 25 yds. Pietta 1860 sheriff with a Howell's .45 converter. The brass rod is an onboard wedge and ejector tool. Jw
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A couple of Centaure an two Colt Walker conversions at the recent Meeting of the FROCS in July 2022.
Long Johns Wolf
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LJW, as ive said before, those guns are the real McCoy as far as Colt Conversions are concerned..they scream Old West 1870's- 1900 period.....wish someone here in the States would manufacture them like yours!! middletownbob
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I was always under the impression there were a number of gifted conversion artists in the U.S.A.
Long Johns Wolf
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i guess there used too be, but really expensive, i dont think now there is any one making them in production that are affordable...I have an Uberti 1851 Navy that i love but they dont capture that museum quality that yours have...also Rem type conversions by Uberti are not that historical compared to what to had made...my opinion
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:) Well . . . KRAP ;)
Decided my 1860 Conversions went so well, I just had to have them with Navy Pattern barres, look like 1851s even if in .44. What a dismal disappointment. The fit of the Kirst 1851 Ejector assembly fitment is ABYSMAL. WOBBLE all over the map. I haven't figured a way to make them align correctly and not wobble. What a disappointment. Boo Hiss!!
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I had to cut a piece of neoprene to fit under the rear tab of one to keep it from wobbling. I've often thought about drilling and tapping a hole for a set screw to take up the wobble but this works so I just don't bother. I'm assuming you don't have one for the wrong brand barrel assy.
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:) Marshal ;)
Nope. I have the correct Ejector Assemblies. I did try a fitted Brass Washer under the rear tab, which helped but didn't fix the problem.
With a lot of "shimming" under the rear tab, the wobble will stop but then the Ejector is at the wrong angle for the Bore Axis and looks wonky.
Plus, the Thumb Buttons are too large.
(mumble mumble mumble)
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Maybe you could put a set screw in both tabs and adjust the angle using the two of them against each other.
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My .45 acp Kirst Conversion
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I have:
a pair of Anderson (Pre-AFF) .44 Colt 1860 conversions
A pair of Kirst/Pietta .45 Colt 1860 conversions
A pair of Kirst/Pietta .38 Long Colt 1851 conversions.
A pair of Uberti No 3 Americans in .44 Russian
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:) Will Wingam ;)
Well heck, 2022 re-visted. As a matter of fact, I wound up doing just that. I drilled and tapped both front and real tabs for the Navy pattern ejector assembly and using #10-32 set screws in tension against each other. Worked a treat.
Also, it seems there has been a later modification of the Kirst Ejector Assembly to "hopefully" eliminate the lousy alignment and wobble. I haven't had one "in hand" so I don't know how well it works.
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Glad to heat that did the trick. You have a photo of that?
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I've just drilled and installed pins to "start over" if that makes sense.