Repairs on Ruger Old Army?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I Have two SS 5 1/2" barrelled Ruger Old Armys.

A friend noticed that one was allowing the cylinder to free spin when the cylinder should have been locked.

There is a slight line on the cylinder where the hand rubbed as the cylinder spun.

As I am not a gunsmith, I am facing dropping this off to have the hand (or whatever is wrong) repaired. I am told I would have to replace the faux bone grips and shortened 'ramrod' that attaches to the loading lever. Thank God all the original parts are here!

Not a big thing to repace any of the grips or the rammers with the original pieces ...

But is there another Ruger repair person who people here are pleased with?

[August]

Most of us call the active part of the ratchet mechanism at the back of the cylinder the hand. Unless obviously chipped or broken, this is not your problem.  Line around cylinder is normal on Roooooger design and not significant to your problem.

But, the cylinder latch (what the rest of the world calls the 'bolt') is what locks the cylinder in battery position.  If I understand you correctly, the cylinder is sometimes rotating, or failing to lock up, when the pistol is fully cocked == am I close?

If so, the latch springs need to be replaced.  They are housed in the bottom of the grip frame.  Over time, I've found they become compressed and dirty -- especially on black powder gunz.  Or, another way to say it is they wear out.

You can do this yourself by getting new springs from Midway (or other suppliers).  There are excellent, simple videos on the Rooooger site that will show you how to do this.

While you're in there, polish the little (itty bitty easy to lose) pawl that fits over the spring and gently polish the opening to the hole that the spring and pawl ride in to be sure it doesn't hang the spring up.

[Pettifogger]

As noted the line around the cylinder is typical Ruger.  Easy to test if your bolt is operating correctly.  Does the cylinder rotate when the hammer is all the way down?  Does it rotate when the hammer is fully cocked?  Does it rotate when the hammer is at half cock?  If the answers are no, no, and yes you are fine.  Newer Rugers don't have a half-cock so your friend might not know anything about the old three screw design.  (Friends are often dangerous.)  The bolt spring in the ROA is not a coil spring and plunger.  Again, the ROA has a unique design.  It is a wire spring that hooks into a hole in the side of the frame and bears directly on the bolt.  It is either broke or it isn't.  Doesn't get stuck with fouling.  The hand/pawl is what rotates the cylinder and engages the holes on the back of the cylinder.  I assume you are talking about the cylinder locking bolt.  Why would you "have" to replace the stag grips?  If you like them, why change them?  Also, how do you know that the rammer is shortened?  People often lengthen the rammer so they can use smaller charges of powder.  However, I have never seen anyone shorten a rammer.

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[WaddWatsonEllis]

Pettifogger et al;

I will try to answer you questions as the were written,

First, the When the hammer is on the cylinder, it allows the cylinder to rotate about 10-12 degrrees off center with the barrel
...

Second, when the hammer is at 'half cock', or almost down the cylinder spins free.

Third,in any position, the hand is not in sight on the affected ROA. In The unaffected ROA, the hand can plainly be seen in the space below the cylinder, crossing over from the frame to the semicircular 'stop' on the cylinder.

And Pettifogger, the reason I am whining about changing it is that I have heard from many sourches, including Ruger, that any non'Ruger' part or

On the affected ROA, the 'hand never shows. Not in the cocked, the half cock or the hammer down posititions.

Pettifogger, I am whining about changing it back to original Ruger grips and rammer because I have heard from many sources that Ruger will put original Ruger parts back on it for legal reasons and then charge for said parts ... and in some cases the owner got the modified parts back, in some cases not.


I pulled out the original rammers (and grips)and you are correct; the original owner put in shorter rammers so that he oculd get more powder in ..

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I went to the Ruger Repair site and they have a free Transfer Bar installation for just about every Vaquero and ... but it is not free for the Bisley and Old Army models.

Does that mean that if I send this pistol in, I would not have to have the transfer bar installed?

Serial number is 148-08XXX.

I am flummoxed.

I called the Prescott AZ office (New Hampshire was closed for the day ) the customer service person at Prescott had never heard/was not familiar at all with the Old Army model. She stated that they only did black weapons (my words ... I believe she stated that they only do 'automatics'). Suddenly I felt very, very old. I thanked her for her help and hung up .... I had wasted my dime on thier long sistance line only to be told she had never heard of what I had been on hold waiting to talk to her about ..... ***sigh***

[Pettifogger]

Wadsworth, I don't know where to begin.  I don't want to sound unkind, but printed words often sound harsh.  Please don't take offense.  You have apparently not read the post by August or myself as you keep getting the terminology completely wrong.  When trying to help with gun problems I try to be as precise as possible and read people's problems literally.  I had to read your next to last post twice before I realized you are still calling the cylinder locking bolt the hand.  TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT functions.  The hand is at the rear of the cylinder and rotates the cylinder.  The bolt is under the cylinder sticking out of the top of the frame and locks the cylinder in place.  The ROA is a very simple mechanism.  If the bolt is down that usually means the spring has become disconnected from its anchor in the frame or is broke.  Simply remove the gripframe and look in there and the problem should be obvious.  If you are going to shoot an ROA you have to learn how to take it apart for cleaning.  Take off the grips, cock the hammer and put a pin in the hammer strut to keep the mainspring compressed.  Then simply remove the five gripframe screws.  The lady at Ruger was probably confused because there is NO TRANSFER bar in a cap and ball revolver.  The hammer hits the cap directly.  The bolt spring is a three or four dollar part.  Postage shipping the gun to and from Ruger for such a minor repair will cost you a fortune.  Spend the money on a set of hollow-ground screwdrivers and take the gun apart and put it together a couple of times.  You'll be a cap and ball shooter in no time.

Look at this diagram.  What you want is part number 6.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0/sid=21/schematicsdetail/Old_Army
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=684386

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Absolutely no offense taken .... my knowledge of the interiror of guns has always been that if it doesn't work, take it to the armorer and he will fix it ... and he actually preferred fixing it to having some nimrod like me learn on His gun ...

The spring seems to be on backorder at both Midway and Brownells.

I took the grips off the gun to replace them in preparation to sending them to Ruger ....couldn't see anything out of place ... the mainspring looked fine, and I could not see into the pistol to check anything more ....

[Pettifogger]

I see you are in California.  There are thousands of SASS members in Ca.  Find a pard that shoots cap and ball and I'm sure he will show you how to take the ROA apart.  It is one of the simplest mechanisms made.  If you can operate a screwdriver you can take it apart.  Like I said, if you are going to shoot it you HAVE to know how to take it apart to give it a periodic cleaning.  The ROA is even easier to take apart than a regular Ruger Vaquero because there is no spring loaded plunger in the trigger guard operating the bolt (therefore there is nothing to align when putting the grip frame back on) and the trigger return spring and plunger are behind the trigger and visible from the outside so you can easily make sure it is installed correctly.  It is much easier to put together than a Vaquero.  You don't really even have to remove the internal parts for cleaning.  Once the grip frame is off you can use brake cleaner and some compressed air to blow the gunk out.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Pettifogger,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I was just about to give up and send it to Ruger ... but your persistaence about how simple the gun was designed got me going ....

I had already had it apart twice, and both times was left with the same results as originally

I was about to write a post of resignation, when a thought came into mind... what if the spring was designed to lift the bolt rather than lower it... so I took it apart AGAIN (Its ten o'clock PM and I have been working on this for three hours ... no dinner and getting a little woozy from lack of food). So back to the workbench again, and this time I set the spring to RAISE the bolt (I hope I have got part name right this time).

And guess what ? It works!  WhooYA

And like you said, I jsut saved myself a passelfull of money! I think I'll go out and pay a bill!

[Pettifogger]

Raise your right hand and repeat after me, "I am now an official cap and ball shooter!"

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Pettifogger,

Thanks for giving me the moral support to tear into my ... I was really terrified... felt like a deer in the headlights ....

Working on the pistol reminded me that Mr Ruger believed in the 'KISS' principle and designed every Ruger I ever had with that in mind ... I thought it was going to be like working on my Pietta or some '50s English coupe that was overdesigned to the max ...

But on the way I will be like Jack Lemon in 'Some Like it Hot' ... but my mantra will be 'I'm a Black Powder guy ....'