Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Niederlander on December 28, 2023, 08:58:34 PM
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Gentlemen, Does anyone know what the dimensions and construction details were for the original .45-70 government ammo crates? I'd like to build one.
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Perhaps some photos will help ? :)
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That's cool! Any source for the measurements?
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That may be out there in cyber land.... I'll surf around some...
I think I could extrapolate the internal box dimensions by the cartridge boxes in the pack.
Then assuming you are using 3/4" dimensional lumber, the outside Dim's.
I come up with 14" wide X 16" long X 6 3/4 " deep, outside dim's (use 3/4" Top & bottom = 8.25 " outside)
allowing for 44 boxes of 20 (880 rounds tight). this an extrapolation.
You might want to cut a bit of + slack ( a tad oversize allowing for thickness of the boxes...
However, if you aren't planning to pack as the photos show, and just a prop box the above Dim's are adequate. (880 rounds and quite heavy)
1000 rd. stenciled on the original crate... I calculated @ 880 rounds. :-\
Maybe St. George has a response, Robert?
Another Guy you might ask to is Hayes Otoupalik
Military Collectibles and Historical Americana
Phone: 1-406-549-4817
FYI... if you are planning to finger joint the corners. allow accordingly :)
hope that helps...I'll like to see it when complete :)
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:) Aw Heck ;)
I gotta Olympia Brewing Co. Beer Crate that would almost double. Unfortunately, it way deeper and (sniff, sob) Empty (Boo Hissssss) :'(
I am aware that is of no help to the OP, but it's Friday morning and really quiet around here and I'm some bored. So There ;D
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Major 2, those photos are outstanding. Thanks for finding and posting them. I admire your calculating skills as well.
Dave
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Several years back we had a member who built a few. I think he shoots with the Illinois GAF group I think his name is Doug Stone. But there were lots of pictures of his gear and camp. It was either on here or NCOWS.
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Would that have been Doug Strong? He shot over here at the Brigade Muster once.
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Just heard from Doug Strong. He linked me too photos and description of an original box that came from Bannermans. Dimensions are listed at 13 1/2 x 16 1/2 x 8 1/4. Your extrapolated measurements were impressively close!
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;D I was allowing a bit of scrouge to account for the thickness of each paste board box of 20rd..
It will be cool to see what you come up with :)
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Dont forget to build with finger joints, and add the appropriate amount of wood at the ends to accomodate that….
I count 13 fingers, but I could be offf….
Aaaaaand is it nailed down with a hinge or screwed down with a hinge?
Or do my eyes only want to see a hinge?
I cannot recall what famous battle involved guys unable to open ammunition crates because they were screwed down And only one supply seargent had the only screwdriver…..
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That may be out there in cyber land.... I'll surf around some...
I think I could extrapolate the internal box dimensions by the cartridge boxes in the pack.
Then assuming you are using 3/4" dimensional lumber, the outside Dim's.
I come up with 14" wide X 16" long X 6 3/4 " deep, outside dim's (use 3/4" Top & bottom = 8.25 " outside)
allowing for 44 boxes of 20 (880 rounds tight). this an extrapolation.
You might want to cut a bit of + slack ( a tad oversize allowing for thickness of the boxes...
However, if you aren't planning to pack as the photos show, and just a prop box the above Dim's are adequate. (880 rounds and quite heavy)
1000 rd. stenciled on the original crate... I calculated @ 880 rounds. :-\
Maybe St. George has a response, Robert?
Another Guy you might ask to is Hayes Otoupalik
Military Collectibles and Historical Americana
Phone: 1-406-549-4817
FYI... if you are planning to finger joint the corners. allow accordingly :)
hope that helps...I'll like to see it when complete :)
I did mention that ;D
I believe you are thinking Battle of Isandlwana
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It is Doug Strong. A friend and I built a couple, we used dimension lumber. They turned out ok. I had a lot of trouble with the stencils.
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I don't believe I'll do the corners like that. My crate will not be anywhere near that accurate. Of course these crates are late production. I'd like to see one of the early ones.
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Ah my Dear Major2
Yes, i see in retrospect, after changing into my other retrospectacles, that you did!
My appologies!
Seriously, I have got to get my butt down to the optowatchamacallim and get new bespectacled.
I have literally 7 pair of various ages I am cycling thru and none of them are quite right….
Prf mumbles
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Not at all, Sir! no apologies necessary, :D
Ned, the one pictured (1st two) photos above is Span-Am era.
The 3rd photo with hinged lid is 1888, marked Bannerman.
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I believe the top two (span am era) the cartons are laid flat... if I am seeing correctly, that is 5x2x10 (box count) which would be 1000 rounds... this looks like a fun project any way you stack em!!
Where would you get stencils like that? I suppose you could print out paper and cut it out with an exacto knife to make your own stensils... the corners are outstanding!
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:) Crates and Barrels ;)
An old Cabinet Maker (me) observes that "All of the Above" appear to have been originally screwed shut. Unfortunately, during the appropriate time frame, Pneumatic Nail guns were in somewhat short supply.
The Bannermans crate also appears to have been nailed shut after an initial opening and shows evidence of have been pried open with a flat blade screwdriver. Normally when one needs one's munitions, one needs said munitions "Right Freeking Now" or something to that effect.
Harkening back to my Olympia Brewing Co. Beer Crate, It is with sadness I remember many fine "tours" through the Brewery. Alas, Olympia is no more and I do so miss the Artesians whom brewed that golden elixir. Oh Well.
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Slight request for the plane to divert to Cuba.
Professor, i would suggest boxing up those old spectacles and donate them. I work in chemistry and we get safety glasses that are prescription if needed once a year. About 25 years ago i discovered the Lion’s Club will collect these Nd the get refurbished and they go to places in the world where people just have to deal with poor vision. I know other organizations do this as well, I just know about the Lion’s club first hand. College Roommate works all over Africa and mentioned he has seen it first hand. Conservatively i think i have sent 700+ pairs their way and have a box of ~90in my office i need to send. They can make a difference.
Plane back on course.
Stenciling is a pain in the tuckus. I would suggest using a processor to block your lettering then make it a mirror image. Print and invert on the box. Treat with acetone to transfer the print and a quick coat of the lacquer of your choice will keep it there. There are numerous youtube videos that lay out the process.
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https://www.stencilease.com/products/military-letter-and-number-stencil-sets?variant=11692409815084&msclkid=b86e19d928641f81259a7c4964e9c7fa&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MV3-SE-Performance%20Max&utm_term=4580909052537562&utm_content=Evergreen
https://www.stencilease.com/products/caslon-number-stencil-set-value-pack?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=eae014369&pr_rec_pid=4668999499878&pr_ref_pid=4655281930342&pr_seq=uniform
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Harkening back to my Olympia Brewing Co. Beer Crate, It is with sadness I remember many fine "tours" through the Brewery. Alas, Olympia is no more and I do so miss the Artesians whom brewed that golden elixir. Oh Well.
I live not too far away from the old Olympia breweries (located oddly enough in Olympia, Washington). There is the original brick brewery and the "new" brewery -- both long closed down. On moonlit nights, though, if you're reeeaaaly quiet, you can still see the Artesians wandering around the grounds in small groups. Sometimes they're near the old artesian wells where the water came from ("It's the water and a lot more.") They're reminiscing about the old days and wishing that the breweries would open back up. "I seen 'em!"
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Played around a bit in the shop today (after no real shop for 2 years!). Best guess it would take a Saturday to work out details and make the first such ammo crate. Sunday could be spent making 20 more, since the jigs etc would be done. If anyone actually makes one, they might want to make several. (I can see it now at the muster: someone sitting at the rifle line surrounded by crates of ammo.
I'm curious how the stocks of spare ammo were carried by troops on the march. Each guy was issued a quantity, but (especially after the LBH) was extra ammo carried in the wagons/pack saddles, and how was it packed?
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:) Long Walker ;)
The Answer is (D) All of the Above. Troops were, and still are, issued an initial "combat load." Usually 60 to 100 rounds. With the advent of Magazine fed guns, most troops started the day with all they could carry. A unit on the move also had one or more supply wagons with necessities and ammo. In rough county operations a unit would also have several pack mules, one of which was loaded with ammo.
In south East Asia, the initial issue was Three 20 or 30 round Magazines plus One in the Rifle. Most of us also scrounged up several "extra" magazine pouches and hauled all we could carry. One can never have "too much" ammo. My experience was not however, absolute. Lots of different units. Also, I moved to Door Gunner and found happiness is a Belt Fed Weapon you betcha.
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Dont forget to build with finger joints, and add the appropriate amount of wood at the ends to accomodate that….
I cannot recall what famous battle involved guys unable to open ammunition crates because they were screwed down And only one supply seargent had the only screwdriver…..
Isandlwana.
Books
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My Striker's wife could probably cut us a stencil
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Find someone with one of the Cricut machines that can make stencils. Ask at a Hobby Lobby, those machines are quite neat.
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We had one at my former job20. I might be able to use it by going in to visit.
I did make a set from somebody on here, several years ago.