uniform questions

[sharps54]

OK, i am working on the background for my Quartermaster SGT and what I would like to do is track his history from enlistment to retirement and be able to play differing timeframes of his enlistment at shoots depending on what firearms I want to shoot that day. He will enlist in the latter part of the Civil War which brings us to the question:
How long were the uniforms from the Civil War still used by regulars? I know there was a regulation change in 1872, up to that point would the CW era uniform be pretty accurate? I have started my research and see where little changes were done here and there but I wonder if the basic CW uniform would look OK for a trooper up to 1872.
A second question is regarding the "economy uniforms" sold by Fall Creek Sutler here http://fcsutler.com/fcunifeconomy.asp, anyone have any experience with them? I know you get what you pay for but would these be OK for CAS style shooting and not embarrass my GAF brothers.
Thanks in advance!

[ColonelFlashman]

OK, i am working on the background for my Quartermaster SGT and what I would like to do is track his history from enlistment to retirement and be able to play differing timeframes of his enlistment at shoots depending on what firearms I want to shoot that day. He will enlist in the latter part of the Civil War which brings us to the question:
How long were the uniforms from the Civil War still used by regulars? I know there was a regulation change in 1872, up to that point would the CW era uniform be pretty accurate? I have started my research and see where little changes were done here and there but I wonder if the basic CW uniform would look OK for a trooper up to 1872.
A second question is regarding the "economy uniforms" sold by Fall Creek Sutler here http://fcsutler.com/fcunifeconomy.asp, anyone have any experience with them? I know you get what you pay for but would these be OK for CAS style shooting and not embarrass my GAF brothers.
Thanks in advance!

There's a little thing called "Wear-out" in the Military back then.
The uniforms are issued till worn out & stocks of them are depleted.
This was usually done before any newly adopted uniforms were issued & uniforms were only issued every 6 years.

[sharps54]

There's a little thing called "Wear-out" in the Military back then.
The uniforms are issued till worn out & stocks of them are depleted.
This was usually done before any newly adopted uniforms were issued & uniforms were only issued every 6 years.

Col.,
I am understand what you are saying, kind of like the phasing in of the new PTs and ACUs the Army has done in the last decade. I wouldn't expect that by 1 Jan 1873 every soldier would have all the uniforms and accouterments required in the 1872 reg. I guess I should have phrased my question differently; was the 1872 reg. change the first major one after the Civil War?

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[ColonelFlashman]

Col.,
I am understand what you are saying, kind of like the phasing in of the new PTs and ACUs the Army has done in the last decade. I wouldn't expect that by 1 Jan 1873 every soldier would have all the uniforms and accouterments required in the 1872 reg. I guess I should have phrased my question differently; was the 1872 reg. change the first major one after the Civil War?

As I remember it, yes, looking @ the one Reference book I've @ hand, the Ogden books, the first major uniform change took place in 1872.
The Eastern stationed troops got everything new, just about right off the wickett as it became available, had to show the Best face for the Foreigners & Tax payers, don'tcha know.
Then the trickle down effect took place for the Western stationed troops, Allowing of course for the Wear-out period.
There is a rather famous photo of an Arty unit taken in 1898 & they are still wearing 1860 Arty Shell Jackets, w/ the Red Piping, while firing their field guns.

[Major Matt Lewis]

Flashy,

How the heck are you doing?  Longtime no hear.

[ColonelFlashman]

Flashy,

How the heck are you doing?  Longtime no hear.

Well, that's a long story, if you've the time for it & one of the reasons for not being about so much.

[sharps54]

As I remember it, yes, looking @ the one Reference book I've @ hand, the Ogden books, the first major uniform change took place in 1872.
The Eastern stationed troops got everything new, just about right off the wickett as it became available, had to show the Best face for the Foreigners & Tax payers, don'tcha know.
Then the trickle down effect took place for the Western stationed troops, Allowing of course for the Wear-out period.
There is a rather famous photo of an Arty unit taken in 1898 & they are still wearing 1860 Arty Shell Jackets, w/ the Red Piping, while firing their field guns.

Col.,
Thanks! Since I am on a limited buget to start with I figured I would find a fairly genric uniform to let me play a soldier at the local matches. I'll add fancy dress uniforms, different hats, different jackets with ranks, etc. (for the different time periods in "my" career") down the road. Now I guess I will start checking the CW reenactor sites to see if I can find out anything about the Fall Creek "econo" uniforms.

[Dr. Bob]

sharps54,

If you will go to the GAF web site, you will fnd the uniform regs listed.  All are listed, but not all are available.  The 1872 Regulations are all there.

[sharps54]

sharps54,

If you will go to the GAF web site, you will fnd the uniform regs listed.  All are listed, but not all are available.  The 1872 Regulations are all there.

Dr. Bob,
Thanks, I have read those over at the GAF site. I guess I just wanted to confirm before I started spending money.

[St. George]

The rank of Post Quartermaster Sergeant finally came about in 1884.

The Army had 80 positions for them - and promotion was exceedingly slow after the war, with many former brevetted officers now serving in the ranks.

It wasn't at all uncommon for a 'thirty-year man' to finally leave the Service and still wear slick sleeves - except for his Service Stripes, since the Army actually 'was' home.

Now - as far as the portrayal of a Supply Sergeant may be concerned - you'd have greater chance for earning a little rank over time, since the rank belonged to the Commander and as long as you stayed with the outfit and did your job - you'd keep the rank and pay.

Food for thought...

At any rate - buy 'good' quality clothing and equipment, since it'll pay for itself, over time.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[sharps54]

Thanks St. George,
I am slowly putting together a "career path" for my "thirty year man" as you call him. (Since you mention it was thirty the mandatory retirement for an enlisted soldier? I know there are instances of officers that served from the Civil War through the Spanish American War but I'm not sure how many enlisted men could say the same) As far as I can tell an enlisted man wouldn't have started in the Quartermaster Corps (unless maybe you were a saddler or ferrier) and am assuming the Co. Quartermaster SGTs we promoted from within the ranks. I plan on getting him into the job of Quartermaster sometime after the Civil War when he and his unit have relocated out west.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Sharps!

Fall Creek's economy uniforms are very good for the price.  I have quite a few of their things [I live 'bout 25 min. from them] like hats, a Sack Coat, boots, and other things and they're NOT cheapo junk.  I'm getting very good wear from them.  A reminder: if you buy their boots, DO get the heel plates when they're purchased.  I didn't get them 'cause I'd heard about how they can damage floors, so I stayed with the plain leather heels.  I wore them for a week at the 2006 NCOWS Nationals last year and I'm STILL amazed how fast the leather heels wore - 'specially since I was nearly always on grass, dirt, or gravel!  Makes you really appreciate synthentic materials and Vibram (tm) soles! 

[sharps54]

Steel Horse Bailey,
Thanks for the feed back on Fall Creek. I don't mind spending money for quality but for most products there is a point where you start spending money for the name or for minor details. Right now this uniform's purpose will be to let me shoot at SASS/NCOWS events as a soldier. It needs to look pretty authentic and it needs to be durable enough to wear to the range for a days shooting, I won't be sleeping in it or spending a weekend reenacting in it or entering any costume contests with it. Sounds like FCS's uniforms will work for what I need. 

[St. George]

The term - 'thirty-year-man' was given to those long-serving soldiers who'd dedicated their lives to serving the flag.

It was probably most popular in the '30's when unemployment was so high that men enlisted for the food and shelter that the military offered, but it carried on for generations of soldiers, though thanks to things like mandatory promotion (up or out), today - it's doubtful that many will even see the magic 20.

That said - the system of the time did 'not' follow that of today's - not by a long shot.

You didn't enlist into a related field - like, say, an armorer of today - with hope of becoming the Supply Sergeant - since there were no career paths to follow.

You enlisted - served where told, unless you 'did' have some sort of training - as would a Farrier - and then, as you fell in love with the Romance of the Service - you maneuvered a position through merit and ability.

Your idea to eventually get that position is a good one - since it will allow your Impression a more varied career to build a backstory from.

Post-Civil War, there were large numbers of soldiers who'd 'stayed on' - though far larger numbers enlisted under false names in order to reach the gold fields out West without starving.

They were still serving as late as the Spanish-American War - with some very senior Indian Wars veterans still serving as late as the Great War.

If you read the back pages in both 'The Barracks' as well as 'The Historical Society Forum' - you'll find some good tips and some leads for more of your outfit.

Don't just leap and buy the first thing you see in Army Blue - there are a number of suppliers and some interesting reports about their offerings, so if you choose wisely - you won't waste money on those things that merely catch your eye.

Again - Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Trailrider]

Another point...  Since soldiers were issued clothing and had the costs deducted from their pay, those who had uniform pieces left over from service in the Federal Army during the War, often used them in the field so as to preserve the newer clothing for garrison duty (parades, guard mount, inspections, etc.).  Same thing with officers, pretty much.

A quartermaster sergeant might not have gone to the field much, except perhaps on a major expedition (Big Horn & Yellowstone, persuit of the Nez Perce, etc.), so might have stayed in better uniform.  Still, if he had a lot of fatigue duty to supervise (unloading, storing supplies, etc.) he might have resorted to a less-than-brand-new uniform.

You sort of have to decide what you are portraying, and go with that as you can afford it.  I personally think field or fatique duty uniforms are easier to formulate, as one only has to guard against "forward anachronisms" (i.e., uniforms that hadn't been adopted yet, rather than equipment that had been previously utilized.

[sharps54]

Thanks for all the information so far! Trailrider, I am looking at initially doing a field uniform for right after the Civil War (so I can shoot C&B) as a private, that way I can start simple and then add to it.

[Trailrider]

Thanks for all the information so far! Trailrider, I am looking at initially doing a field uniform for right after the Civil War (so I can shoot C&B) as a private, that way I can start simple and then add to it.

Well, in that case, so far as uniform clothing is concerned, any CW stuff will do nicely.  After 1872, the uniform regs changed, but, as I said, a lot of CW uniform articles were used in the field until they wore out.  The potential for anachronism will only come up regarding the guns.  For CAS you won't be using "regulation" small arms anyway.  A Henry Repeating Rifle (NOT Henry Magnums, etc.) replica or M1866 Winchester or even a '73 could have been purchased by a private.  Perhaps he was a higher rank during the War and bought himself the expensive rifle.  The C&B pistols, especially Remington New Army (aka M1858) or Colt's M1860 .44's would be totally authentic (except for the Italian proof marks  ).

Good shooting!

[Reb Tyree]

Sharps 54,

I have bought uniforms items from Fall Creek.  I also use Blockade Runner who also has good prices.  You can't go wrong with either one.

[sharps54]

Reb Tyree,
Thanks for the sutler information, I am still fleshing out my persona's history and once I have a better outline I will be making some purchases.

Trailrider,
I was thinking I should be able to get away with Civil War uniforms at first thanks for the vote of confidence. I still need to flesh out my "history", I'm not sure when he enlists and that will play a big part in his rank after the war. I am planning on 1860 Colts and a coachgun with hammers for "period" weapons off the bat. Due to budget issues (and the fact I can't use an issued rifle other then a Spencer in SASS anyhow) I will probably buy a "pre-owned" Rossi 1892 or Marlin off the bat for the rifle. Once I can afford it I will buy a replica of an early Winchester (Henry, Improved Henry, or 1873), I will then use the other rifle as a backup or loaner.

I have another question, this one regarding footware. I have read that the Jefferson Bootee was the issue to enlisted cavalry during the CW but they were also allowed to buy boots. From what I can tell sometime after the war the cavalry was actually issued boots. I know the big regulation change was 1872 (with Missouri Boot & Shoe offering the 1872 pattern http://missouribootandshoe.tripod.com/id6.html) can I get away with using the 1872 boots from Missouri Boot & Shoe with my pants worn over the boots for earlier periods? I don't mind spending money on good boots but I would like to find a pattern that can pass for the widest number of years. I am thinking the end of the CW to late 1880's early 1890's. Any recommendations (inclding specific companies or additional features) would be appreciated.

[Reb Tyree]

Sharps 54,

Once again I'll say Fall Creek, you can have your boots made for you.  I have had a pair of stove pipe boots from Fall Creek and a pair of cavalry boots from Brigade Runner.  Both are great boots.  Spend your money on good boots, don't waste it on cheap ones!!!!